BTCC 2008 - Croft, Rounds 13, 14 & 15.

[VX_Rules]

Discussion for us ArmChair fans this weekend.

First practice is in, Turkington on top, and the Robertshaws both with mechanical issues, same as Doyle.

[SEATFreak]

Shedden first in Practice 1 with 1:26.687. Pipping Turks in second with 1:26.712 who finished ahead of Jase and DT who third and fourth with 1:26.767 and a 1:26.786 respectively. Chilton did a 1:26.809 to go fifth. One place ahead of Mat Neal in sixth who did 1:26.995. I don't know if it means much but the top 6 are all in 1:26.

Gio way down in fourteenth with a 1:27.903.

Theirs hope clearly for a decent SEAT display tomorrow with that kind of overwhellming dominance over VXR! You won't know wha hit you VXR_Rules! :p :

[Mp3 Astra]

Discussion for us ArmChair fans this weekend.

I'm not an armchair fan. I'm a BTCC fan.

[VX_Rules]

:P For those BTCC fans who cant make croft this weekend :D

[SEATFreak]

Y'know, you guys are not gonna belive this but for the first time I can see something good stirring in not just those Leons but the balance of power even perhaps among the Manufacturers. Third in both sessions for Jase and fourth for DT in Free Practice 2 is pretty phenomenal with Gio is left eating rubber way down in 14th in Free Practice 2. Even the Motorbase drivers, Andrew Jordan and Stephen Jelley was faster than Gio in Free Practice 2. Because let's be honest; Giovanardi just doesn't be in 14th without having others around him be faster. Giovanardi just doesn't do slow.

Qualifying about to start....

[Mp3 Astra]

And before anyone gets a lap in, we have a red flag!

[SEATFreak]

I hope Ian Harrison dosn't complain about anything because it will be dangerous having so much bull around when theirs a red flag! :p :

[SEATFreak]

And before anyone gets a lap in, we have a red flag!

According to Live Timing, Erkut is in the wall....

But we are off and running now.

[VX_Rules]

You shouldnt get ur hopes up so easily seatfreak.

[SEATFreak]

You shouldnt get ur hopes up so easily seatfreak.

When I am all down I am accused of being overly pessimistic. When I am up and positive I am accused of getting my hopes up.

I have never known where I stood.

What should I be? Does anyone know?

EDIT: Incredible! With just 4 mins to go, Jase has just come up from 7th to second with a massively improved time of 1:26.027 from about 1:26.391.

[Mp3 Astra]

Shedden fails ride height test AGAIN! He was second. He now loses all his laps with 7 minutes to go.

[VX_Rules]

You should knwo anyones luck can change in an instant and it's going to rain tommorrow...

[SEATFreak]

...and it's going to rain tommorrow...

Well, I typed in North Yorkshire on http://www.uk.weather.com and sadly their is 70% chance of precipitation with a temp of 13 degrees celcius. But I don't know why but I still pray it doesn't.

Qualification finished btw and Shedden pushes Jase down a place to third with DT on pole.

[dc10]

Yup, definitely wet weather forecast for tomorrow.
Are the VXRs sandbagging? Dont have access to practise times.
Are the races being televised anywhere before Sunday on ITV4?

[Mp3 Astra]

Yup, definitely wet weather forecast for tomorrow.
Are the VXRs sandbagging? Dont have access to practise times.
Are the races being televised anywhere before Sunday on ITV4?

Well, ITV are showing the whole day (apart from race 1) live.

Turner gets pole with Shedden splitting the SEATs in second, with Plato third.

[SEATFreak]

Yup, definitely wet weather forecast for tomorrow.

Still, I can look on two bright sides. 1)One thing I can get is a SEAT weather-proof jacket I have had an eye for buying and B) I read on the weather site theirs a 91% of humidity if you type "Richmond" and 96% if you type "Darlington" so it ain't as if it is gonna be a cold wintery shower.

[VkmSpouge]

Qualifying Times:
1. Darren Turner SEAT 1m25.825
2. Gordon Shedden Honda +0.101
3. Jason Plato SEAT +0.202
4. Colin Turkington BMW +0.348
5. Matt Neal Vauxhall +0.401
6. Tom Onslow-Cole Vauxhall +0.413
7. Matt Jackson BMW +0.429
8. Tom Chilton Honda +0.544
9. Adam Jones SEAT +0.663
10. Steven Kane BMW +0.736
11. Mike Jordan Honda +0.738
12. Fabrizio Giovanardi Vauxhall +0.748
13. Stephen Jelley BMW +1.002
14. Rob Collard BMW +1.048
15. Harry Vaulkhard Chevrolet +1.943
16. Jason Hughes MG +2.295
17. John George Honda +2.452
18. Chris Stockton SEAT +2.471
19. Michael Doyle Honda +2.800
20. Alan Taylor Honda +3.338
21. Martyn Bell Vauxhall +3.717
22. Andrew Jordan Honda No Time
23. Erkut Kizilirmak Vauxhall No Time
24. Stuart Oliver SEAT No Time

Darren Turner taking a good pole position, he looked quite comfortable in that position all session. Very good lap by Gordon Shedden right at the end to split the SEATs. Why did Stuart Oliver and Andrew Jordan not do a fast lap?

[VX_Rules]

I dont think VX are sandbaging, as it wouldnt make sense to do it in Quali, the times arent too bad, and Gio does have max ballast. But the rain will help them out, so no worries. :D

[Neil J]

How many VXR mechanics can you get on a quad?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c5/oneil44/croftbtcc08023.jpg

[Mp3 Astra]

So what was all that about? That was a scary incident for the marshalls and probably very scary for the drivers - the track was definitely not suitable for racing. I'm surprised they didn't abandon the restart.

As for points, we will know shortly...

[VX_Rules]

Well that was odd, and it prooves my point Seatfreak, anyones luck can change. But it was a bit wet, reminds me of Donny last year, I would imagine the single seater races will be abandoned.

[VkmSpouge]

I wonder if they will half the points award because the race never reached 3/4 distance?
Good results for Rob Collard in 5th place (best Motorbase result this year) and Michael Doyle up in 9th place!
I notice the official results have yet to be posted on BTCC.net or TSL Timing.

[Mp3 Astra]

How many laps had they done before the first stoppage? Was it 3, 4, or 5? I'm thinking in the end they stopped it on lap 4 and counted back. Then in the second start we had 3 laps before it was stopped again. So in total, 7 laps of 15 were completed so it wasn't even half distance. So no points? Half points? Watch this space.

[VX_Rules]

Halfing them would be awkward though having some people get "4.5" points for example.
Doyle did very well!
One thing though, Where is Omorogobe?
We have Louise back thank god, but I thought she wasnt going to do any of the BTCC season?

Who thinks the other races will happen today?

[Mp3 Astra]

I'm optomistic that we might get *some* racing today. When, is the question.

[cos]

One thing though, Where is Omorogobe?

Isle of Man TT?

[VX_Rules]

Have we got to listen to some jabbering for the next 4hours? lol

[VX_Rules]

I didnt know that is where she was, She's better of there, Louise is better with cars and Omorgobe is better with bikes.
But it did annoy me today when she said "V X R Racing".
No love. :D

[ChocMonster]

I live in Darlington and it's been raining since about 8.30 this morning, I'm now so glad that I went up to Croft yesterday for qualifying!

As for Ted & Co. filling in, seems that they didn't record the three support races which were held yesterday afternoon otherwise they could show those.

[Mp3 Astra]

I live in Darlington and it's been raining since about 8.30 this morning, I'm now so glad that I went up to Croft yesterday for qualifying!

As for Ted & Co. filling in, seems that they didn't record the three support races which were held yesterday afternoon otherwise they could show those.

They don't often have cameras at the circuit on Saturday - they're usually just setting up and testing.

And full points have been awarded! I'm amazed. Very bad news for SEAT.

[VkmSpouge]

Halfing them would be awkward though having some people get "4.5" points for example.

I know but it happens in F1, Gianni Morbidelli scored 0.5 points for sixth place at Australia 1991 after the race was abandoned, his only points score that season. However it is all redundant now as Ted Kravitz has just said TOCA have announced that full points will be awarded for the race.

[VX_Rules]

Very good news for Vauxhall though! But c'mon, lets get racing again.

[VkmSpouge]

They've just sent the SEAT Cupras out on track to see how the track is.

[VX_Rules]

Racing at last, then the touring cars again after.

[Mp3 Astra]

Has to be said that ITV are doing a good job , keeping the interviews and discussions going. Good job.

[VX_Rules]

Yeah they are, It was a good decision to get Ben and Tim with Ted, otherwise I think he would of died on his feet.

[ChocMonster]

The SEAT's seem to be coping pretty well now that the safety car has come in.

Okay, I spoke too soon!

[VX_Rules]

"Rowbo" hit the barrier quite hard, but yeah, It seems better, now let's get the Touring cars back out!

[AndyRAC]

Matt Neal is at it again - taking his Dad's team car out. Can't help himself, can he?

[VX_Rules]

Im not quite sure if he "took him out" would need to see more different footage to determine what happened there, but just because it's his Dad's team's car doesn't mean he shouldn't try to overtake because then it's favourtism.

[VX_Rules]

Jordan on pole, which leaves the Seats missing out on the grid reversle. :D but poor showing today from OC.

[VkmSpouge]

What a drive by Mat Jackson! 18th to 2nd and he almost got Colin Turkington at the end! Superb stuff. Turkington taking another rain soaked victory, just holding off his fellow BMW.
Another good drive by Rob Collard. I think he was faster than Matt Neal but just couldn't find a way by to get the final podium spot. I feel sorry for Collard's team mate, Steven Kane who deserved 5th place but stopped on the last lap, what happened to him? I saw him exiting the last corner with
half his front missing.
Felt sorry for Michael Doyle he was holding his own early on against drivers in more up to date machinery.
Also feel sorry for Gordon Shedden, Matt Neal should have given him more space but in these conditions I guess he ran a little wide and hit his former team mate. I would love to hear the discussion between Matt and Steve Neal about this :D
Mike Jordan on pole for race 3, I hope he can grab victory.

[thompp]

Fantastic race by Mat Jackson in race two - only a hairs breadth from winning. He would have won race one but he was going a bit too fast and went off, if he'd held back a bit - he was in a comfortable lead - he'd probably have been all right.

[Mp3 Astra]

Race 2 was a cracker. Mat Jackson drives one of the best drives of any driver in the last few years, amazing!

Shedden was unlucky, I think the cars locked together slightly and speared him off into the tyres. Neither drivers' fault I think.

[VkmSpouge]

Race 3 was interesting. I was really hoping Rob Collard would be able to hold off Giovanardi but clearly the Vauxhall was far superior. Adam Jones did very well, points finishes in every race.
Every bad weekend for SEAT, just a handful of points scored.

[VX_Rules]

Has seatfreak come on yet moaning about Seat?

[tyreman2]

Matt Neal is at it again - taking his Dad's team car out. Can't help himself, can he?
When will Sheddon learn? At some stage you have to give a corner up.he did the same thing at Brands and took himself and Jones out of the race.He was correct in the interview when he said that one car didnt need to end up in the barrier.Shame he didn't think of that a bit sooner.Neal was imo completely blameless

[VXRDartford]

Before SeatFreak starts moaning about how bad the Seat were. It was all down to the drivers this weekend as they showed in qualifying that they had the pace!

[SEATFreak]

Has seatfreak come on yet moaning about Seat?


Before SeatFreak starts moaning about how bad the Seat were. It was all down to the drivers this weekend as they showed in qualifying that they had the pace!

Moral standards are as high as ever I see. :uhoh:

I actually blame the rain. We have never been good in the rain any time it has rained. Just look at the records for performances in races where it rained heavily. Round 9 we did well in the rain but according to TSL it drizzled. It didn't rain heavy. I even said that to Jase during the pitwalkabout. I said to him "we have been hexed". Regarding the rain. My premonition came true.

I don't blame the drivers becaue they tried their best and that is the very least I expect of them. Being kind to them I think it was just bad luck that forced DT in race 3 on it's restart, and Jase on the warm-up lap, on the same area of gravel.

I hope we come back at Snetterton in some small way.

It wasn't all bad for me though. I give all 100% of my warment congratulations to another Leon driver; Adam Jones. A fantastic 2nd in race 3 to put TAC 3pts behind Team RAC.

[VX_Rules]

Snet wil be one for the Vectras :P

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Snet wil be one for the Vectras :P

The long straights should suit the Leon TDI's

It was an amazing days racing. Mat Jackson was awesome in the wet, he is the most spectacular driver to watch. In race 2 the rear drive BMW's were dominating, which was interesting. They just seemed to have so much more grip than the front wheel drive cars.
People say they are not good when its not fully wet, but it seems on a drying track they didn't cook their tyres.

[Iain]

Snett will suit the BMWs also. If it's dry, then it will be a close one.

[SEATFreak]

Snet wil be one for the Vectras :P

As is Brands, Donnington, Thruxton, Croft, Knockhill, Silverstone........ :p :

[ATF]

What's the latest with Jason Hughes - how come he is still racing the MG and is he still planning to race an Integra this year?

[VX_Rules]

Well, i mean more the drivers than the Vectras, Gio is class around Snetterton, and TOC took his first BTCC win there. So overall it should be a good weekend for Vauxhall. And yes the Vectra is a very good all round car.
It's right that the TDI should excel on the straights, but so far it hasn't come into it's own much really.

EDIT: That MG just wont die will it!

[Marc W]

What's the latest with Jason Hughes - how come he is still racing the MG and is he still planning to race an Integra this year?

I don't know the full story but for whatever reason he has been unable to get the Integra from Dave pinkney yet. He is definately still planning on racing the Honda when he can get it.

[AndySpeed]

I don't know the full story but for whatever reason he has been unable to get the Integra from Dave pinkney yet. He is definately still planning on racing the Honda when he can get it.

I'm wondering though, is that still a 'when' or is it now an 'if'...

[Marc W]

It's still supposed to be a when...

[stevevxr]

To all VX guys out there !!

what a great start to the season... We can do it in the rain and in the sun...

Gio. Neal. Tom o.c for the championship.

Seat !! get some proper driver's and some proper fuel !!!!

A six year old Vauxhall Vectra beating a modern Seat, BMW and honda.

Christ now's what will happen when VX release the New INSIGNIA..

VX Rules.com

[poole123]

Does anyone now why Jason Hughes didnt start the third race at Croft?.

[VX_Rules]

I like Steve's thinking :D .

And by saying that about Seat, you've got it coming now from SEATfreak!

[SEATFreak]

I like Steve's thinking :D .

And by saying that about Seat, you've got it coming now from SEATfreak!

You really think I am going to disagree with what he said?

Especially about the drivers. I am begining to doubt a)if Jase has anything more to offer touring cars and whether he should think of retiring and b)if DT is just a tad over-rated or not in the BTCC. He is very good in the Prodrive Aston Martin though.

Yet who is out there in the world that can beat Giovanardi over the course of the season? Who is better than Giovanardi in the world? I doubt if their is anyone in BMW, SEAT and Chervolet in the WTCC that is for sure. Perhaps Augusto Farfus. I think he could give him a race.

However if, as I would like to see and ideally, Prodrive take-over (DT knows about Prodrive racing for them in the Aston Martins) I like to think they would get the best out of Jase and DT.

Where I question any new team to run SEAT and the SCC is why take on a new team when they know as much about diesel power as Northern South do?

[VX_Rules]

I think Jase should move on but I have that feeling, he will never go away. Turner is good, but he has so much inbelievable bad luck. Maybe the VW Group should withdraw SEAT and enter some golfs or jetta's for fun instead. :P

[MBailey06]

SEATFreak, I doubt Giovanardi will stay past this year, so you have hope for next year probably.

[CroftPilgrim]

A six year old Vauxhall Vectra beating a modern Seat, BMW and honda.
[/B]

I see where you are coming from, but as a race car, its not even 2 years old. And that's what really matters....

[Marc W]

Does anyone now why Jason Hughes didnt start the third race at Croft?.

His Clutch failed and there wasn't time to fix it before the last race.

[SEATFreak]

SEATFreak, I doubt Giovanardi will stay past this year, so you have hope for next year probably.

Hope? What's that? Because even in the event Gio does leave, which will come as a massive shock to everyone if it happens, knowing VXR's lucky and fortunate nature they will manage to find someone who seems to drive as flawlessly and with as much ability as Gio does.

Because Triple Eight are a very lucky and fortunate team. Few teams, if any, have ever engineeed within a year a car that can do exceptionally well in almost any situation and get maximum points. The Vectra hit the ground running last year. And few teams, if any, have drivers that drive so flawlessley and with so much ability as Mat Neal, Fabrizio Giovanardi and Tom Onslow Cole. And it is killing me to admit that every time.

Currently SEAT can only ever dream of being that kind of team. Currently SEAT seem beset by bad luck and bad judgements; both of the driving and tactical kind.


Turner is good, but he has so much inbelievable bad luck.

He also has unbelivable bad luck too it seems :p :


I think Jase should move on but I have that feeling, he will never go away.

Like a wasp at a picnic! :p :


A six year old Vauxhall Vectra beating a modern Seat, BMW and honda.

They have had the Vectra six years? Wow! Time flies! :p :

[I am evil Homer]

Hope? What's that? Because even in the event Gio does leave, which will come as a massive shock to everyone if it happens, knowing VXR's lucky and fortunate nature they will manage to find someone who seems to drive as flawlessly and with as much ability as Gio does.

Because Triple Eight are a very lucky and fortunate team. Few teams, if any, have ever engineeed within a year a car that can do exceptionally well in almost any situation and get maximum points. The Vectra hit the ground running last year. And few teams, if any, have drivers that drive so flawlessley and with so much ability as Mat Neal, Fabrizio Giovanardi and Tom Onslow Cole. And it is killing me to admit that every time.

Currently SEAT can only ever dream of being that kind of team. Currently SEAT seem beset by bad luck and bad judgements; both of the driving and tactical kind.



He also has unbelivable bad luck too it seems :p :



Like a wasp at a picnic! :p :



They have had the Vectra six years? Wow! Time flies! :p :


Luck and fortune have nothing to do with it....888 are superb engineers at whatever they do. The recognised that the Astra Sporthatch was never going to be competitive as they needed it to be and started work on the Vectra.

They put in the hours and are reaping the rewards. Yes in Gio they have a supreme tintop driver, one of the best ever, but constantly saying they're lucky and fortunate. No sorry, you make your own luck through hard work and skill.

Maybe SEAT should have tried to hire Jackson or O-C or Neal. I believe DT is a very good driver still learning his art there is definitely more to come from him.

[Iain]

SEATFreak - why don't you change your allegiance (again) and support another team with significantly lower expectations, you're on the road to a nervous breakdown at this point. :p :

[SEATFreak]

SEATFreak - why don't you change your allegiance (again) and support another team with significantly lower expectations, you're on the road to a nervous breakdown at this point. :p :

I DO support one though. :p :

But I literally would never swap SEAT for Vauxhall or any other team for anything. I would rather stand in a very very large and very very deep muddy puddle in torrential pissing rain at Croft than change; supposedly again.

Though being fair to me it was a decision influenced a lot by uncertainty. It was 2005. A year before WSR got the RAC sponsorship deal, Rob Collard was competing for them, the hugely succesfull 2004 with Reidy was now in the past now that Reidy was gone and I am sure their was some small small degree of talk that WSR were going to pull out if they couldn't find something from somewhere; a new car or some sponsorship. I wanted a team with a more secure future and irresective of whatever they have done since 2004 SEAT have it. They just need to find that forumula that seems to make Triple Eight the best team in touring cars right now.

[VX_Rules]

I have a feeling it wont be long before Gio moves on to unfortuantely. almost suspicious, how theres three team mates this year? Anyone think it could be Neal and OC next year possibly with Gio moving to Chevvy WTCC?

I can see it happening, but hey, why not. Plato will still have no hope. lol.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I DO support one though. :p :

But I literally would never swap SEAT for Vauxhall or any other team for anything. I would rather stand in a very very large and very very deep muddy puddle in torrential pissing rain at Croft than change; supposedly again.

Though being fair to me it was a decision influenced a lot by uncertainty. It was 2005. A year before WSR got the RAC sponsorship deal, Rob Collard was competing for them, the hugely succesfull 2004 with Reidy was now in the past now that Reidy was gone and I am sure their was some small small degree of talk that WSR were going to pull out if they couldn't find something from somewhere; a new car or some sponsorship. I wanted a team with a more secure future and irresective of whatever they have done since 2004 SEAT have it. They just need to find that forumula that seems to make Triple Eight the best team in touring cars right now.

Why don't you support the championship instead of supporting a team. It's much more fun that way. :p

[SEATFreak]

I have a feeling it wont be long before Gio moves on to unfortuantely. almost suspicious, how theres three team mates this year? Anyone think it could be Neal and OC next year possibly with Gio moving to Chevvy WTCC?

I can see it happening, but hey, why not. Plato will still have no hope. lol.

I don't think Giovanardi will leave. Why would he leave? For as long as he remains in the BTCC he will go into the season the stand-out red hot favourite for the title. If he goes to the WTCC next year he will have drivers closer to his level and won't really be as much of a stand-out red-hot fave. And if he were to move to RML, I just think racing a new generation of Lacetti coming in to replace the current model may make predicting how he will do even more uncertain.

Also, VXR spend too much time finding ways to further secure by re-enforcing and re-asserting dominance to get shot of the most succeful tintop driver in history. They already had close to the start of this season the current one champion, why get the winner of the last two previous seasons too if only to reinforce and reassert dominance?

What I am saying is, VXR and Triple Eight are a team with too much ambition and drive (no pun intended) to keep on being the most dominant team in touring car history to get rid of Fabrizio.

[stevevxr]

I can't see Gio going to Daewoo next season for the WTCC. Think he'll be at VXR for a couple of more years and will proberly be involved with the next generation Vauxhall Winner....

Think matt neal will go back to Halfords because chilton just ain't doin the job required at Honda.

So i think It will be Gio and Tom O-C with poss a new Car !?!

[VX_Rules]

Daewoo! Lol, took me a while to figure that one out! forgot Chevy's european past. haha. It's just Giovanardi has what? 6? 7? Titles under his belt. I would say his ambition is to jus get as many different titles possible as that is what it seems like! Though i think you could be right with the new developement, whenever that could be, 08/09 or 09/10.

[Martin-MC]

I cant see Gio moving to a different series. At 41 what has he got to prove? Nothing at all. So no point in doing WTCC with all the extra travelling and pressue etc.
Why leave a winning formula? If TOC starts to take steps forward and begins to beat GIO often then GIO may just say hey ive had a good time but this young lads now beating me so I will retire gracefully whilst still nr the top of my game.

Unlike another certain driver who has recently become a dad, the one thing he probably hasnt moaned about!

[AndySpeed]

Think matt neal will go back to Halfords because chilton just ain't doin the job required at Honda.

So i think It will be Gio and Tom O-C with poss a new Car !?!

So you feel he might mirror what happened in 1994 and 2002, with a single year in a works team? I disagree, I think that Matt has wanted to have a full works drive for some time, especially with a competitive team.

[Mp3 Astra]

So you feel he might mirror what happened in 1994 and 2002, with a single year in a works team? I disagree, I think that Matt has wanted to have a full works drive for some time, especially with a competitive team.

Agreed. Currently he is second in the championship in this team - I would be surprised to see him going back to his dad after just one year. I think we haven't seen the best of Matt Neal, yet, this year...

[BDunnell]

Why don't you support the championship instead of supporting a team. It's much more fun that way. :p

:up:

I couldn't agree more. That goes for all motorsports.

[VXRDartford]

What I am saying is, VXR and Triple Eight are a team with too much ambition and drive (no pun intended) to keep on being the most dominant team in touring car history to get rid of Fabrizio.

I am sure VX Racing would never get ride of Gio but if he wants to go don't think they would be able to stop him. If Gio wins this year can't see him staying around as he has proved himself in the BTCC. Would have thought he would want another shot at the WTCC before he retires.

As for Turner he just lets people thru without even trying to defend his position. Still think Plato is a great driver. This year is a learning year for the Leon next year it will come good (I hope!) Then if they are still in the BTCC they can use the Balero.

[SEATFreak]

I think we kind of knew instinctively Neal will never go back to Team Dynamics. Why swap VXR for Team Dynamics?

So would VXR really let Giovanardi go unless Neal and Onslow Cole are performing as good as Gio is first; even if Giovanardi suddenly looses all that which made him the strongest driver the BTCC has ever seen or ever will see? Because a weak Giovanardi is still better than a strong Tom or Mat. A weak Giovanardi can still beat any driver SEAT recruits.

If he goes and Neal and Cole are NOT performing as well as Giovanardi enough to take over from Fabrizio sufficiently then that could result in VXR seeing a bit of their strength diminish. And if that happens then SEAT will be given a golden 24-carat chance to close what they have been generously handed by those nice people at VXR; an already reduced gap between them and VXR in terms of overall strength.

As much as I would love that to happen, as much as I would love to see Giovanardi leave VXR who will be in a weaker position for it, I just think Ian Harrison is just to passionate about beating SEAT to let them have a bit of their success.


Then if they are still in the BTCC they can use the Balero.

I cannot see it on the seat website but I suppose if it is a saloon rather than a hatchback then I suppose it will have it's advantages. The Leon is good, but not one that can be strong long-term. SEAT must have thrown everything at it (including the sink from SEAT's canteen) and still it is not good enough to beat the Vectra long term.

[Marc W]

I think we kind of knew instinctively Neal will never go back to Team Dynamics. Why swap VXR for Team Dynamics?

Why not? He went back to TD after the last time he drove for Vauxhall.

[SEATFreak]

Why not? He went back to TD after the last time he drove for Vauxhall.

But I am sure he went to Honda Racing first (in 2003) to partner Alan Morrison after he left Vauxhall the year before before going to Team Dynamics for 2004 (or Computeach Racing as I think they were known).

Even then it was Egg:Sport he was at in 2002, who, as far as I have always felt, were run by Triple Eight but not actually as a full works team.

But I am sure someone can put the record straight on what exactly Egg:Sport were. Whether Matt and Paul O'Neill (his team-mate) in 2002 had competed alongside or indeed against James Thompson and Yvan Muller. Whether Egg:Sport scored points on their own or whether they scored points for Vauxhall Motorsport aswell.

[AndySpeed]

But I am sure someone can put the record straight on what exactly Egg:Sport were. Whether Matt and Paul O'Neill (his team-mate) in 2002 had competed alongside or indeed against James Thompson and Yvan Muller. Whether Egg:Sport scored points on their own or whether they scored points for Vauxhall Motorsport aswell.

A bit like Team Halfords this year, who are neither classed as a manufacturer entry or an independent one, due to the (contentious) issue of initial support from Honda in the development of the cars but with no actual funding season-long. I believe the same goes for Egg:Sport in 2001 and 2002, where there was manufacturer support in getting the cars prepared initially, yet there was no funding from Vauxhall thereafter and it was up to Triple Eight to run the cars; the main source of funding being Egg.

[baadman27]

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[stevevxr]

I'm still not sure of Matt Neal stopping at VXR in the near future !! Don't forget Neal as still got fingers in the pie's at team dynamic / rimstock... And i think Neal's dad is not happy with flash shedden and Tom Chiltons performance...

Plus Matt neal as put a little extra cost team dynamics way with a few bump's with flash !!!!

Plus if Vauxhall develop a new car for next season !?! Insignia !?! budget is going to be tight. So two drivers team it might be... So Fab Gio and Super Tom O-C it might be...th way it goes... very interesting

Any way the season will finish Gio, Tom-O-C, Neal, jackson, Turkington,(LOSER) Plato :dork: ,

VAUXHALL - TEAM & MANU AWARDS

VAUXHALL FOR THE TRIPLE :)

[AndySpeed]

Any way the season will finish Gio, Tom-O-C, Neal, jackson, Turkington,(LOSER) Plato :dork: ,

A fiver says that Plato will be at least three places higher than that

[BDunnell]

Especially about the drivers. I am begining to doubt a)if Jase has anything more to offer touring cars and whether he should think of retiring and b)if DT is just a tad over-rated or not in the BTCC. He is very good in the Prodrive Aston Martin though.

Yet who is out there in the world that can beat Giovanardi over the course of the season?

I think Plato and Turner are both championship contenders in the right circumstances, but this just isn't their year.

As for who could beat Giovanardi consistently, Gabriele Tarquini would still be able to make a good fist of it, surely. His consistency in this year's WTCC is impressive.

[AndySpeed]

I think Plato and Turner are both championship contenders in the right circumstances, but this just isn't their year.

As for who could beat Giovanardi consistently, Gabriele Tarquini would still be able to make a good fist of it, surely. His consistency in this year's WTCC is impressive.

When it comes to touring car racing Britain has some of the hottest talents out there - both Andy Priaulx and James Thompson would be good bets.

[BDunnell]

When it comes to touring car racing Britain has some of the hottest talents out there - both Andy Priaulx and James Thompson would be good bets.

They would indeed, though would Priaulx in a BMW be able to achieve the same sort of success in the BTCC as he has in the WTCC? I have my doubts, somehow.

[SEATFreak]

Plus if Vauxhall develop a new car for next season !?! Insignia !?! budget is going to be tight.

Then atleast they have something SEAT can cling on to when desperate times come. A total lack of any concept of just how strong the Vectra has been in just two years.

It won 10 races in its maiden season and thus far it has won 7. So already it is up on last season. Gio only won 5 races at the end of the first half.

Thank to the introduction of diesel in the Leon, sadly we cannot compare the wins it had last season to so far and compare that to how many wins it had at the end of the first half of last season because it ran on petrol last year.

Mind, if the Insignia is introduced and performs in it's first two years the way the Vectra has in it's first two years then VXR have secured another triple for atleast another two years.


A fiver says that Plato will be at least three places higher than that

Spend it on something more worthwhile like a copy of Autosport Magazine.


When it comes to touring car racing Britain has some of the hottest talents out there - both Andy Priaulx and James Thompson would be good bets.

If your talking Britons in tintops who could beat Fabrizio, what about Rob Huff? I don't, in all honesty, think the RML Lacetti has been that good for not just Huffy but also Larini and Menu too. It has won races (7 in total last year) and Larini finished joint 4th to Augusto Farfus with 71pts last season but I think in another car like the BMW 320si they would peform a lot stronger.

I think in Huff could give Gio a race but again Gio would or could likely win first time and every time.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

They would indeed, though would Priaulx in a BMW be able to achieve the same sort of success in the BTCC as he has in the WTCC? I have my doubts, somehow.

I'd imagine Priaulx would be as fast as Jackson but more consistent.

[VkmSpouge]

I imagine Priaulx would be faster than Jackson, more experience and newer equipment.