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Knock-on
29th May 2008, 12:20
Rumour has it (I'm just the messenger) that Max has an interest in bringing in a single wet and dry tyre under safety regulations.

Comments?

ioan
29th May 2008, 12:34
Link?

Mark
29th May 2008, 12:35
They've been talking about that for years. Stupid idea 10 years ago, stupid idea now.

Azumanga Davo
29th May 2008, 12:46
Rumour has it (I'm just the messenger) that Max has an interest in bringing in a single wet and dry tyre under safety regulations.

Comments?

That idea deserves none.

Knock-on
29th May 2008, 12:56
Link?

That's why it's a rumour at this moment. However, it looks like it may be being seriously considered but no link I'm afraid.

I absolutly hate the idea. Greats like Senna differentiated their skill by staying out on slicks and being competitive long after others had pitted.

Yet more dumbing down of F1.

ShiftingGears
29th May 2008, 13:12
Link?

The rumour's been around for a looooooong time.

ioan
29th May 2008, 13:29
That's why it's a rumour at this moment. However, it looks like it may be being seriously considered but no link I'm afraid.

I absolutly hate the idea. Greats like Senna differentiated their skill by staying out on slicks and being competitive long after others had pitted.

Yet more dumbing down of F1.

I just thought that maybe there is a link to an article that explain a bit the technicalities considered a base for this "idea".

One dry tire would be acceptable, if it was the same for the whole season and it was know to all teams when they start working on their car that will be used with this tire.

The one wet weather tire is however a bit far fetched because it will have to be a heavy rain tire that would work well with lots of water on track but than degrade fast when the track develops towards damp and dry conditions. A standard wet weather tire is out of question, unless they are planing to run some races under SC from lights to flag.

Mark
29th May 2008, 13:35
A single tyre for all circumstances has been considered for a while. But a single type of wet tyre has been done before. IIRC Goodyear only had one type of wet, no inters!

Valve Bounce
29th May 2008, 13:43
I only have the one set of tyres in my Volvo for both wet and dry, not to mention ice and snow. :eek:

I just have to drive more carefully under adverse conditions, that's all!!

Knock-on
29th May 2008, 13:48
I just thought that maybe there is a link to an article that explain a bit the technicalities considered a base for this "idea".

One dry tire would be acceptable, if it was the same for the whole season and it was know to all teams when they start working on their car that will be used with this tire.

The one wet weather tire is however a bit far fetched because it will have to be a heavy rain tire that would work well with lots of water on track but than degrade fast when the track develops towards damp and dry conditions. A standard wet weather tire is out of question, unless they are planing to run some races under SC from lights to flag.

The idea being mooted is for 1 tyre.

ioan
29th May 2008, 14:03
The idea being mooted is for 1 tyre.

You see, this is why I asked a link! I had no idea about it.

ShiftingGears
29th May 2008, 14:11
You see, this is why I asked a link! I had no idea about it.

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/99/mar17/grapevine.html

March 17 1999!!

However what I found more interesting was the discussion was talking about KERS. Shows how old the technology really is!

jens
29th May 2008, 14:24
If I remember correctly, then a similar idea was implemented in 2003, when each tyre manufacturer (Michelin and Bridgestone) could bring only one wet weather tyre set (either intermediate or full wet) to a Grand Prix.

For Melbourne both tyre companies brought full wets, but in the beginning the track was only damp and switching to dries quickly was beneficial.

For Interlagos both tyre companies had "learned" and brought inters, but the conditions were so difficult that almost half of the grid spun off.

After those cases the idea of one wet tyre was abandoned. :p : FIA tried to cut costs, but the carnage at Interlagos showed that it actually increased costs. :p :

Knock-on
29th May 2008, 14:37
http://atlasf1.autosport.com/99/mar17/grapevine.html

March 17 1999!!

However what I found more interesting was the discussion was talking about KERS. Shows how old the technology really is!

Blimey, didn't know they were talking about it wayyyy back then.

The rumour I heard was that BS was asked before the whole MM thing kicked off about the possibility of a single tyre like an inter. They would still produce a Full wet (or Monsoon if you like) but the conditions at Monoco reminded me that it was still under consideration.

Max may not have the stomach (or job) to force it in now though.

cosmicpanda
29th May 2008, 15:06
Weren't they going to slicks? How can a slick be a wet tyre?

Mark
29th May 2008, 16:07
Slicks next year, yes.

SGWilko
29th May 2008, 16:32
http://atlasf1.autosport.com/99/mar17/grapevine.html

March 17 1999!!

However what I found more interesting was the discussion was talking about KERS. Shows how old the technology really is!

Shows how the FIA missed a trick if you ask me. How advanced would energy recovery systems be now if they had been allowed in '99?

elinagr
29th May 2008, 17:36
Where did you hear about thar rumurs and start this thread?
in the monaco grid?

leopard
30th May 2008, 05:17
Let me search the source again ;)

Nobody have discussed effectiveness on one-tires race after watching single accident of Heikki couple races ago while it's obvious for the tires fault. It is fairly to indicate that no product of tires are perfectly safe from such accident. This could bring Michelin back again into the race.

ioan
30th May 2008, 10:11
Shows how the FIA missed a trick if you ask me. How advanced would energy recovery systems be now if they had been allowed in '99?

The problem isn't the FIA missing the trick but the teams agreeing to what the FIA asks.
The teams are not willing to spend money to develop all kind of systems that are being asked by the FIA, and it took lots of time and work done by Mosley to push some changes through.
This is something that should be know, when making comments about the FIA in relation to F1 changes.

ShiftingGears
30th May 2008, 10:17
The problem isn't the FIA missing the trick but the teams agreeing to what the FIA asks.
The teams are not willing to spend money to develop all kind of systems that are being asked by the FIA, and it took lots of time and work done by Mosley to push some changes through.
This is something that should be know, when making comments about the FIA in relation to F1 changes.

The general consensus by many is that around 2003 he went a bit nuts and brought in the race fuel quali and thought the 2.4L engines were a good idea etc etc.

ioan
30th May 2008, 10:38
The general consensus by many is that around 2003 he went a bit nuts and brought in the race fuel quali and thought the 2.4L engines were a good idea etc etc.

He didn't do that by himself.
The qualifying rules were changed because Bernie was in need of a better show in order to keep the cash flowing towards his banks.
The 2.4 engines only came in 2006, I think and was pushed through under safety concerns.
However it would be a bit difficult to pass the KERS introduction because of safety concerns. :)

ShiftingGears
30th May 2008, 11:13
He didn't do that by himself.
The qualifying rules were changed because Bernie was in need of a better show in order to keep the cash flowing towards his banks.
The 2.4 engines only came in 2006, I think and was pushed through under safety concerns.
However it would be a bit difficult to pass the KERS introduction because of safety concerns. :)

When he talks about cost cutting and then pushes through an entirely new engine format in the name of safety (when merely a restrictor plate would need to be added) you don't see that as completely contradictory and heavily irrational?

Likewise, there is no added danger of a KERS introduction that could not be solved with a restrictor plate (again, if there is any extra significant danger).

The fuel load qualifying has been stupid from the outset and I'm amazed that the FIA has not gotten rid of it already.

ioan
30th May 2008, 11:49
When he talks about cost cutting and then pushes through an entirely new engine format in the name of safety (when merely a restrictor plate would need to be added) you don't see that as completely contradictory and heavily irrational?

How would it look to have the pinacle of motorsport running engines with restrictor plates?


Likewise, there is no added danger of a KERS introduction that could not be solved with a restrictor plate (again, if there is any extra significant danger).

KERS will not be introduced using safety concerns as a reason, that's what it takes so long.


The fuel load qualifying has been stupid from the outset and I'm amazed that the FIA has not gotten rid of it already.

Teams built their cars with the race fuel load qualifying in mind, and they aren't willing to change again. There lies the problem with technical changes in F1, the teams aren't willing to agree to them, not very often.

Big Ben
30th May 2008, 11:51
I only have the one set of tyres in my Volvo for both wet and dry, not to mention ice and snow. :eek:

I just have to drive more carefully under adverse conditions, that's all!!

ice and snow... now that must be a problem you have to deal with a lot... or maybe I'm wrong and it's not you the one that takes benny to Albert Park to have a $h1t :laugh:

Knock-on
30th May 2008, 11:58
How would it look to have the pinacle of motorsport running engines with restrictor plates?



Quite agree. Next, they will be talking about grooved tyres and rev limiters :rolleyes:

Valve Bounce
30th May 2008, 13:01
ice and snow... now that must be a problem you have to deal with a lot... or maybe I'm wrong and it's not you the one that takes benny to Albert Park to have a $h1t :laugh:

No!! it's only when I go ski-ing at Mt Hotham in the winter months, or maybe stray as far as Perisher. I do have a set of chains in the spare tyre compartment, just to keep the park rangers happy.

Valve Bounce
30th May 2008, 13:03
Quite agree. Next, they will be talking about grooved tyres and rev limiters :rolleyes:


.............and 2.4 litre V8 engines instead of 3 litre V12's. What will they think of next. :( :bigcry:

ShiftingGears
30th May 2008, 13:10
How would it look to have the pinacle of motorsport running engines with restrictor plates?
A hell of a lot less stupid than one with an engine freeze, and a hell of a lot less expensive than one with V8's.




KERS will not be introduced using safety concerns as a reason, that's what it takes so long.

I suspect, being the pinnacle of motorsport, people would expect it to have done something about investing in KERS as opposed to the FIA sitting on their hands for 10 years.



Teams built their cars with the race fuel load qualifying in mind, and they aren't willing to change again. There lies the problem with technical changes in F1, the teams aren't willing to agree to them, not very often.

I am sure if the FIA wanted to change that stupid rule they could. Remember they also banned tyres and mass dampers during recent F1 seasons, and not many agreed with them.

Valve Bounce
30th May 2008, 15:08
Can somebody please explain to me what KERS is :confused:

ioan
30th May 2008, 16:39
Can somebody please explain to me what KERS is :confused:

Kinetic Energy Recovery System.