new "Daytona Superbike" rules

[ChrisS]

Daytona Motorsports Group has released the rules regarding the new premier class of AMA Superbike from 2009. the Daytona Superbikes.

The riders and manufacturers are not happy with the rules. Mladin, who was one of the few people that said "wait and see before going against them" when the DMG took over is now really vocal against the new rules.

The eligible bikes make it club level racing IMHO, they make AMA Superbikes irrelevant. I hope Spies (and other young talent) gets out and go racing elsewhere. I cant imagine anyone considering a rider from this class as a MotoGP prospect.

The text is too long and the forum wont let me post it so just the list of eligible bikes, full rules at the link below

Aprilia Tuono
BMW HP2 Sport
Buell 1125R
Ducati 848
Ducati S4R
Honda CBR600RR
Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R
KTM Super Duke
MV Brutale 910S
Suzuki GSX-R750
Suzuki GSX-R600
Triumph Daytona 675
Yamaha YZF-R6

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/May/080526a.htm

[veeten]

Geez. :rolleyes: You expected that the rules for AMA Superbike would follow in the same direction as most of the other series across the globe were headed, especially with the new bikes out that fill the 3/4-cylinder-1000cc/2-cylinder 1200cc formula. Instead, we get this hodgepodge formula that makes NO sense.

Oh, that's right. It's Rodger Edmonson, the same guy that, along with his 'club buddies', gave us Grand Am: the NASCAR of sportscar prototype racing.

Don't be suprised that the same thing happens here as with the ALMS/Grand Am differentiation, where someone that has to take on a Panoz-like mantle in creating a series that represents what real bike racing is.

[veeten]

here's a simple answer...

Divide the sport into 3 categories, instead of the 2 at present.

Superbike - 1000cc 3-4 cylinder engines, 1200 2 cylinder engines

SuperSport - 750-900cc engines

SuperStock - 700-under cc engines

this way, there's a category for each bike that doesn't clash with the others.

[ChrisS]

here's a simple answer...

Divide the sport into 3 categories, instead of the 2 at present.

Superbike - 1000cc 3-4 cylinder engines, 1200 2 cylinder engines

SuperSport - 750-900cc engines

SuperStock - 700-under cc engines

this way, there's a category for each bike that doesn't clash with the others.

Superstock is about the level of modifications permitted not displacement. Also there's pretty much only one sport bike left in the 750-900cc category, the GSX-R750, with the Ducati 848 as maybe another possibility

I think the FIM classes are the best option

Superbike/Superstock 1000: 1000cc I4s 1200cc Twins
Supersport/Superstock 600: 600cc I4s 675cc triples 750cc Twins

If they want to race the bikes listed they can also add a naked bike class

[Mad_Hatter]

I watch ama racing, motogp, and world sbk, but don't know as much about the rules, specs, etc.

Question: wouldn't this be an opportunity for the fim or someone similar to step in and start a series with the current ama superbike teams?

[ChrisS]

The only way a new series could happen is if manufacturers themselves start one.

But manufacturers running the series is not a good thing. One of the main problems with the current AMA championship is that the manufacturers have too much power. They divided the classes amongst themselves and don't put much effort in other classes making the championship boring.

[patnicholls]

It certainly is true that AMA has become ruled by certain manufacturers in certain classes - did anyone say 'Suzuki cup' in the main class?

I guess the thinking behind this move is to effectively knock the class back down to basics to make affordable racing again - even if it means sacrificing relevance to the international series. As I started picking up on AMA a few years ago, there were massive grids of 40-ish riders , mostly of out-of-depth privateer teams a fair way off the pace, and about 7 or 8 decent bikes at the front. The grids have shrunk since then to around 20, and obviously all the money's still there with the grandee teams but the rest of the field's vanishing behind them.

Presumably - I could be completely wrong here - the thought is to get everyone back to an even-ish playing field then maybe think about bringing the series in line with the other Superbike series somewhere down the line? There've certainly been other series - the British Touring Cars in the UK springs to mind - where a couple of steps back tech-wise has eventually proved beneficial to the series.

[NinjaMaster]

I think the majority of bike racing fans would agree that the AMA series needed a shakeup but the measures that new owners, DMG, are proposing make the series a joke and irrelevant in my opinion. 600 as the premier class?! Give me strength.

The problem I see with the current AMA series is too many classes that are factionalised by the manufacturers. Each marque has their 'pet event' which has diluted the competition. They would have been far better to follow suit with the majority of other national series and simply trimmed the classes to the traditional Superbike and Supersport classes and if cost containment was needed, dumb them down closer to stock. Instead we have this abomination that I can see spreading the field out even further. Why? Because of this clause:

9. ENGINE MODIFICATIONS are unlimited, except for the following:

A. Bore and Stroke must remain as stock.
B. Valve sizes must remain as stock.
C. Stock cases, barrels, and cylinder heads must be used, but may be altered.
D. Stock carb bodies or stock fuel injection systems must be used, but carb internals, velocity stacks and injection management systems may be altered or replaced.
E. Injectors must be stock and unaltered from the original specification and manufacture.
F. Aftermarket exhaust systems appearing on the Eligible Equipment List may be installed.
G. Dyno-jet or kit-type Electronic "quick shifters" are allowed. Manual "secondary" hand operated kill switch/quick shifters are not allowed.
H. Clutch actuation may be modified to a racing "kit" type.
I. "Dry Clutches" are only permitted when used on the equivalent OE production model.
J. Aftermarket "Slipper" clutches appearing on the Eligible Equipment List are permitted.
K. Approved Engine Control Unit must be used without any modification whatsoever to the approved configuration. Series provided Engine Control Units may be required in 2010 and beyond.

So parts of any material, no matter how exotic and costly are allowed. This will increase the gap between the have's and have not's and see racing costs spiral. Not only that, but the 'support' class called Literbike will faster. So which series do they expect the best riders the U.S. has to offer to run in? The headline 'Daytona Superbikes' or the faster 'Literbike' class. I just hope that Mladin isn't hung out to dry by the other riders of like-minded thoughts.

This photo pretty much echo's my thoughts.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2008/wsbk/miller/7/SatUtah0075.JPG

[patnicholls]

Interesting comments from Francis Batta on the AMA situation here:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jun/080610a.htm

"For me, the good news is the new AMA rules in America, because that means no Superbike in America. So resources would be diverted to Alstare.

From the Japanese, the budget is for America and Alstare, America and Europe. For three riders in Alstare, the ideal composition would be: one rider, Japanese; one rider, American; and one rider, European - Max Neukirchner. Because an American rider in World Superbike is very good publicity from Suzuki America. It's possible that the return in terms of press for a US rider in WSBK would be the same or better for the rider if he stays in AMA. So this is my ideal."

[Mad_Hatter]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jun/080626bombshell.htm

[veeten]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jun/080626bombshell.htm

Well, well, well... Looks like I called that one, eh?

Don't be suprised to see some of these individuals showing up at ALMS races, doing some intelligence gathering on just how to run a successful road racing series that keeps a diverse number of manufacturers happy and supportive.

[T-D]

good news. i think that the new promoters should heald over to the uk straight away and benchmark the bsb to see how to successfully please sponsors, manufacturers and riders while maintaining a close, competitive national championship.

[ChrisS]

"However, the independent interests of the manufacturers call for a racing series that helps promote specific motorcycle brands."

Not so sure this is a good thing. Manufacturers will set up their own series and run it how they want so they can sell bikes. sort of like the AMA is right now.

The sort of "dictatorship" the Flaminis have in SBK is a good solution. Manufacturers can say their opinions but they don't take decisions. This is also how DMG wanted to run AMA. Their management approach seams right. unfortunately their rules arent

So the possibility is to have 2 American series. One irrelevant but well managed and one relevant but mismanaged