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Knock-on
27th May 2008, 15:59
.. and how's the season shaping up.

Hamiltons doing the business and Hekki lagging behind.
Kimi's looking a little stale and Massa's shining (will it continue?)
Kubica looks like a future champion IMHO and is killing Nick
Webber has got his career firmly restarted and may just be finishing DC's
Alonso's pretty ragged but getting some results although his team mate's hopeless
Nakajima has impressed as I thought Nico would blow him away
Honda :laugh: Thought they were getting somewhere :rolleyes:
STR, both drivers doing a reasonable job
Toyota = Great white Elephant
Force India are punching above their weight and Sutil is very impressive. GF may be holding a joint retirement party with DC

aryan
27th May 2008, 16:32
Pretty much spot on knockie

My A$0.02:
Under achievers (judged by pre-season expectations):

- McLaren (speed)
- Ferrari (strategy)
- Nick
- DC
- Piquet
- Renault

Over achievers (judged by pre-season expectations:

- Massa
- Kubica
- Webber
- Nakajima
- STR
- Force India

Everyone else is where I thought they would be, i.e., Alonso and BMW and Rosberg have been doing a good job, and Honda and Toyota and Piquet have just been mediocre, but they are were I expected them to be.

Judgement reseved on both STR drivers until they finish more races.

jens
27th May 2008, 21:08
Toyota = Great white Elephant


What does that mean? Sorry, couldn't understand. :p :

SGWilko
27th May 2008, 21:54
What does that mean? Sorry, couldn't understand. :p :

Should have been great RED & white elephant. ;)

Hawkmoon
28th May 2008, 00:34
.. and how's the season shaping up.

Hamiltons doing the business and Hekki lagging behind.

Hamilton's been inconsistent and had two good races, the last two. Kovalainen has had all the bad luck for McLaren with problems not of his making effecting him in 4 of the 6 races. He's beaten Hamilton in the other two.


Kimi's looking a little stale and Massa's shining (will it continue?)

Like Hamilton, Raikkonen's been inconsistent. That's a trait that Raikkonen has had from day one. He goes through a trough in form from time-to-time. Despite Monaco I still think he's the man to beat this season.

Massa had a horrible start but has scored more points than anybody else in the last 4 races. He's cut out the errors and is consistently quick. He's the best qualifier of the top 4 and has a real shot at the title. If he can keep his head.


Kubica looks like a future champion IMHO and is killing Nick

I agree with this one. But then again I've never thought of Heidfeld as anything more than a solid, consistent No. 2, so Kubica should be beating him.


Webber has got his career firmly restarted and may just be finishing DC's

Webber's having his best season. He's finally translating his excellent qualifying performances into race-day results and if the Red Bull holds together he'll score a few podiums before the end of the year. DC's mouth seems to be going faster than his driving. Time to call it a day David?


Alonso's pretty ragged but getting some results although his team mate's hopeless

Alonso seems to perform at his best when he has no internal pressure. I don't think he drives any quicker with a non-threatening teammate but his head seems to stay screwed on when his teammate isn't hassling him. Piquet seems to be doing a Kovalainen. Whether he can turn it around like the Finn did is another question.


Nakajima has impressed as I thought Nico would blow him away

Satoru's boy is quietly having a good season. His debut last year went largely unnoticed but was a very good drive. Do we have an heir to Sato's "Best Japanese Driver Ever" crown. Rosberg has been a little disappointing.


Honda :laugh: Thought they were getting somewhere :rolleyes:

That's Honda for you. Barrichello's retirement and the continual effect of Ross Brawn should start to see them going forward. Though I think that's been said before....


STR, both drivers doing a reasonable job

I think they've been one of, if not the, unluckiest teams on the grid. I haven't seen anything from Bourdais that makes me think he's got much of a future but I'm not going to judge him until the seasons over. Vettel's been unlucky but you make your own luck, no?


Toyota = Great white Elephant

Why are they still here? Haven't they burnt enough yen yet?


Force India are punching above their weight and Sutil is very impressive. GF may be holding a joint retirement party with DC

Fisichella has been doing his usual trick of getting the best out of a crap car and Sutil may have saved his season with that Monaco drive. All-in-all, this team hasn't looked as stable and focussed since Jordan's heyday.

Ranger
28th May 2008, 04:59
Winners/Kudos to:
Ferrari. Leading the WCC by a fair few points with 4 wins from 6 starts.
Kubica. No TC has benefited him greatly and he's completely beating Heidfeld (who last year showed he was no dummy). Only 6 points off the championship lead with one retirement speaks greatly of his achievements.
Massa. After a torrid start is starting to look like the better Ferrari driver at this moment. But we'll see at season's end.
Hamilton. Despite some poor outings and an unlucky team-mate, leading the WDC in not the best car can't be too bad by any means.
Webber. 15-0 on Coulthard with some great drives. Proof positive that all he needed was a reasonably fast and reliable car to get the results across his career. My money's on him scoring the most points he's ever scored.
Trulli. Not being shaded by highly rated Glock at all.
Alonso. Barring Monaco he's been right up there, though this must somewhat be accounted to Piquet Jr being abyssmal.
Nakajima. Apart from his Australian shenanigans, being 1 point behind "Future WDC" Rosberg isn't bad at all.

Disappointments
Heidfeld. Still driving as 'smart' as ever, but lucked out in Spain and Monaco. However, without TC, especially his qualifying pace is looking torrid compared to Kubica. He needs to improve, licketty-split.
Toyota. Still making simple mistakes, and whilst they started the year off well it seems to be going downhill (as ever).
Coulthard. Well. His age doesnt help when it comes to negotiating contracts but he's not helping it with his several high-profile accidents and lack of points. Very unlikely to be in F1 next year.
Button. Not faster than Barrichello (despite his 'smooth' style suited to no TC) and prone to making silly mistakes such as in Bahrain and Monaco.
Piquet Jr. Recently stated that he predicted problems for Monaco and Canada and said things would return to 'normal' after that. Thing is, in his case, 'normal' is being bog slow and crashing.

Looks like it'll be a pretty good season though. :up:

Knock-on
28th May 2008, 10:36
Hamilton's been inconsistent and had two good races, the last two. Kovalainen has had all the bad luck for McLaren with problems not of his making effecting him in 4 of the 6 races. He's beaten Hamilton in the other two.

So he didn't do too much in the first race? Strange?
He had 2 pretty torrid races after that but came back very well in Spain where there was no chance of beating the Ferrari. Ending up on the podium was a the best he could do.
Bahrain was a great effort with a compromised strategy and Monoco was a masterclass apart from one small error.

So, he's double his team mates points, is leading the WDC with a car which is not the best out there and you don't think that's pretty bloody good :confused: Credit where credits due eh?



Like Hamilton, Raikkonen's been inconsistent. That's a trait that Raikkonen has had from day one. He goes through a trough in form from time-to-time. Despite Monaco I still think he's the man to beat this season.

Massa had a horrible start but has scored more points than anybody else in the last 4 races. He's cut out the errors and is consistently quick. He's the best qualifier of the top 4 and has a real shot at the title. If he can keep his head.

Nothing like sitting on the fence.

"Well, Kimi's going to be the man to beat this season and Massa has a real shot at the title" :laugh:

Seriously, it should be one of the Ferrari drivers up there for the title as it is the best car but they need to shape their act up. Massa, to his credit, has shaped up as you say but I always feel he's a minute overdrive from disaster at any stage. He had a lucky escape in Monoco (as did most people) so lets see how he holds it together in Canada and the Wall?

The rest I agree with

Hawkmoon
28th May 2008, 13:11
So he didn't do too much in the first race? Strange?
He had 2 pretty torrid races after that but came back very well in Spain where there was no chance of beating the Ferrari. Ending up on the podium was a the best he could do.
Bahrain was a great effort with a compromised strategy and Monoco was a masterclass apart from one small error.

So, he's double his team mates points, is leading the WDC with a car which is not the best out there and you don't think that's pretty bloody good :confused: Credit where credits due eh?




Nothing like sitting on the fence.

"Well, Kimi's going to be the man to beat this season and Massa has a real shot at the title" :laugh:

Seriously, it should be one of the Ferrari drivers up there for the title as it is the best car but they need to shape their act up. Massa, to his credit, has shaped up as you say but I always feel he's a minute overdrive from disaster at any stage. He had a lucky escape in Monoco (as did most people) so lets see how he holds it together in Canada and the Wall?

The rest I agree with

I gave Hamilton his credit for the last two races. He drove very well in both. The rest have been either rubbish or nothing special. He hasn't had the consistency that he displayed at the start of 2007.

When Kovalainen's car hasn't fallen apart or safety cars screwed with his race he's been a match for Hamilton.

As for the Ferraris, I'm not really sitting on the fence. I believe that Raikkonen is the man to beat but that Massa has a shot if he keeps his head. How's that sitting on the fence?

Knock-on
28th May 2008, 13:18
I gave Hamilton his credit for the last two races. He drove very well in both. The rest have been either rubbish or nothing special. He hasn't had the consistency that he displayed at the start of 2007.

He won the first race and that is either rubbish or nothing special :confused: He qualified on pole and brought it home in 1st while his "regarded" team mate started in 3rd and went backward 2 places with no car issues to blame it on :confused:

He has won 2 races this year with 2 other drivers, both Ferrari's, taking another 2 a piece. He is the only non-Ferrari to win and is leading the WDC in a car that isn't the best out there.

He really is crap that Hamilton. If he gets any worse he might just end up winning the championship :laugh:


As for the Ferraris, I'm not really sitting on the fence. I believe that Raikkonen is the man to beat but that Massa has a shot if he keeps his head. How's that sitting on the fence?

We call that 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other :p :

dc10
28th May 2008, 13:21
What does that mean? Sorry, couldn't understand. :p :

In English it means something pretty but useless.

Knock-on
28th May 2008, 13:25
In English it means something pretty but useless.

Nearly :)


A white elephant is a valuable possession whose cost (particularly cost of upkeep) exceeds its supposed usefulness, and it is therefore a liability. The term derives from the sacred white elephants kept by traditional Southeast Asian monarchs in Burma, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia. To possess a white elephant was regarded (and is still regarded in Thailand and Burma) as a sign that the monarch was ruling with justice and the kingdom was blessed with peace and prosperity.[1] The tradition derives from tales in the scriptures which associate a white elephant with the birth of Buddha, as his mother was reputed to have dreamed of a white elephant presenting her with a lotus flower, a symbol of wisdom and purity, on the eve of giving birth.[2] Because the animals were considered sacred and laws protected them from labor, receiving a "gift" of a white elephant from a monarch was both a blessing and a curse: a blessing because of the animalís sacred nature and a curse because the animal could not be put to practical use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_elephant

I think that sums it up perfectly :laugh:

Sleeper
28th May 2008, 13:37
I'm surprised that people are saying Honda are where they thought they would be, I seem to remember most here thinking they would be at the back come Melbourne, and look at them, qualifying just outside the top 10 in every race with a car that seems to be better in the races than qualy (though not by much). As for Button, he's been faster in the races than Rubens at Malaysia, Bahrain, Spain (where he ran with a much heavier fuel load at the start of the race) and Turky but made a bad mistake in Monaco and seemed to have a damaged car for most the race (I could see something flapping underneath it whenever he was in shot going through the swimming pool).

Come on, how many of you actually thought they would ahve 6 points by now and would be in the midfield scrap? Be honest.

CNR
28th May 2008, 14:15
mark has had 5 races with out the red bull gearbox packin up how long will this last.

jens
28th May 2008, 14:40
We should give some credit to Hamilton - after all he is leading the WDC in an inferior car. If anyone among the top contenders has underperformed, then they are the Ferrari guys.

Yeah, Honda has been better than expected after the winter tests, but still nothing special and are continually worse than for example that useless Toyota, which makes Honda even more useless. :dozey:

But if we compare expectations before winter tests and the results now, then the expectations were a lot higher. The expectations about Honda are always higher than the actual results - I wonder why. Probably folks believe that they can't fail forever?! :)

I personally have been impressed by Red Bull's consistency this season (at least with one car) and they look like a very strong candidate for P4 in the WCC. Also they are beating their engine supplier Renault and if we are to believe the rumours that Renault's engine is worse than others', then it makes only wonder, what could RB do with another engine?! Maybe the decision to switch from Ferrari to Renault after 2006 wasn't such good decision at all like it was served in the beginning - back then it wasn't known that Renault will be the biggest loser of the engine freeze...

N. Jones
28th May 2008, 18:37
After a third of the way through I'm happy to see:

Kubica and BMW show some pace early on, even though, according to Kubica they seem to have fallen off. This is not true in the battle between he and Heidfeld.
Ferrari are where most expected, at the top. A struggle in Australia has since seen them on every podium since, even if both drivers have made some goofs throughout the season.
Mark Webber consistently in the top seven. No one is talking about him unlike past seasons and that is good. It means there is nothing people can fault him on. Will a better drive show up next year?
Kaz Nakijima has not run into anyone recently. Plus he scored some points last race. Unlike some other rookies and second year drivers he seems to be learning without being expected to finish 4th or better each race. Sometimes I wonder what happened to starting with no expectations and working your way up...

At the same time I am disappointed to see:

Heidfeld falling off the pace of his teammate. Where has he gone? Didn't he start ninth in Turkey and 13th in Monaco? I think they may have to start running him with a lighter fuel load...
Toyota back to obscurity. Trulli was running so well but lately, wha' happened? He was 11th I think in Monaco for no real reason. Some people had hopes that Timo Glock was going to run well but so far I think he has averaged a 12th place finish. He looks "race-y" for lack of a better term but he is always out of the top 8. I just do not understand this team.
DC, period. His teammate is just doing his thing with no complaints but DC has been grumpy and a target for other cars so far this season. While his knowledge has definitely helped the team I am starting to believe it is time for him to go.
The Death of Super Aguri. It's always nice to root for the underdog. Sato's pass on Alonso in last year's Canadian GP was a highlight for a lot of people. But their financial troubles brought dark clouds over their season; which was soon to end in Turkey.

I am not disappointed in Piquet. He is in a car that hasn't done much to begin with. It is obvious that a good to great driver is needed to put it in the points (see Kovalianen in the 2nd half of last year and Alonso this year). I agree that last year he ran his mouth a little to much but he is learning and it takes time for some drivers. Everybody needs to stop looking at Kubica and Hamilton and realize that Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Alonso, along with countless other greats, started with smaller teams and worked their way up.

Like I said earlier, I just don't understand this instant gratification teams have.

N. Jones
28th May 2008, 19:03
Come on, how many of you actually thought they would have 6 points by now and would be in the midfield scrap? Be honest.


:wave:
I did! That's why I picked them for my FGP team. I knew Brawn would help that team somehow; even if the car was done before he arrived.

N. Jones
28th May 2008, 19:06
Yeah, Honda has been better than expected after the winter tests, but still nothing special and are continually worse than for example that useless Toyota, which makes Honda even more useless. :dozey:

But if we compare expectations before winter tests and the results now, then the expectations were a lot higher. The expectations about Honda are always higher than the actual results - I wonder why. Probably folks believe that they can't fail forever?! :)



So, if we expect the unexpected before it's expected then we shouldn't expect anything less than what we expected?
:D

jens
28th May 2008, 20:13
So, if we expect the unexpected before it's expected then we shouldn't expect anything less than what we expected?
:D

Reading this question caused me a headache. :p :

N. Jones
28th May 2008, 21:22
Reading this question caused me a headache. :p :

:laugh:
I was just trying to paraphrase your statement into a question. You used the word expect an awful lot in that post. :D

N. Jones
28th May 2008, 21:24
:wave:
I did! That's why I picked them for my FGP team. I knew Brawn would help that team somehow; even if the car was done before he arrived.

I meant after he arrived... not before!

donKey jote
28th May 2008, 21:58
What does that mean? Sorry, couldn't understand. :p :

Knockie must have got new glasses - normally he only sees Great Pink Elephants :p :

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Hawkmoon
28th May 2008, 23:39
He won the first race and that is either rubbish or nothing special :confused: He qualified on pole and brought it home in 1st while his "regarded" team mate started in 3rd and went backward 2 places with no car issues to blame it on :confused:

He has won 2 races this year with 2 other drivers, both Ferrari's, taking another 2 a piece. He is the only non-Ferrari to win and is leading the WDC in a car that isn't the best out there.

He really is crap that Hamilton. If he gets any worse he might just end up winning the championship :laugh:



We call that 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other :p :

Bloody hell Knockie, I said Hamilton's been inconsistent. How else do you describe him after comparing his races in Malaysia and Bahrain to those of Turkey and Monaco? He's been neither consistently good nor consistently bad? That's the definition of inconsistency!

I reacted to your comment about Hamilton "doing the business" and Kovalainen struggling by pointing out that Kovalainen has had all the bad luck and that Hamilton hasn't been "doing the business" all season, just some of it. I stand by those comments.

I think we can forget about the Ferrari drivers, otherwise we'll end up arguing in circles.

Sleeper
29th May 2008, 00:49
Bloody hell Knockie, I said Hamilton's been inconsistent. How else do you describe him after comparing his races in Malaysia and Bahrain to those of Turkey and Monaco? He's been neither consistently good nor consistently bad? That's the definition of inconsistency!

I reacted to your comment about Hamilton "doing the business" and Kovalainen struggling by pointing out that Kovalainen has had all the bad luck and that Hamilton hasn't been "doing the business" all season, just some of it. I stand by those comments.

I think we can forget about the Ferrari drivers, otherwise we'll end up arguing in circles.
I wouldnt say Hamilton underperformed in Malaysia as he would have been second or third if not for the pit problems, he was certainly faster than Heikki when in clear air. Bahrain's a different matter.

Storm
29th May 2008, 13:16
Bloody hell Knockie, I said Hamilton's been inconsistent. How else do you describe him after comparing his races in Malaysia and Bahrain to those of Turkey and Monaco? He's been neither consistently good nor consistently bad? That's the definition of inconsistency!

I reacted to your comment about Hamilton "doing the business" and Kovalainen struggling by pointing out that Kovalainen has had all the bad luck and that Hamilton hasn't been "doing the business" all season, just some of it. I stand by those comments.

I think we can forget about the Ferrari drivers, otherwise we'll end up arguing in circles.

:up:

ioan
29th May 2008, 13:55
Bloody hell Knockie, I said Hamilton's been inconsistent. How else do you describe him after comparing his races in Malaysia and Bahrain to those of Turkey and Monaco? He's been neither consistently good nor consistently bad? That's the definition of inconsistency!

I reacted to your comment about Hamilton "doing the business" and Kovalainen struggling by pointing out that Kovalainen has had all the bad luck and that Hamilton hasn't been "doing the business" all season, just some of it. I stand by those comments.

I think we can forget about the Ferrari drivers, otherwise we'll end up arguing in circles.

Exactly.
Heiki had bad luck for 3 races in a row.
In OZ was given the lesser strategy under SC.
And in the other 2 races did as well or better than Lewy.

truefan72
29th May 2008, 21:08
So he didn't do too much in the first race? Strange?
He had 2 pretty torrid races after that but came back very well in Spain where there was no chance of beating the Ferrari. Ending up on the podium was a the best he could do.
Bahrain was a great effort with a compromised strategy and Monoco was a masterclass apart from one small error.

So, he's double his team mates points, is leading the WDC with a car which is not the best out there and you don't think that's pretty bloody good :confused: Credit where credits due eh?



good one :up:

I pretty much agree with all your arguments expecept the spprtsmanship part ;)

but your points are more than fair and balanced.

truefan72
29th May 2008, 21:15
Bloody hell Knockie, I said Hamilton's been inconsistent. How else do you describe him after comparing his races in Malaysia and Bahrain to those of Turkey and Monaco? He's been neither consistently good nor consistently bad? That's the definition of inconsistency!

I reacted to your comment about Hamilton "doing the business" and Kovalainen struggling by pointing out that Kovalainen has had all the bad luck and that Hamilton hasn't been "doing the business" all season, just some of it. I stand by those comments.

I think we can forget about the Ferrari drivers, otherwise we'll end up arguing in circles.

hmmm, who won Australia Hawkmoon,

who's leading the WDC

Felipe, Kimi and Lewis have all been on the podium 4 times

He has only failed to score points in one race, Bharein.

His lowest points scoring performace was a 5th place ( due in large part to a botched pits stop)

If he's incosnsitent, then what does that say about every other driver out there. LOL

Hawkmoon
30th May 2008, 00:21
hmmm, who won Australia Hawkmoon,

who's leading the WDC

Felipe, Kimi and Lewis have all been on the podium 4 times

He has only failed to score points in one race, Bharein.

His lowest points scoring performace was a 5th place ( due in large part to a botched pits stop)

If he's incosnsitent, then what does that say about every other driver out there. LOL

Let's get one thing clear. I'm not having a shot at Hamilton. He's leading the world champiosnhip and deservedly so. I said Hamilton has been inconsistent and when you compare this season with the start of last season, then I believe that to be true.

Inconsistent doesn't automatically mean bad, just as consistent doesn't automatically mean good. Piquet the Younger has been the most consistent driver on the grid in 2008. Unfortunately for him he has consistently stunk up the race track.

I responded to Knockie's comment that Hamilton was "doing the business" while Kovalainen was struggling by saying that I believed Hamilton had been inconsistent and Kovalainen unlucky. I believe both assertions to be true.

Hamilton has had two great races, two OK races and two rubbish races. Winning a race doesn't mean you had a "great" race. Hamilton's win in Australia was easy because all his chief rivals shot themselves in the foot or fell foul of other events. Can anybody tell me that they believe Hamilton's performance in Turkey was inferior to that in Australia because he failed to win in Turkey?

ShiftingGears
30th May 2008, 07:58
Webber and Kubica have both been the most consistent pointscorers so far, and have driven excellently so far this season. I hope they both end up in racewinning machinery.

I was expecting Raikkonen to be more consistant and dominating, after the second half of last year, and somehow winning that championship.
Massa - recovered strongly from two early blunders. Will be interesting to see if he can keep his form up.

Heikki - terrible luck. Caught out by dumb safety car rule in Australia. Beat Hamilton in Bahrain, where he did not have bad luck. Tyre in Spain, puncture in Turkey and steering wheel change in Monaco. Has outqualified Hamilton with more fuel.
Unfortunately this may force him through no fault of his own to be the #2 driver. However he will grab pole and win races this year.
Hamilton - As mentioned, been inconsistent, and brilliant at other times. But you can iron out inconsistencies. once thats ironed out and he wins races like Monaco - those races can decide championships.

Sleeper
30th May 2008, 17:32
I'd like to know how having one bad race in 6 makes a driver inconsistent?

Hondo
1st June 2008, 02:02
High points:

Seeing Mark Webber's driving efforts finally being rewarded with earned points in a car that is Webber-Proof enough to get across the finish line. Fine job Mark!

Robert Kubica back on track and BMW just trying to quietly get the job done.

Watching all the "smooth" (slow) drivers getting beat by the car thrashing drivers the same as when the thrashers beat them with traction control.

Would like to see:

Coulthard admit his reaction times aren't what they used to be and voluntarily step out and away from the car. I think he'd be respected for that.

Webber on the top step, preferably through skill, but I'd settle for a lucky shot.

ShiftingGears
1st June 2008, 02:42
I'd like to know how having one bad race in 6 makes a driver inconsistent?

It's not so much the races, but in qualifying Hamilton at least twice has been outqualified by Heikki when Heikki has had more fuel. I was not expecting such a difference in performance there, and it gives the impression of being a bit erratic as far as performances go.

Sleeper
1st June 2008, 21:54
It's not so much the races, but in qualifying Hamilton at least twice has been outqualified by Heikki when Heikki has had more fuel. I was not expecting such a difference in performance there, and it gives the impression of being a bit erratic as far as performances go.
Maybe, but he was never consider a particularly good qualifyer in the lower formulas and aparently surprised himself with how well he was doing last year with in qualy.

Knock-on
2nd June 2008, 11:03
I must admit that Hekki has been a welcome surprise.

It goes to show that with equal treatment and joint #1 status, he is a very accomplished driver that can hold his own.

Ultimatly, I expect Lewis to finish comfortably ahead but Hekki will push him. Superb to see but doesn't say much for Freddie.

leopard
2nd June 2008, 11:07
I must admit Heikki's performance during second half of last year at Renault was better than that of today at McLaren.

He might suit more to replace Jr being the second to Fernando. ;)

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 11:12
I must admit that Hekki has been a welcome surprise.

It goes to show that with equal treatment and joint #1 status, he is a very accomplished driver that can hold his own.

Ultimatly, I expect Lewis to finish comfortably ahead but Hekki will push him. Superb to see but doesn't say much for Freddie.

You know, as many have pointed out on this forum, Lewis had many miles of testing at McLaren before he started as a rookie in '07. I'd say to be fair to Alonso they were on a level playing field from the get go. ALonso's maturity and experience kept him ahead at the start of the season, and as Lewis grew in confidence, so his driving improved.

I don't see any shame in how Alonso is doing at Renault, he is blowing Jnr away isn't he?

I do take your point though, Heikki is right there, if only for his misfortune, but as Ron and Martin have said - his time will come.

It's also nice that the two guys get on well as mates. Nothing wrong in rivalry, but Heikki is no recluse, so that helps.

ioan
2nd June 2008, 12:00
Ultimatly, I expect Lewis to finish comfortably ahead but Hekki will push him. Superb to see but doesn't say much for Freddie.

Either he will finish comfortably ahead or Heikki will push him, you can't have both! :p :

Knock-on
2nd June 2008, 12:28
Either he will finish comfortably ahead or Heikki will push him, you can't have both! :p :

Why the hell not.

You can finish comfortably ahead but not be pushed which is a walk in the park or you can finish comfortably ahead even though you are pushed.

You do struggle to grasp basic concepts :p :

ShiftingGears
2nd June 2008, 12:31
Either he will finish comfortably ahead or Heikki will push him, you can't have both! :p :

What if he's being pushed by Heikki holding a very long stick?

ioan
2nd June 2008, 13:14
What if he's being pushed by Heikki holding a very long stick?

:laugh:
Yeah that's what Knockie must have thought about too! :up:

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 13:15
Either he will finish comfortably ahead or Heikki will push him, you can't have both! :p :

It's quite simple really. Given Heikki's unfortunate issues not of his own doing, he is behind quite significantly in the points standings. He has however, shown himself to be very much capable of giving Lewis a run for his money.

SO, he is pushing Lewis, but is uncomfortably behind.

Howzat? ;)

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 13:17
What if he's being pushed by Heikki holding a very long stick?

F1 Jousting. I like it. Max is just mad enough (IMO) to go for it.

20 points for getting the stick in the airbox, -20 for gouging out drivers eyes..... :p :

Knock-on
2nd June 2008, 14:07
:laugh:
Yeah that's what Knockie must have thought about too! :up:

Well, to quote an analogy, Hillary is pushing all the way to the end of the Presidential race but Obama will win comfortably. :p :

ioan
2nd June 2008, 14:47
Well, to quote an analogy, Hillary is pushing all the way to the end of the Presidential race but Obama will win comfortably. :p :

If you would have said that Lewis will beat Heiki in the championship comfortably but Heiki will be pushing to beat him in the remaining races, I would agree with that.

However there is a need to differentiate between the race for the championship and the individual race that remain.

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 14:52
If you would have said that Lewis will beat Heiki in the championship comfortably but Heiki will be pushing to beat him in the remaining races, I would agree with that.

However there is a need to differentiate between the race for the championship and the individual race that remain.

Nah, English is not your 1st language. It's a case of Bill Murray/Scarlet Johannsen syndrome.........

Knock-on
2nd June 2008, 15:37
If you would have said that Lewis will beat Heiki in the championship comfortably but Heiki will be pushing to beat him in the remaining races, I would agree with that.

However there is a need to differentiate between the race for the championship and the individual race that remain.

So you wouldn't agree that Lewis is leading HK comfortably at the moment although HK has been pushing him hard all season? :confused:

I would say HK has been really competitive but has suffered some bad luck.

Are you trying to argue semantics for the sake of it?

ioan
2nd June 2008, 16:18
So you wouldn't agree that Lewis is leading HK comfortably at the moment although HK has been pushing him hard all season? :confused:

I would say HK has been really competitive but has suffered some bad luck.

Are you trying to argue semantics for the sake of it?

3 races out of 6 HL was at the opposite end of the race after the 1st lap, how's that "all season" ?!

ioan
2nd June 2008, 16:19
Nah, English is not your 1st language. It's a case of Bill Murray/Scarlet Johannsen syndrome.........

Let's see how you do in Romanian, Hungarian, French, Italian and German.
It's not my first language, however I think I don't need you to point that out. :rolleyes:

heiki might be pushing Lewis in a few races, but he has no chance to push him for championship position, and that's what we were talking about.

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 16:38
Let's see how you do in Romanian, Hungarian, French, Italian and German. Give it your best shot buddy.


It's not my first language, however I think I don't need you to point that out. :rolleyes:

Easy Tiger, that was a post in your defence sunshine. As in 'lost in translation'.

You missed that one 'nall didn'tya? ;)


heiki might be pushing Lewis in a few races, but he has no chance to push him for championship position, and that's what we were talking about.

No, we are talking comparable performance are we not?

Knock-on
2nd June 2008, 16:46
No, we are talking comparable performance are we not?

Yes we are and that was the point I was trying to get across.

Comparing championship position is pointless as it makes HK look like a Muppet who doesn't deserve his seat. If anyone claims HK doesn't deserve his place on his performance this year, they are blind :laugh:

I think that ioan may well have the wrong end of the stick. That, in itself, is a bit Tom Jones (Not unusual), but in this instant, he's thrown the stick over the bridge, into the stream, and we are awaiting a new development in the game of Pooh Sticks.

Will he let go and accept he might have misunderstood or will Captain Ahab go down with his stick :D

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 16:51
Yes we are and that was the point I was trying to get across.

Comparing championship position is pointless as it makes HK look like a Muppet who doesn't deserve his seat. If anyone claims HK doesn't deserve his place on his performance this year, they are blind :laugh:

I think that ioan may well have the wrong end of the stick. That, in itself, is a bit Tom Jones (Not unusual), but in this instant, he's thrown the stick over the bridge, into the stream, and we are awaiting a new development in the game of Pooh Sticks.

Will he let go and accept he might have misunderstood or will Captain Ahab go down with his stick :D

I tell you Knockie, something's gone Pete Tong innit? ;)

(lend us an Ayrton, I'm Jocken.......) :laugh:

ioan
2nd June 2008, 16:52
Will he let go and accept he might have misunderstood ...

I sure misunderstood it, cause it was badly worded. :p :

ioan
2nd June 2008, 16:54
No, we are talking comparable performance are we not?

Well, than he won't get it comfortably. Or are we comparing apples and oranges, again?!

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 16:55
I sure misunderstood it, cause it was badly worded. :p :

Sentence construction and the correct application of appropriate syntax is a very subjective subject..... :D

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 16:58
Well, than he won't get it comfortably. Or are we comparing apples and oranges, again?!

Don't think so. Two team mates in identical cars. I think the ability to compare relative performance in such circumstances is relatively straightforward.

Sure, setups and driving styles are variables, but all else being equal..... ? :p :

Knock-on
2nd June 2008, 16:59
I sure misunderstood it, cause it was badly worded. :p :

My spelling and grammer are terrible. I can only offer that I'm usually correct in my defense as you very well know :p :

SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 17:00
My spelling and grammer are terrible. I can only offer that I'm usually correct in my defense as you very well know :p :

wots rong wiv yer speelingg and gramma? ;)

donKey jote
2nd June 2008, 22:42
Let's see how you do in Romanian, Hungarian, French, Italian and German.


Sin tiaminte malidu Knockie edo SGWilko voragoviste choria ? :p :

:laugh: :dozey:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

ioan
3rd June 2008, 08:55
Sin tiaminte malidu Knockie edo SGWilko voragoviste choria ? :p :

:laugh: :dozey:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

However, I'm sure I don't understand Catalan! :D

SGWilko
3rd June 2008, 09:50
Sin tiaminte malidu Knockie edo SGWilko voragoviste choria ? :p :

:laugh: :dozey:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

I do hope one is being humorous... ;)

ioan
3rd June 2008, 10:38
I do hope one is being humorous... ;)

I only understood 4 of the words but that didn't help to much understanding the phrase! :)

SGWilko
3rd June 2008, 10:40
I only understood 4 of the words but that didn't help to much understanding the phrase! :)

You did 2 better than me then! I got SGWilko and Knock-on. :laugh:

The rest was all foreign to me! :rotflmao:

pino
3rd June 2008, 10:46
...back to the topic thank you :)

SGWilko
3rd June 2008, 10:49
...back to the topic thank you :)

Don't you just love those - I think it's the hazelnuts combined with the chocolate y'know Pino. ;) http://www.ciao.co.uk/Mars_Topic__Review_5529703