View Full Version : Force India ask the FIA to take action against Raikkonen*[Merged]*
They are unhappy and they are right to feel that way.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67725
I know people will say that it was a racing incident, however Nakajima was awarded a 10 place penalty after he crashed into Kubica in Melbourne!
I'm a Ferrari fan and I know they would do all they can to avoid a penalty but there should be consistency in the ruling.
janneppi
25th May 2008, 16:46
Indeed, unless there was something wrong with Kimi's car, a penalty might be in order.
superocean
25th May 2008, 16:46
it's not too far to ask for that but i'm not sure if that will happen. If it does it's not going to be for more than 5 places. I would have thought that force india would first talk to ferrari about getting some more engines for free instead of this.
SGWilko
25th May 2008, 16:52
Indeed, unless there was something wrong with Kimi's car, a penalty might be in order.
If there was an issue with the car, I doubt the team would jeopardise Kimi's safety by just bolting on a new wing and letting him back out again....
F1boat
25th May 2008, 16:52
They are very angry and emotional, but to me Kimi just lost control, to me if they punish him for this, they will create a dangerous precedent.
gloomyDAY
25th May 2008, 16:54
it's not too far to ask for that but i'm not sure if that will happen. If it does it's not going to be for more than 5 places. I would have thought that force india would first talk to ferrari about getting some more engines for free instead of this.Milk them for engines! Great idea. :p
I don't think much is going to come of this protest. Kimi just lost control under braking and should be ruled a racing incident. Nothing was done intentionally! I'm really mad over what happened to Sutil, but Ferarri shouldn't take a hit.
They are very angry and emotional, but to me Kimi just lost control, to me if they punish him for this, they will create a dangerous precedent.
The precedent was created in Melbourne when Nakajima got a 10 place penalty for the Malaysian GP!
Also Vettel was on the brink of getting a penalty for running into Webbers back it Fuji last year, he only escaped the penalty because it was demonstrated later that the whole situation was created by Hamiltons dangerous driving behind the SC.
janneppi
25th May 2008, 16:55
If there was an issue with the car, I doubt the team would jeopardise Kimi's safety by just bolting on a new wing and letting him back out again....
There was a mention of brake problems in Kimi's car in one news outlet, but unless its reported by others I don't think it that was the case.
There was a mention of brake problems in Kimi's car in one news outlet, but unless its reported by others I don't think it that was the case.
If that was the case than the team should be punished for keeping him on the track and for putting other peoples life at risk.
gloomyDAY
25th May 2008, 17:01
If that was the case than the team should be punished for keeping him on the track and for putting other peoples life at risk.I hope that's not the case. What an embarrassing decision by Ferari if such claims were true.
F1boat
25th May 2008, 17:04
I don't think much is going to come of this protest. Kimi just lost control under braking and should be ruled a racing incident. Nothing was done intentionally! I'm really mad over what happened to Sutil, but Ferarri shouldn't take a hit.
I agree 100%.
I hope that's not the case. What an embarrassing decision by Ferari if such claims were true.
I hope, and I think, it isn't the case. They might have the worst strategists but in terms of engineering they aren't that bad.
But then the blame rests on Kimi's shoulders and he should be treated the same way as Nakajima was for driving into Kubica's car's back.
Tallgeese
25th May 2008, 17:15
Don't know, but it looks like he (Raikkonen) lost control & while his accident was not done deliberately or out of malice, it was due to careless action. He should have been more careful coming out of the tunnel & it seems that the car slipped because he hit the brakes a little too hard. I believe that Raikkonen should be punished but that he lost out on points is seemingly punishment enough, I still reckon that a 10-grid penalty!
You have to feel for Sutil though.
elinagr
25th May 2008, 17:20
force india is like milk.. a team with expiry date
force india is like milk.. a team with expiry date
And? Who's perennial?!
aryan
25th May 2008, 18:04
I agree with most here in that some penalty is only just, and with ioan in that the precedent has alreay been set with Nakajima.
It was not intentional, but in criminal law, gross negligence is only one step lower than intentional. Kimi just felt he had to outbreak Sutil, on the one place where overtaking is possible in Monaco. What he should have considered was that the track was still partly damp in places, and the tyres not warm...
I'm in favour of a 10-grid penalty, and it's only just.
Daniel
25th May 2008, 18:28
This is a joke. Only someone who has completely no idea at all about motorsport would ask for a penalty. Kimi wasn't trying to overtake, he didn't intentionally take Sutil out or anything like that.
**** happens in everyday life and motorsport is even worse in that respect. Like I said in the chat room much to the displeasure of some people. If you want to see a fair sport where nothing unfortunate happens then go and watch lawn bowls. Motorsport is not for you..... Motorsport is a bitch of a thing and people have died through no fault of their own in the past.
At the end of the day everyone saw what a great job Sutil did and if he keeps up performances like that he will get a drive in a better team. I wonder if Bourdais is considering court action against God for the rain that caused him to aquaplane?
This is an embarassing day for motorsport in general.
F1boat
25th May 2008, 18:31
This is a joke. Only someone who has completely no idea at all about motorsport would ask for a penalty. Kimi wasn't trying to overtake, he didn't intentionally take Sutil out or anything like that.
I agree with you. He wasn't overtaking, he just lost control. If he is punished, I won't watch the next race.
Daika
25th May 2008, 18:43
I agree with most here in that some penalty is only just, and with ioan in that the precedent has alreay been set with Nakajima.
It was not intentional, but in criminal law, gross negligence is only one step lower than intentional. Kimi just felt he had to outbreak Sutil, on the one place where overtaking is possible in Monaco. What he should have considered was that the track was still partly damp in places, and the tyres not warm...
I'm in favour of a 10-grid penalty, and it's only just.
Criminal law got nothing to do with it. With your reason i can claim that Sutil is 100 % guilty. By getting into a F1 car Sutil accepted that there is a plausibel chance that he gets hit by another car.
A stupid racing accident from Raikkonnen.
elinagr
25th May 2008, 18:43
we will wear black if you dont watch next race :P
Daniel
25th May 2008, 18:54
Criminal law got nothing to do with it. With your reason i can claim that Sutil is 100 % guilty. By getting into a F1 car Sutil accepted that there is a plausibel chance that he gets hit by another car.
A stupid racing accident from Raikkonnen.
Anyone who gets in an F1 car and goes on track with 19 other guys has to have something wrong with them. I don't see how anyone doing 180mph on a street circuit with bumps and so on can be considered a "careful" driver.
I feel even more sorry for Sutil now. He drove a GREAT race in a mediocre car and now it's being overshadowed by this boneheaded behaviour.
Tallgeese
25th May 2008, 18:58
This is a joke. Only someone who has completely no idea at all about motorsport would ask for a penalty. Kimi wasn't trying to overtake, he didn't intentionally take Sutil out or anything like that.
**** happens in everyday life and motorsport is even worse in that respect. Like I said in the chat room much to the displeasure of some people. If you want to see a fair sport where nothing unfortunate happens then go and watch lawn bowls. Motorsport is not for you..... Motorsport is a bitch of a thing and people have died through no fault of their own in the past.
At the end of the day everyone saw what a great job Sutil did and if he keeps up performances like that he will get a drive in a better team. I wonder if Bourdais is considering court action against God for the rain that caused him to aquaplane?
This is an embarassing day for motorsport in general.
And.............
I agree with you. He wasn't overtaking, he just lost control. If he is punished, I won't watch the next race.
The incident SHOULD be investigated. It is possible that it was just an accident, but there are honest accidents & avoidable accidents (i.e. Schumacher versus Hill 1994, & versus Villneuve in 1996) that were both caused by malice. On the other hand, this one seems to have been avoidable, & I say that telemetry & testimonies must be taken into consideration.
Daniel
25th May 2008, 19:04
And.............
The incident SHOULD be investigated. It is possible that it was just an accident, but there are honest accidents & avoidable accidents (i.e. Schumacher versus Hill 1994, & versus Villneuve in 1996) that were both caused by malice. On the other hand, this one seems to have been avoidable, & I say that telemetry & testimonies must be taken into consideration.
What if it's found to be driver error? Should we ban all drivers who contact other drivers on track? Or should it only apply to drivers in top cars when they go and hit a driver in a low level team which is having a good day and on course for some well needed points.
What about DC? He had the same accident. It was just lucky that there was no one in front of him. I think if Kimi gets penalised then penalise DC as well.
Robinho
25th May 2008, 19:23
the nakajima incident was causing an avoidable accident - running inti the back of a car inder safety car was stupid and very avoidable.
losing the car on the breaks out of the tunnel on a wet/dry track just after the safety car - definately an accident, not really avoidable by the driver, just an unfortuante mistake.
if you penalise Kimi, then you should also penalise DC - he did the same thing in Qually, altho he didn't hit anyone else, and in fact Kimi did a better job of saving the slide(s).
if he'd been trying to overtake i would say penalise, this was just Kimi's accident that unfortunately became Sutils too, very sad for Sutil and they are rightly upset, but i'd be cautious to aportion too much blame to Kimi (depiste his ropey race to that point)
Brown, Jon Brow
25th May 2008, 19:24
Kimi lost it under brakes, Sutil was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Accidents happen when you're driving an 800BHP car, on dry tyres, on a tight, damp, slippery street circuit!
They should shake hands and then Kimi should buy Sutil a pint. :beer:
gloomyDAY
25th May 2008, 19:26
No penalty! (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67754)
Daniel
25th May 2008, 19:30
the nakajima incident was causing an avoidable accident - running inti the back of a car inder safety car was stupid and very avoidable.
losing the car on the breaks out of the tunnel on a wet/dry track just after the safety car - definately an accident, not really avoidable by the driver, just an unfortuante mistake.
if you penalise Kimi, then you should also penalise DC - he did the same thing in Qually, altho he didn't hit anyone else, and in fact Kimi did a better job of saving the slide(s).
if he'd been trying to overtake i would say penalise, this was just Kimi's accident that unfortunately became Sutils too, very sad for Sutil and they are rightly upset, but i'd be cautious to aportion too much blame to Kimi (depiste his ropey race to that point)
:up:
Kimi lost it under brakes, Sutil was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Accidents happen when you're driving an 800BHP car, on dry tyres, on a tight, damp, slippery street circuit!
They should shake hands and then Kimi should buy Sutil a pint. :beer:
:up:
Robinho
25th May 2008, 19:35
pretty unrelated, but i was impressede by Nakajima today - point for a rookie at a wet Monaco after a few questionable incidents was very good
elinagr
25th May 2008, 19:35
if kimi receives a penalty, for sure force india will have blown engines all season..
gloomyDAY
25th May 2008, 19:42
No penalty! (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67754)
if kimi receives a penalty, for sure force india will have blown engines all season..I guess Force India will be given prestine engines.
Tallgeese
25th May 2008, 19:44
What if it's found to be driver error? Should we ban all drivers who contact other drivers on track? Or should it only apply to drivers in top cars when they go and hit a driver in a low level team which is having a good day and on course for some well needed points.
What about DC? He had the same accident. It was just lucky that there was no one in front of him. I think if Kimi gets penalised then penalise DC as well.
He should be investigated. Errors to happen, but I don't think it was done out of malice or pre-meditation (unlke Schumacher in 94 & 96, the latter incident resulting in his disqualification from the driver's championship despite being second on points) but still it looked avoidable.
I agree, Coulthard also MUST be punished for an avoidable accident. He ruined Sebastian Bourdais' race, & even Glock cause several near misses. Glock is wreakless, & should be stripped of his Super License immediately if not sooner, & I also think that ALL INCIDENTS must be dealt with in the same manner.
the nakajima incident was causing an avoidable accident - running inti the back of a car inder safety car was stupid and very avoidable.
losing the car on the breaks out of the tunnel on a wet/dry track just after the safety car - definately an accident, not really avoidable by the driver, just an unfortuante mistake.
if you penalise Kimi, then you should also penalise DC - he did the same thing in Qually, altho he didn't hit anyone else, and in fact Kimi did a better job of saving the slide(s).
if he'd been trying to overtake i would say penalise, this was just Kimi's accident that unfortunately became Sutils too, very sad for Sutil and they are rightly upset, but i'd be cautious to aportion too much blame to Kimi (depiste his ropey race to that point)
The issue is yes (as to all) as Nakajima caused an avoidable accident on more than one occasion. Glock I believe is an unsafe driver & should be removed where Nakajima has caused some notable incidents in his brief career. Fisichella (for instance) in Turkey caused an avoidable accident against (ironically enough) Nakajima & even last year, his re-entry into the race resulted in a piggy-back crash of then Spyker-Ferrari's Sakon Yamamoto (the master of accidents) but again, the driver behind is responsible & Fisichella himself was found to have broken re-entry procedures after his slide into the grass. Both should have been penalised.
Sutil is 100% not guilty, whereas one cannot say the same of the world champion but it doesn't look deliberate even if it was avoidable. Still, an investigation must be launched.
gloomyDAY
25th May 2008, 19:54
I agree, Coulthard also MUST be punished for an avoidable accident. He ruined Sebastian Bourdais' race....Wait, what?
I thought Coulthard crashed and then Bourdais slammed in from behind. I thought it was peculiar how two Red Bull cars, granted from different teams, ate **** on the same corner.
You can't blame David, but I still want to see someone capable in the RBR machine.
Tallgeese
25th May 2008, 20:01
Wait, what?
I thought Coulthard crashed and then Bourdais slammed in from behind. I thought it was peculiar how two Red Bull cars, granted from different teams, ate **** on the same corner.
You can't blame David, but I still want to see someone capable in the RBR machine.
Bourdais is responsible but it was difficult to avoid Coulthard. In any case, I don't say we condemn Coulthard, he's a capable driver but he caused an avoidable inicident.
Oddly enough remember at Fuji when Vettel slammed into the back of Mark Webber!
elinagr
25th May 2008, 20:02
ahhaahh A BOOMERANG FOR SUTIL..
HAVE A LOOK
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080525205209.shtml
The FIA representatives officially warned the Force India driver for overtaking three drivers under yellow flags on lap 13.
"The stewards warn the driver of car 20 as to his future behaviour," part of the stewards' statement issued at Monte Carlo read.
Daniel
25th May 2008, 20:10
Bourdais is responsible but it was difficult to avoid Coulthard. In any case, I don't say we condemn Coulthard, he's a capable driver but he caused an avoidable inicident.
Bourdais was already in the wall when he his DC.
Lemmy-Boy
25th May 2008, 20:25
What a sad state of affairs. F1 has become a racing series, where grown men cry when they lose a little bit of Carbon Fiber. Boo..hoo...
Garry Walker
25th May 2008, 20:28
I agree, Coulthard also MUST be punished for an avoidable accident. He ruined Sebastian Bourdais' race,
Are you drunk?
elinagr
25th May 2008, 20:35
drink drunk drunk
F1boat
25th May 2008, 21:01
No penalty! I am not happy, because both drivers lost, but still I am relived that there will be no more misery.
...but i'd be cautious to aportion too much blame to Kimi (depiste his ropey race to that point)
No kidding, who's fault was it then?! F1 cars don't drive around by themselves.
if kimi receives a penalty, for sure force india will have blown engines all season..
Really?!
What do you base that on?
...unlke Schumacher in 94 & 96,...
Next time make that '97. Sorry for having to correct it, but it's the 2nd time on the same page! ;)
Are you drunk?
What a civilized language! :rolleyes:
What a sad state of affairs. F1 has become a racing series, where grown men cry when they lose a little bit of Carbon Fiber. Boo..hoo...
What about the team losing a few millions $ those points are worth?! besides the carbon fiber of course.
Viktory
25th May 2008, 21:31
No penalty is the correct decision in this case.
DC had a similar thing happen to him in quali, only no one was ahead of him that time. I am almost certain Kimi did not mean to do that to Sutil and he wasn't attempting a pass at that moment.
Garry Walker
25th May 2008, 21:40
What a civilized language! :rolleyes:
It was a serious question.
Mikko
25th May 2008, 22:11
What about the team losing a few millions $ those points are worth?! besides the carbon fiber of course.
I'm sick & tired of reading your pro-Felipe-posts...
I agree that Kimi should go to apologize Adrian & Force India for ruining their day!
But the question that arises is, do You IOAN truly believe that Kimi would have lost Felipe in such a drivers circuit like Monaco, if he didn't have some kind of a crucial fault in his machinery?
If that was the case, Kimi's all of a sudden lost all his momentum over Felippe, and underperformed like a pig?
IOAN, get a grip!
Kimi is and always will be in the level that that little Brazilian boy'll never catch! And that's a fact!!!
P.S. I'm glad that Lewis won the race, I would have been devastated if the midget from BRA took it...
Rule number 1: Allways do better than your team-mate!
I'm sick & tired of reading your pro-Felipe-posts...
I agree that Kimi should go to apologize Adrian & Force India for ruining their day!
But the question that arises is, do You IOAN truly believe that Kimi has lost Felipe in such a drivers circuit like Monaco, if he didn't have some kind of a crucial fault in his machinery?
If that was the case, Kimin all of a sudden lost all his momentum over Felippe, and underperformed like a pig?
IOAN, get a grip!
Kimi is and always will be in the level that that little Brazilian boy'll never catch!
I understand that you are frustrated because Kimi lost to Felipe twice in a row in Monaco, because he managed to kiss the barriers last year in qualifying and this year during the race, not to mention ramming his car up Sutil's Force India's rear end.
And because it's been a few times he is being outperformed in the last races by that superfast Brazilian guy and so on.
As for Kimi having some kind of fault in his machinery, what kind of fault? His acceleration pedal was stuck or what? Must be MS' fault!
But honestly what has this all to do with me?! Did I said something to you?Have I offended you? I don't think so.
BTW I'll continue to defend the drivers I like, if you like it or not.
PS: It seems that Felipe knows the rue no.1!
PSfan
25th May 2008, 22:31
They are unhappy and they are right to feel that way.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67725
I know people will say that it was a racing incident, however Nakajima was awarded a 10 place penalty after he crashed into Kubica in Melbourne!
I'm a Ferrari fan and I know they would do all they can to avoid a penalty but there should be consistency in the ruling.
Great story there ioan, I specially like this:
Gascoyne told UK broadcaster ITV that he believed that had the roles been reversed his driver could have expected a penalty.
"The frustration is that if that had been a Force India driver hitting a world champion we would expect to get a one or two race ban, but when it is the other way around it is disappointing that the stewards... well you know I hope they look at it and act accordingly," said Gascoyne.
But, if you use a Williams as a ramp... well guess thats a 5 position penalty... wait Fisi got his 5 grid penalty for changing a gearbox... I'm so confused...
A little advice for Mr. Gascoyne... if your gonna to suggest that another teams driver deserves a penalty for something, please don't do it the following race after one of your own has done something 10x worse!!!
SGWilko
25th May 2008, 22:31
This is a joke. Only someone who has completely no idea at all about motorsport would ask for a penalty. Kimi wasn't trying to overtake, he didn't intentionally take Sutil out or anything like that.
**** happens in everyday life and motorsport is even worse in that respect. Like I said in the chat room much to the displeasure of some people. If you want to see a fair sport where nothing unfortunate happens then go and watch lawn bowls. Motorsport is not for you..... Motorsport is a bitch of a thing and people have died through no fault of their own in the past.
At the end of the day everyone saw what a great job Sutil did and if he keeps up performances like that he will get a drive in a better team. I wonder if Bourdais is considering court action against God for the rain that caused him to aquaplane?
This is an embarassing day for motorsport in general.
I don't think anyone is suggesting for one minute Kimi meant to take out Sutil. As it goes, looking at the replays, Kimi did VERY well not to hit the barriers, his reactions and car control were spot on in saving that.
It was very clearly a racing accident. Saying that, Mike G made a valid point - as has Ioan, that the precedent was set with Nakajima.
Lets just hope that todays' performance lifts the Indian team to new levels. They were punching way above their weight today.
More of the same please F1. :up:
Tallgeese
25th May 2008, 22:37
Are you drunk?
No. I'm saying that Bourdais wouldn't have had to come out had it not been for Coulthard.
In turn Sutil is reprimanded by the Stewards for passing under yellows:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67745
No. I'm saying that Bourdais wouldn't have had to come out had it not been for Coulthard.
Wait a moment, Bourdais was heading for the wall, DC or no DC, he was out of the race because he made a mistake.
truefan72
25th May 2008, 22:49
I don't think anyone is suggesting for one minute Kimi meant to take out Sutil. As it goes, looking at the replays, Kimi did VERY well not to hit the barriers, his reactions and car control were spot on in saving that.
It was very clearly a racing accident. Saying that, Mike G made a valid point - as has Ioan, that the precedent was set with Nakajima.
Lets just hope that todays' performance lifts the Indian team to new levels. They were punching way above their weight today.
More of the same please F1. :up:
I think it is clear that kimi based on the Nakajima precedent deserves a penalty. In fact his actions were more consequential than Naka's
racing for high points postions.
I don't think Nakajima or anyone else intended or intends to hit someone diabolically, but it is not the intent , but rather the outcome that is of consequence.
Sutil was racing for 4th and potentially 3rd, Raikonen was racing to try and pass him over the course of the remaining laps. Raikkonen rear-ends Sutil and ends his race. Drivers make mistakes, but when they result in such a blatant affect on the results, then the FIA has tot ake action ( as was done with Nakajima). Anything less than a penalty will be seen as the FIA favoring Ferrari/the big teams with a serious double standard in terms of metting out punishement. If he got the same as Nakajima, It would be fair and reasonable.
veeten
25th May 2008, 22:50
or, basically, the same 'mistake' in the same area that claimed DC and had knocked the bead off Alonso's tyre.
Presently watching the replay of the GP on Speed TV, and the direction of Bourdais' front tyres were were counter, meaning that he was trying to collect his car from skidding and couldn't avoid DC, whom had already crashed.
This was a really disappointing sight to see Sutil losing an incredible result in such way. It's a real shame especially because Sutil and Force India may never have a similar chance to achieve such result again... :( Also if we think, what financial effect would that result and those points have had for Force India. As FI buys engines from Ferrari, then for compensation Ferrari should give free engines to FI for the rest of the season! ;) :p :
Oh... and Kimi went mad, when he realized that he was going to get beaten by the worst car. :D
SGWilko
25th May 2008, 22:55
I think it is clear that kimi based on the Nakajima precedent deserves a penalty. In fact his actions were more consequential than Naka's
racing for high points postions.
I don't think Nakajima or anyone else intended or intends to hit someone diabolically, but it is not the intent , but rather the outcome that is of consequence.
Sutil was racing for 4th and potentially 3rd, Raikonen was racing to try and pass him over the course of the remaining laps. Raikkonen rear-ends Sutil and ends his race. Drivers make mistakes, but when they result in such a blatant affect on the results, then the FIA has tot ake action ( as was done with Nakajima). Anything less than a penalty will be seen as the FIA favoring Ferrari/the big teams with a serious double standard in terms of metting out punishement. If he got the same as Nakajima, It would be fair and reasonable.
Problem of course is that Kimi took out Sutil while racing, Nakajima did it under the SC, no real excuse for that. But, in FI's case - nothing ventured, nothing gained by going to the stewards.
SGWilko
25th May 2008, 22:57
Oh... and Kimi went mad, when he realized that he was going to get beaten by the worst car. :D
Kimi has never struck me as that kinda guy TBH.
Mikko
25th May 2008, 23:05
Oh... and Kimi went mad, when he realized that he was going to get beaten by the worst car. :D
Oh. and you've went mad for a long time for realizing the facts that Estonians will allways be slower than Finns and made to serve us. No matter if it's WRC or F1!!!!
Bu-ha-ha-haaa!!!!!
Oh. and you've went mad for a long time for realizing the facts that Estonians will allways be slower than Finns and made to serve us. No matter if it's WRC or F1!!!!
Bu-ha-ha-haaa!!!!!
Sorry man, you are going a bit far today. I'll report your post and hope the mods will treat such behavior as yours in the right way.
Problem of course is that Kimi took out Sutil while racing, Nakajima did it under the SC, no real excuse for that. But, in FI's case - nothing ventured, nothing gained by going to the stewards.
Sure they gained something, publicity, a few more appearances in the news! This will get their lost 4th place on everyone's lips = more sponsor money! ;)
SGWilko
25th May 2008, 23:21
Sure they gained something, publicity, a few more appearances in the news! This will get their lost 4th place on everyone's lips = more sponsor money! ;)
I think they got noticed even before going to the stewards today, thanks to Sutil. Is this a turning point for him? :)
Mikko
25th May 2008, 23:25
Sorry man, you are going a bit far today. I'll report your post and hope the mods will treat such behavior as yours in the right way.
I see there's a Romanian flag on your ID, IOAN?
It's a god damn shame that they took you into EU, if it was up yo me I'd NEVER took you amongst us, until you had your things streighten out...
Oh. and you've went mad for a long time for realizing the facts that Estonians will allways be slower than Finns and made to serve us. No matter if it's WRC or F1!!!!
Bu-ha-ha-haaa!!!!!
What, didn't you understand a little joke? :D
By the way, Kimi had no reason to start messing in the end. He was 5th and considering, how hard it is to pass at Monaco, he just should have collected those points. But instead of this just a moment of brainfade... sorry, this is not a sign of a smart racer.
Maybe indeed he was annoyed that the car in front of him was a damn Force India. :p :
SGWilko
25th May 2008, 23:30
I see there's a Romanian flag on your ID, IOAN?
It's a god damn shame that they took you into EU, if it was up yo me I'd NEVER took you amongst us, until you had your things streighten out...
Can't imagine for a minute then why it is not up to you, did you mess up counting the milk bottles in class so the opportunity passed you by? ;) Still, you keep up the insults if it floats your boat.
I see there's a Romanian flag on your ID, IOAN?
It's a god damn shame that they took you into EU, if it was up yo me I'd NEVER took you amongst us, until you had your things streighten out...
Why do you insult me and my nationality? Why did you insult jens for his nationality? Why did you criticize Lewis' ethnic background?
And BTW it was under the Finish presidency that the admission of Romania and Bulgaria was decided! :p :
Mikko
25th May 2008, 23:46
Why do you insult me and my nationality? Why did you insult jens for his nationality? Why did you criticize Lewis' ethnic background?
And BTW it was under the Finish presidency that the admission of Romania and Bulgaria was decided! :p :
Because that's what I'm a like: Not a very positive person towards the third
world countries...
If it was up to me, Romania & Bulgaria would NEVER have joined the Europian Union!!!
SGWilko
25th May 2008, 23:49
Because that's what I'm a like: Not a very positive person towards the third
world countries...
If it was up to me, Romania & Bulgaria would NEVER have joined the Europian Union!!!
And your post is about Force India in what respect? :dozey:
Because that's what I'm a like: Not a very positive person towards the third
world countries...
If it was up to me, Romania & Bulgaria would NEVER have joined the Europian Union!!!
Did you ever visit any of these countries?! Do you know what is the reality there?
Do you have an idea if those people are deserving of what they receive?
I doubt it.
And your post is about Force India in what respect? :dozey:
Just wait to see his comments about India, now that you gave him an idea.
Mikko
26th May 2008, 00:00
Did you ever visit any of these countries?! Do you know what is the reality there?
Do you have an idea if those people are deserving of what they receive?
I doubt it.
Unfortunately, I have to deal with Romanian people almost every day in my work....
Romania got into EU because of their cheap labour!
And so did Poland, Baltic-countries & Hungary as well!!!!!
We (the Europians) did not want them in, but I guess the hard capital is what talks nowadays...
Unfortunately, I have to deal with Romanian people almost every day in my work....
Romania got into EU because of their cheap labour!
And so did Poland, Baltic-countries & Hungary as well!!!!!
We (the Europians) did not want them in, but I guess the hard capital is what talks nowadays...
Sorry for OT, but: What is your profession that makes you so... intolerant?
Mikko
26th May 2008, 00:11
Just wait to see his comments about India, now that you gave him an idea.
Use condoms, my friends, lots & LOTS of condoms in the near future (next 200 years)...
It would be great if there would be max. 100 million Indians & Chinese in the year 2108...
But I guess that's just my wishfullthinking....
Valve Bounce
26th May 2008, 00:12
Because that's what I'm a like: Not a very positive person towards the third
world countries...
If it was up to me, Romania & Bulgaria would NEVER have joined the Europian Union!!!
Do you understand that racial intolerance is not condoned here in this forum?
PSfan
26th May 2008, 00:20
Well... um... what are we talking about again?
Hopefully Toro Rosso are still around next year, so that Ferrari have an excuse to stop sending engines Force India's way... After Turkey this is pure hypocrisy!
Between KERS, Toro Rosso (or whatever they will be called next year) and A1GP Ferrari will be very busy next year... let Force India run Cosworths!!!
Valve Bounce
26th May 2008, 00:22
During the last safety car period I commented to friends in the chat room that it will be interesting how the cold dry tyres will perform after the SC period especially on a damp circuit.
From the gap shown in Live Timing, Kimi wasn't close enough to pass Sutil. According to Kimi, he hit a bump under braking and lost the ability to brake his car which started to fishtail.
Sure, we all felt sorry for Sutil, but there is no need to accuse Kimi of trying to pass a slower car and all that stuff.
Mikko
26th May 2008, 00:27
Sorry for OT, but: What is your profession that makes you so... intolerant?
My profession is a Logistics Supervisor in a big company that employs about 70000-80000 people Europeanwide. For some strange reason, all the trucks that are usually late of their originally booked unloading-times, come from these third world countries.
We have no difficulties with the Scandinavian or German trucks. I guess it must have something do do with the attitudes....
PSfan
26th May 2008, 00:47
From the gap shown in Live Timing, Kimi wasn't close enough to pass Sutil. According to Kimi, he hit a bump under braking and lost the ability to brake his car which started to fishtail.
Well, from the replays, Kimi was certainly to far away to be looking at a pass. I don't think it was a bump, rather the elevation change that unloaded the rear-end on Kimi, and got him all squirley, but either way, had Sutil not been there, or was even a little farther ahead, I think we would be praising Kimi for an unbelievable save instead of damning him for taking out Sutil. I just wonder what the opinions would have been had Kimi managed to score some points after this incident.
Unfortunately, I have to deal with Romanian people almost every day in my work....
Romania got into EU because of their cheap labour!
And so did Poland, Baltic-countries & Hungary as well!!!!!
We (the Europians) did not want them in, but I guess the hard capital is what talks nowadays...
We should not continue this way but... just one thing:
Leave our countries be only in the flags under our names. The way you´re taking it in far from correct, and if I had to speak, I´d say that I also have to deal with people from Romania and Bulgara in my work. And BTW, maybe in Europe we look at the eastern countries as third world countries, but I can´t forget that not that long ago, Spain was also the third world for some (insert insult here) who thought they were top notch... and honestly, they can stick that up their asses.
And one mor thing: If it weren´t for a lot of eastern people, in some cases we (at least in Spain) wouldn´t know what the hell is a clef.
BUT:
We´re in a F1 forum, away from politics and all of that, and going back to the point, I think that even talking about a penalty for Raikkonen is nonsense. It´s a racing incident and if he deserves a penalty, then everyone should be penalised. The reason? They´re racing and the put in danger other pilots or can "trigger" an avoidable accident. Come on, all accidents could be avoidable if they were going more slowly! And all crashes between pilots too. Should Firman have been penalised for hitting Panis at Interlagos 2003 when his front suspension exploded?
Valve Bounce
26th May 2008, 01:34
"It was just a racing incident. I just locked the rear brakes on the bump and you cannot really slow the car after that. There was nowhere to go, and not enough space to try and avoid him."
Kimi did apologise. However, I think the supply of Ferrari engines to this team at a greatly reduced rate would be appropriate. :p :
Hawkmoon
26th May 2008, 02:39
Some people have lost the plot. :rolleyes:
If you want to punish Raikkonen then you'll also have to punish Alonso for running into the side of Heidfeld at the hairpin. In fact if Raikkonen gets a 10 place penalty for simply losing the car under breaking whilst not even attempting to pass then Alonso will have to go to the back of the grid for deliberately sticking his car up the inside with abosultely no chance of making a pass.
Comparisons to the Nakajima incident in Australia aren't valid because that incident occurred under the safety car, as others have already pointed out. Raikkonen didn't make a stupid move and cause an avoidable accident. He made a driving error and unfortunately collected Sutil in the process.
Yes it sucks for Sutil and Force India but **** happens in sports and Sutil has had his fair share of accidents. We can't go around penalise drivers just because the "plucky underdog" got caught up in a racing incident.
CaptainRaiden
26th May 2008, 03:57
Some people have lost the plot. :rolleyes:
If you want to punish Raikkonen then you'll also have to punish Alonso for running into the side of Heidfeld at the hairpin. In fact if Raikkonen gets a 10 place penalty for simply losing the car under breaking whilst not even attempting to pass then Alonso will have to go to the back of the grid for deliberately sticking his car up the inside with abosultely no chance of making a pass.
Comparisons to the Nakajima incident in Australia aren't valid because that incident occurred under the safety car, as others have already pointed out. Raikkonen didn't make a stupid move and cause an avoidable accident. He made a driving error and unfortunately collected Sutil in the process.
Yes it sucks for Sutil and Force India but **** happens in sports and Sutil has had his fair share of accidents. We can't go around penalise drivers just because the "plucky underdog" got caught up in a racing incident.
I agree 110%. I am sure that complaint to the FIA was made in the heat of the moment, with Force India the team probably emotionally charged, running high on adrenaline and not getting enough time to properly understand and review the incident.
I hope they understand it now. People who want Kimi penalized would probably want every racing driver penalized for making mistakes while racing hard or trying to go faster than their machinery would allow. It's ludicrous.
aryan
26th May 2008, 04:01
Having reviewed the incident, I stand corrected about the need to penalise Kimi. I guess I was a bit hot headed last night when I said he deserves a 10-grid penalty.
It was a racing incident, an unfortunate one, but a racing incident nevertheless.
I hope this can be a new start for Sutil and Force India. Boy how much more fun F1 would be if an underdog such as them challenges for points regularly.
They are very angry and emotional, but to me Kimi just lost control, to me if they punish him for this, they will create a dangerous precedent.
Agree entirely.
Kimi just lost control. Sutil was in the wrong place at the wrong time. If this creates a penalty it's a can of worms.
N. Jones
26th May 2008, 05:06
I'll join this party late by saying - he lost control under braking. He wasn't trying to make a move nor was he trying to setup one. Hell, find a video of the race and keep replaying the accident and you will find KR slowed down almost at the point when he exited the tunnel, i.e. very early.
I see no foul here...
cy bais
26th May 2008, 05:27
racing incident it was. i just hope if that happened to ferrari they can accept the same argument.
Valve Bounce
26th May 2008, 05:30
I hope this can be a new start for Sutil and Force India. Boy how much more fun F1 would be if an underdog such as them challenges for points regularly.
Yes!! there used to be such a team called Super Aguri, and Force India did all they could to have them out of F1.
Maybe this is Karma. :p : What goes round, comes round!!
Please keep this on topic and do quit the insults or somebody else will end in the banning-list...
cy bais
26th May 2008, 05:34
Yes!! there used to be such a team called Super Aguri, and Force India did all they could to have them out of F1.
Maybe this is Karma. :p : What goes round, comes round!!
karma police :)
elinagr
26th May 2008, 07:11
Ioan is the professor in here? what a loser...taking into consideration someone elses opinion and come into a fight
richj
26th May 2008, 07:39
I must admit my first reaction was that KR used the Force India to stop instead of the barrier. Having seen the replays I am still not sure. I guess the only person who knows for sure is KR himself.
Big Ben
26th May 2008, 07:59
Having reviewed the incident, I stand corrected about the need to penalise Kimi. I guess I was a bit hot headed last night when I said he deserves a 10-grid penalty.
It was a racing incident, an unfortunate one, but a racing incident nevertheless.
I hope this can be a new start for Sutil and Force India. Boy how much more fun F1 would be if an underdog such as them challenges for points regularly.
if they did that they wouldn't be underdogs any longer ... :laugh:
I can't stand the team (ferrari) so I can't be accused of being biased but to penalize somebody for losing control of the car in such conditions it's just stupid...
of course any of us could have done better... we are able to keep our couches under the control race after race.. but we are special
Big Ben
26th May 2008, 08:03
What about the team losing a few millions $ those points are worth?! besides the carbon fiber of course.
hey Ioan, I didn't notice you being so adamant against your favorite scared boy last year when he managed to hit FA every time the Spaniard attempted to overtake him.
Big Ben
26th May 2008, 08:05
Ioan is the professor in here? what a loser...taking into consideration someone elses opinion and come into a fight
did you get any points yet...? I'm amazed you didn't get banned already.
Daniel
26th May 2008, 09:51
I must admit my first reaction was that KR used the Force India to stop instead of the barrier. Having seen the replays I am still not sure. I guess the only person who knows for sure is KR himself.
I agree. I think Kimi should have tried to kill himself by nerfing it into a barrier rather than having the accident he had.
Can you tell I'm sarcastic? :p
SGWilko
26th May 2008, 10:06
Yes!! there used to be such a team called Super Aguri, and Force India did all they could to have them out of F1.
Maybe this is Karma. :p : What goes round, comes round!!
You mean Force India have been protecting their not insignificant investment, which is diluted by hastily set up teams with a very dodgy business plan, no long term sponsorships etc, that by using Honda engine and Chassis could beat Force India. ;)
ShiftingGears
26th May 2008, 12:36
It's those f***ing kids again I tell you...
hey Ioan, I didn't notice you being so adamant against your favorite scared boy last year when he managed to hit FA every time the Spaniard attempted to overtake him.
I don't remember any scary boy hitting Alonso, just Alonso using several other cars to make the corner (did with Massa and Heidfeld on a few occasions).
Was it because Alonso was under pressure, like yesterday at the hairpin?!
Having reviewed the incident, I stand corrected about the need to penalise Kimi. I guess I was a bit hot headed last night when I said he deserves a 10-grid penalty.
It was a racing incident, an unfortunate one, but a racing incident nevertheless.
I hope this can be a new start for Sutil and Force India. Boy how much more fun F1 would be if an underdog such as them challenges for points regularly.
After sleeping over it I agree with you.
To much adrenalin didn't help it.
And after all Kimi said he's " a bit sorry " for what he did to Sutil. ;)
aryan
26th May 2008, 14:43
After sleeping over it I agree with you.
Gee, this really is becoming scarry, me and ioan agreeing all the time! :p
Can we please call MS, Villeneuve and JPM back so that we can have some proper flame wars here? :D
I feel so sorry for Sutil and Force India, and while I agree with consistant punishment I just dont agree with the extent the FIA go to with the current blame game, just where do you draw the line?
Re- Kimi.. Was it really an aquaplane? To me it looked like he locked up the rears under braking maybe on a damp patch... OR... does anyone think it could be that his brake balance lever was in the wrong position for the chicane?
Can we please call MS, Villeneuve and JPM back so that we can have some proper flame wars here? :D
The good ol days! :D
markabilly
26th May 2008, 16:13
Crashing when passing or being passed is one thing, losing it while being on the brakes causing one to be running into someone else, is not nearly as warranting a penalty
elinagr
26th May 2008, 16:18
3erete ta oulla
Azumanga Davo
26th May 2008, 16:53
3erete ta oulla
Easy for you to say...
elinagr
26th May 2008, 17:31
:D
asphaultpainter29
27th May 2008, 01:48
U could easily tell Raikkonen did not intentionally run into the back of Sutil. Whoever thinks he did are not Ferrari or Raikkonen fans.
ArrowsFA1
27th May 2008, 08:30
A bit of an insight (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67775) into the incident from Mark Webber:
Q. Did you see Kimi crash into Sutil?
MW: "Yep and I was like this [rubs hands]. He was having trouble warming the rears, I could see that from when he came out of the pits. It took two or three laps to get the rears started. He wanted to push Sutil hard on the restart, but the rear tyres were obviously not hot enough."
Daniel
27th May 2008, 08:31
A bit of an insight (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67775) into the incident from Mark Webber:
So it's Weber's fault! :p
ArrowsFA1
27th May 2008, 08:54
Yeah, that's it. That's why I posted Mark's comments :dozey: Nothing to do with the fact that Mark could tell Kimi was having trouble warming the rear tyres.
Valve Bounce
27th May 2008, 09:34
Yeah, that's it. That's why I posted Mark's comments :dozey: Nothing to do with the fact that Mark could tell Kimi was having trouble warming the rear tyres.
I knew that! ;)
Azumanga Davo
27th May 2008, 10:19
So it's Weber's fault! :p
I see you learned from Australia's finest crime solvers too, I see... :p :
TMorel
27th May 2008, 10:39
Darn, and Kimi would have got away with it too if it wasn't for those pesky kids.
Daniel
27th May 2008, 10:52
I see you learned from Australia's finest crime solvers too, I see... :p :
*taps nose knowingly*
Knock-on
27th May 2008, 11:52
If you cause an avoidable accident, you should be penalised. I suppose you could say that all accidents are avoidable in that case. Kimi for pushing cold tyres too much is a litle far fetched though isn't it :laugh:
Kimi made a mistake by pushing the tyres too much, too quick, but this was just a basic driving error racing incident.
Everyone feels sorry for Force India but sh1t happens.
Valve Bounce
27th May 2008, 12:53
Love your sig, knockie!! :p :
maxu05
27th May 2008, 13:04
As much as I feel for Force India and Sutil, it was just an accident. Kimi clearly made a mistake and lost control, why should he or Ferarri be punished for that ? S..t happens in racing. If it looked like it was intentional, ok, but how the heck could you intentionally ram someone when you are all crossed up like Kimi was. Storm in a teacup IMO.
ArrowsFA1
27th May 2008, 13:07
Everyone feels sorry for Force India but sh1t happens.
I wonder what the reaction would have been had Sutil taken out Raikkonen in the same circumstances. Hopefully the same.
Knock-on
27th May 2008, 13:29
I wonder what the reaction would have been had Sutil taken out Raikkonen in the same circumstances. Hopefully the same.
It will happen to one of the top runners sooner or later so might be worth bookmarking this thread to compare peoples opinions :laugh:
Kimi made a mistake by pushing the tyres too much, too quick
Well, surely Bridgestone should make tyres that warm up quicker?
Ah, guess not, that only applies to silver cars.
Knock-on
27th May 2008, 13:42
Well, surely Bridgestone should make tyres that warm up quicker?
Ah, guess not, that only applies to silver cars.
If you continue to compare apples with oranges, you will only succeed to make yourself look more foolish :D
If you continue to compare apples with oranges, you will only succeed to make yourself look more foolish :D
You've set the bar so high in that, I would need performance enhancing drugs to give you a competition..
Can't do 'smileys', but if I could one would be here.
asphaultpainter29
27th May 2008, 15:00
U all are ****heads for not responding to my post.
If you continue to compare apples with oranges, you will only succeed to make yourself look more foolish :D
He was right! Someone else made a fool of himself in a thread about "apples" (read that tires) and "oranges" (read that a certain McLaren driver)! :p :
aryan
27th May 2008, 18:43
Guys, that tyre and Hamilton debate is a dead horse you are beating there! We are now moving to Canada and you are still talking about Istanbul?
Next thing you know, people will start talking about "parking techniques" in Monaco 2006 again... oh sorry :p
Valve Bounce
27th May 2008, 23:31
He was right! Someone else made a fool of himself in a thread about "apples" (read that tires) and "oranges" (read that a certain McLaren driver)! :p :
.................and pineapples for Kimi for hitting Sutil. It was on the cards that someone could come to grief with the cold tyres after the SC and on a still damp track - too bad it was Kimi. I did mention this twice in our chat during the race.
leopard
28th May 2008, 04:12
Am I missing some thread, no one discussed about Alonso and Nick incident. Alonso might be over aggressive and hitting Nick, it could probably also the cars were not touching he stopped the car right before Nick stopped and when Nick was making start the rear wheels were touching Alonso's nose.
I was in a not too good mod watching it, so cannot identify what happened.
Valve Bounce
28th May 2008, 04:19
I hope you did read the heading of this thread.
leopard
28th May 2008, 04:24
lately I am absent minded for being awry, too much pressure for mistake I didn't do.
Thanks Valve, :)
Melqui
28th May 2008, 06:01
The problems with Rules and money is in every sport, its hard to have fairplaying in almost all sports/activities.
leopard
28th May 2008, 06:11
Relative, to those measure everything with money will have opinion as such.
Who took the blame? Massa didn't get the proper grip immediately and can't avoid Kubica to be ahead of him. If not, Probably he can finish better or win the race ...
I like Sutil and have been rooting for him since he started in F1, but I must admit, I was just waiting for him to screw it up.
While watching it live, I swore that he lost control a split second before the Ferrari made contact. I've since analyzed the footage on YouTube like it was the Kennedy assination. It looks like he came in too hot and had to abandon his line. Just before contact he turned the wheel to the right. I might be wrong, but if I am right, getting hit by Kimi was the best thing that's happened to him so far. What almost was, should preserve his current seat longer than his usual method of finishing races.
Did anyone else see this?
truefan72
28th May 2008, 08:13
I too must admit that after a few days and my outrage over Sutil's departure diminished, I too see no reason now to punish Kimi.
BUT, he does owe Sutil something ala the goood old days of sportsmanship.
Send him a gold watch, a ferrari or something.
I don't think one can overstate how huge a 4th or 3rd place for Force India/ Sutil would have been at Monaco. sometimes the top 3 teams (and Alonso) might get jaded by podium finishes and such, but the sheer delight on Rosberg's face in Australia, and others, tells you how much it means to teams and their drivers.(nevermind the pocketbooks and sponsorship) Looking at the press conference in Monaco,one guy was beaming and the other 2 looked like they were at a funeral.
leopard
28th May 2008, 08:47
... It looks like he came in too hot and had to abandon his line... I might be wrong, but if I am right, getting hit by Kimi was the best thing that's happened to him so far.
You might think too that Sutil is hot.
I think wrong, how can we say being hit by someone as the best thing? :rolleyes:
Welcome, like any other new member, please introduce yourself :!: :)
kalasend
28th May 2008, 09:34
It was an unfortunate race incident and nothing more. Raikkonen should be the last guy to apply conspiracy theory on, IMO.
What is sad to see is that this isn't the first and only time Sutil impresses in wet. Why isn't he driving a better car already? I truly hope to see him in the under-driven Renault. (you know which one it is)
leopard
28th May 2008, 09:51
Actually, to conclude a great driver in wet is a camouflage, it needs more patience than speed, as such fortune determines more than strategy.
Valve Bounce
28th May 2008, 10:12
I like Sutil and have been rooting for him since he started in F1, but I must admit, I was just waiting for him to screw it up.
While watching it live, I swore that he lost control a split second before the Ferrari made contact. I've since analyzed the footage on YouTube like it was the Kennedy assination. It looks like he came in too hot and had to abandon his line. Just before contact he turned the wheel to the right. I might be wrong, but if I am right, getting hit by Kimi was the best thing that's happened to him so far. What almost was, should preserve his current seat longer than his usual method of finishing races.
Did anyone else see this?
No!! I didn't.
But if you have a link that you'd like to share with us that would show otherwise, then we'd be pleased to look at it and discuss it. But I saw the original during the race and the replay many, many times, and Kimi lost it and as a result could not brake, and came up and hit Sutil from behind. Since Kimi admitted as much, who am I to doubt the guy?
ShiftingGears
28th May 2008, 12:58
What Sutil needs to do is be as impressive in the dry conditions, then he will be hot property.
truefan72
29th May 2008, 20:19
What Sutil needs to do is be as impressive in the dry conditions, then he will be hot property.
I remember him going pretty fast at Spa before he ran wide after the first pit stop
http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=85879
according to the Swiss newspaper Blick, 25-year-old Sutil would have been demoted out of the points even if he had finished.
Steward Paul Gutjahr confirmed: "We would have had to give him a 25-second penalty, because he overtook three cars under yellow flags after the Alonso-Heidfeld collision at the hairpin."
A 25-second penalty would have dropped Sutil from fourth to at least 10th place.
I like Sutil and have been rooting for him since he started in F1, but I must admit, I was just waiting for him to screw it up.
While watching it live, I swore that he lost control a split second before the Ferrari made contact. I've since analyzed the footage on YouTube like it was the Kennedy assination. It looks like he came in too hot and had to abandon his line. Just before contact he turned the wheel to the right. I might be wrong, but if I am right, getting hit by Kimi was the best thing that's happened to him so far. What almost was, should preserve his current seat longer than his usual method of finishing races.
Did anyone else see this?
Yes, I though that too. I re-watched the footage and as Sutil is approaching the chicane, he does appear to lift off slightly and jig to the right fractionally. I got the impression that he was going to miss the chicane and go straight across. I feel that if he hadn't, Raikonnen would probably have missed him and he would have gone straight across the chicane.
Knock-on
2nd June 2008, 13:41
Yes, I though that too. I re-watched the footage and as Sutil is approaching the chicane, he does appear to lift off slightly and jig to the right fractionally. I got the impression that he was going to miss the chicane and go straight across. I feel that if he hadn't, Raikonnen would probably have missed him and he would have gone straight across the chicane.
I know what you're saying. It looks like Sutil has his wheels on opposite lock when there is a big bump. However, if you go back a second, you will notice an initial impact that Sutil immediatly reacts to with opposite lock to avoid a spin. I think there were two impacts one immediatly after the other. The first threatened to spin him and he corrects although would have had to straight line the chicane and the second is the bang up the bum we all saw.
I would imagine it was rear suspension that put Sutil out and would bet it was Left rear. I think that first knock when the car was angled was probably what did it as I was surprised from first impressions that he couldn't continue. Normally if you go up the arse of a car in front, there is no damage apart from a smashed nose on the 2nd car.
Bagwan
2nd June 2008, 17:17
Spot on , guys .
I just went to youtube and watched that sequence slowed down , and , sure enough , Sutil runs long into that corner and is correcting with opposite lock , a likely spin if he's intending on still making it inside the curbing of the entry to the chicane .
I guess we could forgive him a little , as he did have a WDC in a red car behind him , late in a race he where wasn't expecting much , for glancing in the mirrors at one of few spots where passing is possible .
And , since glancing in the mirrors would have shown him Kimi swerving wildly sideways , he might have been a little distracted .
In the end , I can forgive him the missed braking point , and , as Kimi appeared to lose it far earlier , I have to feel sorry for the lad .
He apologised , though , so I can forgive Kimi , too .
SGWilko
2nd June 2008, 20:35
Spot on , guys .
I just went to youtube and watched that sequence slowed down , and , sure enough , Sutil runs long into that corner and is correcting with opposite lock , a likely spin if he's intending on still making it inside the curbing of the entry to the chicane .
I guess we could forgive him a little , as he did have a WDC in a red car behind him , late in a race he where wasn't expecting much , for glancing in the mirrors at one of few spots where passing is possible .
And , since glancing in the mirrors would have shown him Kimi swerving wildly sideways , he might have been a little distracted .
In the end , I can forgive him the missed braking point , and , as Kimi appeared to lose it far earlier , I have to feel sorry for the lad .
He apologised , though , so I can forgive Kimi , too .
Well, I missed that on ITV, but he deffo gets out of shape before the hit. Nothing major though, he'd have maybe lost a place to Kimi if he'd not been out of shape.
That's a good spot. 10/10 to one and all.
PSfan
4th June 2008, 06:17
http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=85879
Good find... I figured if Sutil's passing cars under yellow earned him a warning after a DNF, then its safe to assume that had he finished in the points the odds where that the FIA would do a little more then give him a warning.
SGWilko
4th June 2008, 09:54
Good find... I figured if Sutil's passing cars under yellow earned him a warning after a DNF, then its safe to assume that had he finished in the points the odds where that the FIA would do a little more then give him a warning.
Well ok, yes, but what's he supposed to do, pull up, switch off, wind down the window and spark up a Gauloise until the 'monkeys' ahead swap insurance details?
The cars were stationary FFS, passing them was the obvious thing to do wasn't it? Didn't Bruno Senna or someone do similar in the GP2 race on the very same circuit at the corner before the hairpin? Did he get mugged by the epitome of consistency (the F1 Stewards)? :down:
PSfan
4th June 2008, 18:10
Well ok, yes, but what's he supposed to do, pull up, switch off, wind down the window and spark up a Gauloise until the 'monkeys' ahead swap insurance details?
The cars were stationary FFS, passing them was the obvious thing to do wasn't it? Didn't Bruno Senna or someone do similar in the GP2 race on the very same circuit at the corner before the hairpin? Did he get mugged by the epitome of consistency (the F1 Stewards)? :down:
Your kidding right? Heidfeld was already out of view while Sutil was passing Rubens and Kazu, the only car Sutil passed under yellow that was stationary was maybe Piquet... After watching the replay its really suprising the stewerts didn't catch it sooner because his pass on Ruben was so blatent under yellow....
I think it should also be mentioned that Kazu should get some credit here, He took that turn wide, and I'm sure he could have slotted in behind Heidfeld, but allowed Alonso and Webber to get going first (Kazu could have passed Stationary cars, but instead, Sutil passed a non stationary Kazu...
SGWilko
7th June 2008, 09:03
Your kidding right?
Nope....http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68041 OK? :)
Nope....http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68041 OK? :)
Exactly what I thought, the stewards at the Monaco GP were the worse I've ever seen, and this seems to be the case often at that GP.
For gods sake, the guy who was menacing Sutil with a reprimand is a Swiss, where did he develop his motor race steward career when motorsport is banned in the Swiss?!
The guy only attacked Sutil because his team had the courage to ask them to act because of Kimi's awful mistake.
The same stewards did let Kimi get away with a drive through when he should have been sent to the back of the grid! This says it all about their knowledge of the rules and their professionalism! :D
PSfan
8th June 2008, 07:04
Nope....http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68041 OK? :)
Pardon me if I take that article with a grain of salt, it sure is easy to say that "if" Sutil scored points the FIA wouldn't have taken them away, but the fact remains, they saw fit to give him a warning when they nothing else to take away from him, and its my opinion that had he had something to lose, he would have lost it...
And even if the FIA again only issued him a warning (even if he wasn't taken out by kimi), that would have been enough fuel for a formal protest from Honda, seeing as had Sutil finished in 4th Rubens would have only received 2 points giving them a tie with Honda with 5 points after 6 races with the tie breaker going to force india for the 4th place finish? since the pass on Rubens under yellow was the most blatent I would find it hard to believe honda wouldn't have protested based on what was at stake. In which case, the FIA would have been forced to lay down more punishment then a simple warning...
ShiftingGears
8th June 2008, 07:24
Liuzzi got 25 seconds added for passing under yellows at Fuji.
PSfan
8th June 2008, 07:58
Liuzzi got 25 seconds added for passing under yellows at Fuji.
Funnier still.... Guess who he passed under yellow to get the penalty... :p :
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19713.html
pits4me
10th June 2008, 01:02
Don't know, but it looks like he (Raikkonen) lost control & while his accident was not done deliberately or out of malice, it was due to careless action. He should have been more careful coming out of the tunnel & it seems that the car slipped because he hit the brakes a little too hard. I believe that Raikkonen should be punished but that he lost out on points is seemingly punishment enough, I still reckon that a 10-grid penalty!
You have to feel for Sutil though.
I'm thinking Ferrari's $#@% doesn't smell.
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