Robert Doornbos....... [Archive]

nigelred5

23rd May 2008, 14:02

jimispeed

23rd May 2008, 14:18

That's a beautiful car. F1 ish with out all the BS .

yeah yeah,I know, it looks just like every other european open wheel car in every other european series, but it's not. It's an AMERICAN open wheel car. How ironic. :)

I don't know if Indycar "needed" him, but he and his great personality would be a welcome addition to the driver roster. I think Indy is ready for a new Dutchman.

The DP01 is a beautiful car that looks very American. Instead of looking skinny and delicate, it looks like it could take a beating!!

Oh and Robert Doornbos almost beat this guy's rookie record.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jjZkTqk3Os

He's much more than just a personality!!!

I'd love to see a new Indycar with him in it!!

tbyars

23rd May 2008, 16:25

He's much more than just a personality!!!

Jimispeed, I beg to differ. He's not even a personality. Not even close.

Do a little name recognition with 100 motorsports fans "on the street" and I bet 3 out of 100 won't have any idea who he is.

Especially with the unification of the series, you need to keep things in perspective. In my mind, a "personality" would be a person who brings instant name recognition and a significant amount of interest to the series immediately. RD simply doesn't do that. If he were to decide to become a part of the series, he might be able to develop that, but to say he is "much more than a personality" is simply out of touch, IMO.

BobGarage

23rd May 2008, 16:38

In my mind, a "personality" would be a person who brings instant name recognition and a significant amount of interest to the series immediately.

the only ways you are going to get "instant name recognition" is to bring in the kids of once famous drivers.... marco, graham etc. or go sign some drivers from NASCAR

The first is not a sustainable way to get drivers into the series unless the old timers start breeding like rabbits.

The second, just isn't going to happen (just yet).

To get name recognition you need to build up the personalities of the drivers you have in the series. Promote the drivers to the public. Just like NASCAR does.

In Indycar they concentrate too much on the Roger Penske aspect of it rather than the Helio/Briscoe aspect. look at nascar and Dale Jr, Jimmie, Jeff Gordon etc are much bigger personalities than Rick Hendrick!

IndyCar needs to start whoring the drivers to the public in the same way it has done with Danica. The series just needs to remember to do that with more than one driver!

tbyars

23rd May 2008, 17:17

the only ways you are going to get "instant name recognition" is to bring in the kids of once famous drivers.... marco, graham etc. or go sign some drivers from NASCAR

The first is not a sustainable way to get drivers into the series unless the old timers start breeding like rabbits.

The second, just isn't going to happen (just yet).

To get name recognition you need to build up the personalities of the drivers you have in the series. Promote the drivers to the public. Just like NASCAR does.

In Indycar they concentrate too much on the Roger Penske aspect of it rather than the Helio/Briscoe aspect. look at nascar and Dale Jr, Jimmie, Jeff Gordon etc are much bigger personalities than Rick Hendrick!

IndyCar needs to start whoring the drivers to the public in the same way it has done with Danica. The series just needs to remember to do that with more than one driver!

Couldn't agree more.

My point to Jimispeed was that, in the scheme of things, RD simply isn't a "personality" at this point in time, certainly nothing near "far more than a personality." In the general motorsports scene, he's a nobody.

If he joined the series, then they could help make him a somebody, just, as you advocated, they need to do with a number of the drivers.

!!WALDO!!

23rd May 2008, 17:26

Jimispeed, I beg to differ. He's not even a personality. Not even close.

Do a little name recognition with 100 motorsports fans "on the street" and I bet 3 out of 100 won't have any idea who he is.

Especially with the unification of the series, you need to keep things in perspective. In my mind, a "personality" would be a person who brings instant name recognition and a significant amount of interest to the series immediately. RD simply doesn't do that. If he were to decide to become a part of the series, he might be able to develop that, but to say he is "much more than a personality" is simply out of touch, IMO.

BINGO, just because we may know of him does not mean 300,000,000 know him or 30,000,000 or 3,000,000 or 300,000 or 30,000. Take the last number as those who haven't forgotten about him.

His problem is he can't bring money. He had that in F-1 and in CCWS. He was suppose to have had some money for Minardi but it never happened, thus rideless and no more Minardi.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

garyshell

23rd May 2008, 18:02

I don't know if Indycar "needed" him, but he and his great personality would be a welcome addition to the driver roster. I think Indy is ready for a new Dutchman.

He's much more than just a personality!!!

Jimispeed, I beg to differ. He's not even a personality. Not even close.

tbyars,

I think you are taking jimi a bit too literally and out of context. I don't get the impresion that he was claiming that Robert was a "personality" in THAT sort of context. He was responding to what nigel said above. You Bob and Waldo are taking about personality with a big "P", I think jimi was talking little "p".

Gary

dataman1

23rd May 2008, 18:16

Gary,

I agree. They took it out of context. RD has a great personality but is not yet "A Personality" known by the US Racing community. You might get a different response in Europe however.

garyshell

23rd May 2008, 18:21

Gary,

I agree. They took it out of context. RD has a great personality but is not yet "A Personality" known by the US Racing community. You might get a different response in Europe however.

In fairness to the three of them, if you ONLY read jimi's message, what they said does make sense. I happen to read nigel's message right before I read jimi's which set a very different context altogether.

Gary

Nikki Katz

23rd May 2008, 18:35

Doornbos appears to be the only driver confirmed for Premier1. Somehow I doubt it'll catch on.
It's a weird concept. Surely part of the idea of people supporting football teams as logistical - you can't go and see or even watch on tv all of the games as there are so many happening at once. With motor races all the teams are in the same place at the same time; support isn't quite the same.
Then again, I thought A1GP was a silly idea, and that's sort-of caught on.

!!WALDO!!

23rd May 2008, 19:04

You Bob and Waldo are taking about personality with a big "P", I think jimi was talking little "p".

Gary

I am talking about people here knowing who he is. I see plumbing trucks in the area with that name. I truly believe this area knows the name of the plumbing company and not of Bobby. So 30,000 nationwide or about double of E.J. Viso until Sunday.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

CARTDM15

23rd May 2008, 20:08

who cares about "Personality" the guy got driving skills.He's a "hot shoe" as the guys would say.I thought open wheel fans were above the personality thing.You want a field full of Danica's.I want talent on display.I mean displayed on the track.

garyshell

23rd May 2008, 20:42

I am talking about people here knowing who he is. I see plumbing trucks in the area with that name. I truly believe this area knows the name of the plumbing company and not of Bobby. So 30,000 nationwide or about double of E.J. Viso until Sunday.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

I know that, and I agree with you. All I was saying though was the nigel mentioned BobbyD's personality, note the little P. Jimi's response to nigel said BobbyD was more than a personality. I don't think jimi was trying to suggest any sort of notoriety, they were talking about how personable the guy is. I am pretty sure jimi and nigel both would recognize that outside of a handfull of us virtually no one knows who Dornboros is. Hell, I bet it's less than the 30,000 you suggest.

Gary

garyshell

23rd May 2008, 20:45

who cares about "Personality" the guy got driving skills.

Who cares about personality, oh I don't know... only the sponsors. Remember them, they are the ones who pay the bills. Unfortunate as it may be, the sponsors care about how well someone deports themselves in public almost as much as they care about their win loss record. I am not saying I like that, I am just saying it is a reality of professional racing.

Gary

!!WALDO!!

23rd May 2008, 22:22

Hell, I bet it's less than the 30,000 you suggest.

Gary

I would hope that people that saw him win last year would remember his drive. Well maybe not as it was one of the best of the year.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

CARTDM15

24th May 2008, 05:29

Who cares about personality, oh I don't know... only the sponsors. Remember them, they are the ones who pay the bills. Unfortunate as it may be, the sponsors care about how well someone deports themselves in public almost as much as they care about their win loss record. I am not saying I like that, I am just saying it is a reality of professional racing.

Gary
Thats why I hope the "new" Indycar series go more international.They don't seam to be hung up so much on personality as here in the states.They crave talent drivers more than the US.Bourdais was the most dominated driver in the states for four years and he got no love like Rahal is getting for winning one race.

gofastandwynn

24th May 2008, 06:03

Oh note, I got back from the Speedway way and was thumbing throught the Official Program and they do have Robert Doornbos listed in the drivers section.

Other drivers listed who never turned a lap:

Alex Barron
PJ Chesson
Larry Foyt
Stephan Gregoire
Richie Hearn
Jon Herb
PJ Jones
Jimmy Kite
Jaques Lazier
Roberto Moreno
Franck Perera
Alex Tagliani
Paul Tracy
Al Unser Jr.

garyshell

24th May 2008, 06:40

jimispeed

24th May 2008, 10:17

Jimispeed, I beg to differ. He's not even a personality. Not even close.

Do a little name recognition with 100 motorsports fans "on the street" and I bet 3 out of 100 won't have any idea who he is.

Especially with the unification of the series, you need to keep things in perspective. In my mind, a "personality" would be a person who brings instant name recognition and a significant amount of interest to the series immediately. RD simply doesn't do that. If he were to decide to become a part of the series, he might be able to develop that, but to say he is "much more than a personality" is simply out of touch, IMO.

If you saw Robert Doornbos in the Champcar series, you'd know what I mean by "personality"......

The guy has a great head on his shoulders when it comes to racing, not to mention he can drive the wheels off a race car!!

Did you see how he handled Bourdais, and his whining at Mont Tremblant??

That was stuff that brings people to the races....

Plus, he can back it up. Put him in a car!!

tbyars

24th May 2008, 19:30

If you saw Robert Doornbos in the Champcar series, you'd know what I mean by "personality"......

The guy has a great head on his shoulders when it comes to racing, not to mention he can drive the wheels off a race car!!

Did you see how he handled Bourdais, and his whining at Mont Tremblant??

That was stuff that brings people to the races....

Plus, he can back it up. Put him in a car!!

Jimi, I'll say this again. None of that helps if no one knows who he is.

And no one knows who he is.

And so far, he doesn't seem to have the Personality (WITH a capital "P") to be able to attract a ride in AOWR. And, without that, no one here will EVER know who he is.

jimispeed

24th May 2008, 19:47

Jimi, I'll say this again. None of that helps if no one knows who he is.

And no one knows who he is.

And so far, he doesn't seem to have the Personality (WITH a capital "P") to be able to attract a ride in AOWR. And, without that, no one here will EVER know who he is.

With that said.... His talent will give him what he needs. You guys are amazing!!

nigelred5

24th May 2008, 19:58

Thats why I hope the "new" Indycar series go more international.They don't seam to be hung up so much on personality as here in the states.They crave talent drivers more than the US.Bourdais was the most dominated driver in the states for four years and he got no love like Rahal is getting for winning one race.

I wouldn't expect the The new indycar to be any more international than CART was say, circa 1993. Face it the series is firmly rooted in Indianapolis and the heartland of North America. They will I'm sure wlecome all comers, but they won't be looking to places likeIndonesia, china, dubai and south africa for races and sponsors to support the habit.

Sorry, but in the American motorsports scene, you've got to be good with the cameras, good and ENTERTAINING with the interview as well as a good driver or you aren't going to see the cash. No matter what the nature of the personality, fans and sponsors want to see STRONG personalities in and out of the cars. Look at drivers like Tony Stewart and Kyle Bush. They are both abbout 90% a_hole most of the time, but people and sponsors love guys like that because it brings attention. You can love or hate that, but in today's market, I doubt companies looking for sponsorship oportunities are looking for a boring driver with a dull personality, no matter how good of a driver they are. Noone wanted a thing to do with Bourdais. He's an amazing driver, but very weak un-engaging personality. No matter how much I tried to be engaged wit hthe lead drive of my favorite team, I couldn't get excited about him no matter how often he won.

If you want sponsors that actually do more than pay or a few stickers, they need to be relevant to the US economy and sponsors want an engaging personality to feature in thier ads and promotions. American racing is simply different than European racing.

jimispeed

24th May 2008, 22:21

I wouldn't expect the The new indycar to be any more international than CART was say, circa 1993. Face it the series is firmly rooted in Indianapolis and the heartland of North America. They will I'm sure wlecome all comers, but they won't be looking to places likeIndonesia, china, dubai and south africa for races and sponsors to support the habit.

Sorry, but in the American motorsports scene, you've got to be good with the cameras, good and ENTERTAINING with the interview as well as a good driver or you aren't going to see the cash. No matter what the nature of the personality, fans and sponsors want to see STRONG personalities in and out of the cars. Look at drivers like Tony Stewart and Kyle Bush. They are both abbout 90% a_hole most of the time, but people and sponsors love guys like that because it brings attention. You can love or hate that, but in today's market, I doubt companies looking for sponsorship oportunities are looking for a boring driver with a dull personality, no matter how good of a driver they are. Noone wanted a thing to do with Bourdais. He's an amazing driver, but very weak un-engaging personality. No matter how much I tried to be engaged wit hthe lead drive of my favorite team, I couldn't get excited about him no matter how often he won.

If you want sponsors that actually do more than pay or a few stickers, they need to be relevant to the US economy and sponsors want an engaging personality to feature in thier ads and promotions. American racing is simply different than European racing.

With that said, Robert Doornbos is a great fit. He's sort of a young PT type. He'll give it to you, and then take it away!!

garyshell

25th May 2008, 04:49

Jimi, I'll say this again. None of that helps if no one knows who he is.

And no one knows who he is.

And so far, he doesn't seem to have the Personality (WITH a capital "P") to be able to attract a ride in AOWR. And, without that, no one here will EVER know who he is.

You mean like Marty Roth, Jamie Camara, EJ Viso, Mario Moraes, Jeff Simmons, etc. Because those are all house hold names with lot of capital "P".

Gary

CARTDM15

25th May 2008, 05:32

I wouldn't expect the The new indycar to be any more international than CART was say, circa 1993. Face it the series is firmly rooted in Indianapolis and the heartland of North America. They will I'm sure wlecome all comers, but they won't be looking to places likeIndonesia, china, dubai and south africa for races and sponsors to support the habit.

Sorry, but in the American motorsports scene, you've got to be good with the cameras, good and ENTERTAINING with the interview as well as a good driver or you aren't going to see the cash. No matter what the nature of the personality, fans and sponsors want to see STRONG personalities in and out of the cars. Look at drivers like Tony Stewart and Kyle Bush. They are both abbout 90% a_hole most of the time, but people and sponsors love guys like that because it brings attention. You can love or hate that, but in today's market, I doubt companies looking for sponsorship oportunities are looking for a boring driver with a dull personality, no matter how good of a driver they are. Noone wanted a thing to do with Bourdais. He's an amazing driver, but very weak un-engaging personality. No matter how much I tried to be engaged wit hthe lead drive of my favorite team, I couldn't get excited about him no matter how often he won.

If you want sponsors that actually do more than pay or a few stickers, they need to be relevant to the US economy and sponsors want an engaging personality to feature in thier ads and promotions. American racing is simply different than European racing.
If you can't get excited about Bourdais talent then you don't like racing.I expect to hear that from a casual fan.

BenRoethig

25th May 2008, 12:56

If you can't get excited about Bourdais talent then you don't like racing.I expect to hear that from a casual fan.

Bourdais isn't here, but he was actually very good when interviewed. Don't worry he'll be back. He's a racer and like most will get fed up with F1 after a couple of years at backmarker STR. He will find out that talent means nothing unless you're at Ferrari. Hopefully it won't ruin him the way it did Zanardi and da Matta.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_Toro_Rosso

tbyars

25th May 2008, 17:01

If you can't get excited about Bourdais talent then you don't like racing.I expect to hear that from a casual fan.

No matter how talented SB is, even with 4 CC titles, he never captured the attention of the American motorsports fan. The CC ratings proved that, as did his lack of name recognition among the US sports fan in general.

Nigelred is absolutely right. You may not like that, it may not fit the way you feel things SHOULD be, but that is the way it is.

nigelred5

25th May 2008, 17:43

Look at the difference between say, Carpentier, Tags and Bourdais. Similar language barrier with American fans, lightyears difference in ability IMHO, yet who was more popular with fans? People saw through Bourdais from the first lap he turned, regardless of how talented of a driver he was, he didn't want to be here and he honestly never really looked like he enjoyed being here. Pat has a great engagaing personality, Bourdais just doesn't have that. It took 4 championships and it still took finally signing with an agent with ties to Ferrari to get SB one of the worst rides in F1.

I whole heartedly agree Mainstream American fans would/could engage with Doornbos's personality. Maybe if Bart Rietbergen really wants to convince Indycar to come to Assen, he should consider supporting Bobby D in a ride in Indycars for a while to generate interest in The driver and the merged series to demonstrate that there is actually a Dutch interest in the combined series that would benefit Indycar and warrant a race.

CARTDM15

26th May 2008, 02:56

No matter how talented SB is, even with 4 CC titles, he never captured the attention of the American motorsports fan. The CC ratings proved that, as did his lack of name recognition among the US sports fan in general.

Nigelred is absolutely right. You may not like that, it may not fit the way you feel things SHOULD be, but that is the way it is.
I was talking just about you