Thoughts on Barrichell's 257

[truefan72]

I'm a bit like warm on Rubens 257 record, as compared to Patrese's.

I 've felt that Rubens has basicall coasted these past 4 years and in most other circunstances would have been already replaced. He's benefited from some god relationships and isnow poised to break a record while producing or contributing very little these past 4 years to making this mark noteworthy.

He and patrese's career's are similar and if you look at the stats, it seems Rubens has had a better career. That may be so but Patrese finished is career very well as compared to rubens over the last couple of years.

Patrese, from 1989 to his retirement, had the best years of his career and retired with respect and on top of his game. That means a wehole lot to me. I know the honda isn't what it used to be and Rubens might be half decent if in a Mclcaren, BMW or Ferrari, but lookingat his last 4 years and in particular, 2005 with ferrar and 2006 with a good Honda, he was unimpressive. How he kept racing after 2006 is anyone's guess.

I hold Patrese's achievements in a higher light than rubens.

A legitimate ranking of longevity would be :
Patrese 1.
M.Schumchaer 2.
R.Barrichello 3.(a distant 3)


btw. Coulthard may be hanging on to beat that record :)

[Valve Bounce]

..........if you look at it this way, the two guys who raced those 2006 Hondas in 2007 on a shoestring budget and very limited development and backup seemed to achieve just as much if not a little more. I would quote Shredder:"Time to pack up and call it a day!"

[ShiftingGears]

..........if you look at it this way, the two guys who raced those 2006 Hondas in 2007 on a shoestring budget and very limited development and backup seemed to achieve just as much if not a little more. I would quote Shredder:"Time to pack up and call it a day!"

It's pretty obvious that the '07 Honda was a step backwards from the '06 car. Not down to the drivers at all. Everyone saw how good Sato is when paired with Button. If Button had crushed Barrichello like Sato your opinion would be justified. He didn't.


Congratulations to Barrichello to remain an asset to F1 for as long as he has. I think he has another one or two years.

[Valve Bounce]

It's pretty obvious that the '07 Honda was a step backwards from the '06 car. Not down to the drivers at all. Everyone saw how good Sato is when paired with Button. If Button had crushed Barrichello like Sato your opinion would be justified. He didn't.


Congratulations to Barrichello to remain an asset to F1 for as long as he has. I think he has another one or two years.

I meant these two guys were almost doing better with the 2006 Honda in 2007 than Rubens did with the same car in 2006. Well!! I guess I was wrong, because Rubens did remarkably well that year scoring 30 points. Sure he has another one or two years left. I hope he lives till he's at least 85 :eek:

P.S. I just wonder if he will be forced to make way for Sato before this season's end.

[CNR]

one more record

record for not winning on the last lap when he let michael schumacher pass him and michael schumacher gave him the trophy.

(maybe this record would be some thing if he was one of the all time greatest)
my two cents

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080507121459.shtml

[Tazio]

This could be very cool if they do it up right! :up:


Rubens Barrichello’s record-breaking Turkish Grand Prix weekend will feature both his car and helmet sporting special ‘257’ livery

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=42532&PO=42532

[Valve Bounce]

................and a request to move over for Taku asap??

[ArrowsFA1]

Team owners are not known for employing drivers based on sentiment, so if Rubens is still racing then he is doing so because Honda value the contribution he makes to the team, as did Ferrari and everyone else he's driven for.

At a time when we are seeing a lot of young drivers break into F1, putting pressure on those already there, it's good to see that experience is still valued.

Still...damn shame :dozey: :p

[THE_LIBERATOR]

He should never have accepted the Ferrari drive, it was a hiding to nothing.

[wedge]

It's pretty obvious that the '07 Honda was a step backwards from the '06 car. Not down to the drivers at all. Everyone saw how good Sato is when paired with Button. If Button had crushed Barrichello like Sato your opinion would be justified. He didn't.


Congratulations to Barrichello to remain an asset to F1 for as long as he has. I think he has another one or two years.

Unimpressed with Rubens last year. Bunsen got credit for turning around Honda whereas Rubens was languishing on the wrong side of the grid.

Rubens must know his time is almost up. He has a team-mate who has much more hunger and desire for success and there are drivers waiting in the wings who want to prove themselves in F1 more than Rubens does now.

[wedge]

He should never have accepted the Ferrari drive, it was a hiding to nothing.

Completely disagree. The only way you know how good you are is when you're up against the best.

He was good (if not then excellent) but certainly not a great.

Wasn't particularly keen on Ferrari's tactics but had little sympathy because RB knew the score when he signed the dotted line.

[Bagwan]

Completely disagree. The only way you know how good you are is when you're up against the best.

He was good (if not then excellent) but certainly not a great.

Wasn't particularly keen on Ferrari's tactics but had little sympathy because RB knew the score when he signed the dotted line.

"When I signed the contract," he explained, "there was nothing to indicate that the drivers would be treated differently."

Stop saying Rubens knew the score .

[THE_LIBERATOR]

By the time Rubens signed we had all known the score for years. If he wanted to be a World Champion it was a mistake.

[wedge]

"When I signed the contract," he explained, "there was nothing to indicate that the drivers would be treated differently."

Stop saying Rubens knew the score .

In 1995, Johnny Herbert was team mate to Schumi at Benetton and let the cat out the bag by accusing Schumi of being "Mr Mega" regarding the #1 status within the team because at the time he wasn't allowed to access Schumi's data and car set ups.


By the time Rubens signed we had all known the score for years. If he wanted to be a World Champion it was a mistake.

The only way Rubens was ever to be WDC was if he was teamed with an inferior team mate and a massively superior car to Hakkinen (who was better than DC - RB & DC were near equal since their F3 days) and Schumi - if he wasn't his team mate or Schumi being out for a number of races.

[jens]

Going to Ferrari was the right decision. Okay, he didn't become a champion there, but where else would he have achieved that, especially as Ferrari dominated several seasons? Don't think McLaren would have hired him. I guess that after refusing Ferrari's drive he would have trundled somewhere in a team like Jaguar and could have possibly achieved no wins until now. After 2005 he left Ferrari with the hope to become WDC. Did he? Instead of this he hasn't scored for 21 consecutive races and also has got beaten by team-mate. Clear proof that often being a #2 in a top team is better than a #1 in an average team.

[Bagwan]

In 1995, Johnny Herbert was team mate to Schumi at Benetton and let the cat out the bag by accusing Schumi of being "Mr Mega" regarding the #1 status within the team because at the time he wasn't allowed to access Schumi's data and car set ups.



The only way Rubens was ever to be WDC was if he was teamed with an inferior team mate and a massively superior car to Hakkinen (who was better than DC - RB & DC were near equal since their F3 days) and Schumi - if he wasn't his team mate or Schumi being out for a number of races.

When Rubens came in , he replaced another driver who was rumoured to have a #2 stamped on his contract .
That's why it was important that Rubens saw nothing in the words to that end .
He knew he was not going to come in a challenge right away , but it later became more than evident that he would never be allowed to ever be a real contender , though his team argued otherwise .

He had the measure on the great shoe on many occasion , but , as the team asked , he played the best support driver he could .
Who was to know , at that time , that the shoe dynasty was to last as long as it did ?

Gilles came into the same team , and filled the same role .
It is believed that it was the disrespect shown by Pironi , in passing Gilles in a camera-ready 1-2 , that contributed to his death .

There is no shame in the #2 role ; only a chance , if one is good enough , to take the #1 if the time presents .
Rubens was paired with the guy with almost all the records , and whether or not you feel they were all earned , nobody should think he was an average opponent .

The reds put their money on Michael , and frankly , they were right to do so .
And , Rubens carried the flag better than anybody had ever done for the scuderia .


My point was , that I'm sick and tired of hearing that it was written into the contract .

It was not .

[Tazio]

When Rubens came in , he replaced another driver who was rumoured to have a #2 stamped on his contract .
That's why it was important that Rubens saw nothing in the words to that end .
He knew he was not going to come in a challenge right away , but it later became more than evident that he would never be allowed to ever be a real contender , though his team argued otherwise .

He had the measure on the great shoe on many occasion , but , as the team asked , he played the best support driver he could .
Who was to know , at that time , that the shoe dynasty was to last as long as it did ?

Gilles came into the same team , and filled the same role .
It is believed that it was the disrespect shown by Pironi , in passing Gilles in a camera-ready 1-2 , that contributed to his death .

There is no shame in the #2 role ; only a chance , if one is good enough , to take the #1 if the time presents .
Rubens was paired with the guy with almost all the records , and whether or not you feel they were all earned , nobody should think he was an average opponent .

The reds put their money on Michael , and frankly , they were right to do so .
And , Rubens carried the flag better than anybody had ever done for the scuderia .


My point was , that I'm sick and tired of hearing that it was written into the contract .

It was not . :up:

[tinchote]

My point was , that I'm sick and tired of hearing that it was written into the contract .

It was not .

Indeed :up:

What no one mentions when referring to this topic is that so many times Rubens was not even behind MS in the grid nor in the races. And many times that he finished 2nd to MS, it was a distant 2nd.

[aryan]

Going to Ferrari was the right choice back then.

As has been mentioned, Rubens was at his best DC material, not championship material. He wouldn't have 9 Grand Prix wins under his belt if it wasn't for Ferrari.

He wouldn't be retiring as a Grand Prix winning driver if not for Ferrari.

[Garry Walker]

Unimpressed with Rubens last year. Bunsen got credit for turning around Honda whereas Rubens was languishing on the wrong side of the grid.

Rubens must know his time is almost up. He has a team-mate who has much more hunger and desire for success and there are drivers waiting in the wings who want to prove themselves in F1 more than Rubens does now.


Yet, Rubens was faster than that hungry team mate in the last race


By the time Rubens signed we had all known the score for years. If he wanted to be a World Champion it was a mistake.

:rotflmao:
Right, a seat in some midfield team car would have been much better, right?
Crazy.

If MS had had technical problems in a few races, or injured himself, RB could have easily taken a title.

[wedge]

When Rubens came in , he replaced another driver who was rumoured to have a #2 stamped on his contract .
That's why it was important that Rubens saw nothing in the words to that end .
He knew he was not going to come in a challenge right away , but it later became more than evident that he would never be allowed to ever be a real contender , though his team argued otherwise .

He had the measure on the great shoe on many occasion , but , as the team asked , he played the best support driver he could .
Who was to know , at that time , that the shoe dynasty was to last as long as it did ?

Gilles came into the same team , and filled the same role .
It is believed that it was the disrespect shown by Pironi , in passing Gilles in a camera-ready 1-2 , that contributed to his death .

There is no shame in the #2 role ; only a chance , if one is good enough , to take the #1 if the time presents .
Rubens was paired with the guy with almost all the records , and whether or not you feel they were all earned , nobody should think he was an average opponent .

The reds put their money on Michael , and frankly , they were right to do so .
And , Rubens carried the flag better than anybody had ever done for the scuderia .


My point was , that I'm sick and tired of hearing that it was written into the contract .

It was not .

Whether or not it was written or not, the end result was the same and he robbed of 2 deserved wins in Austria in successive years when the season just started - which goes against the spirit of healthy competition - though I fully understand why Schumi deserved his status within the team.

Gilles' case is slightly different. In 1979 there were no direct team orders until mid-point (could've won the WDC if he really wanted to in Italy????). 1982 I'm not too knowledgable on in terms of inter-team politics so someone else can argue on my behalf!

[ShiftingGears]

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/4831-Indy+2005+made+me+quit+Ferrari+-+Barrichello.html


"When I signed the contract," he explained, "there was nothing to indicate that the drivers would be treated differently."

Straight from Barrichello.

[Valve Bounce]

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/4831-Indy+2005+made+me+quit+Ferrari+-+Barrichello.html


"When I signed the contract," he explained, "there was nothing to indicate that the drivers would be treated differently."

Straight from Barrichello.

Whem I walked into the glass door, I didn't know it was shut!! :eek:

[CNR]

1 did he not see how good Eddie Irvine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Irvine)went when michael was out with the broken leg and when Mika Salo was so fare ahead in his first race yet some how Eddie Irvine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Irvine)won.


2

he made the decision to leave Ferrari halfway through agrand prix in 2005.


this was the bridgestone race in the us

[woody2goody]

Rubens has amassed 9 victories up to this point, but i can't help wondering that his time at Ferrari, when Michael won 60-odd races, devalued him as a driver.

I think that because he was never allowed to challenge Michael, even as early as the 5th or 6th race, that on days where he was faster than Michael, he had to stay behind him, whereas when Michael was faster than Rubens, he just had free-reign to win/finish ahead.

Thus, Rubinho's talent was somewhat masked, and this made him look so much more inferior to Michael than he actually was.

On days where Michael was faster than him, and Rubens didn't have to hang back, (eg. AUS 2004) MS was probably 0.1, 0.2 quicker than Rubens, which isn't that much, considering how good MS was. However, on days like AUT 2001, 02 and Indy 04, Rubens was faster but had to slow down and/or let MS through.

I believe that Rubens would have had almost 20 wins if given free reign by Ferrari to challenge Michael. He wouldn't have won a WDC, but that would only be because at the end of the day Michael/Raikkonen are better.

I'd have much preferred Ferrari to do with MS and RB what they did last year, and only favour one driver with 2 or 3 races left, when the other has no shot at the title.

[truefan72]

Rubens has amassed 9 victories up to this point, but i can't help wondering that his time at Ferrari, when Michael won 60-odd races, devalued him as a driver.

I think that because he was never allowed to challenge Michael, even as early as the 5th or 6th race, that on days where he was faster than Michael, he had to stay behind him, whereas when Michael was faster than Rubens, he just had free-reign to win/finish ahead.

Thus, Rubinho's talent was somewhat masked, and this made him look so much more inferior to Michael than he actually was.

On days where Michael was faster than him, and Rubens didn't have to hang back, (eg. AUS 2004) MS was probably 0.1, 0.2 quicker than Rubens, which isn't that much, considering how good MS was. However, on days like AUT 2001, 02 and Indy 04, Rubens was faster but had to slow down and/or let MS through.

I believe that Rubens would have had almost 20 wins if given free reign by Ferrari to challenge Michael. He wouldn't have won a WDC, but that would only be because at the end of the day Michael/Raikkonen are better.

I'd have much preferred Ferrari to do with MS and RB what they did last year, and only favour one driver with 2 or 3 races left, when the other has no shot at the title.

fine points which I tend to agree with....but after he left Ferrari, he really has done nothing, and I mean nothing to merit a seat in F1. I actually would have thought of him in a much better light if he had retired when he left Ferrari or the next year. But to have to go through 3 years (and counting) of zero productivity is hard to watch.

[woody2goody]

I bet it's hard for him after all those years in a race-winning car. He was good in 2006 but didn't seem to get any luck. That Honda was a pretty good car at the end of the day.

Last year I think he started well, but as Button got to grips with the car he fell behind him. As well I think Rubens was demotivated towards the end of '07.

He has been back to his best this year though, and was robbed of points in Melbourne because of those ridiculous new safety car rules.

He was very quick this morning as well so he'll be there until the end of the year I'm sure. I think his results this year will depend on how his future pans out. If it wasn't for the fact that he is 36/37 I would 100% take him next year over Taku/Davidson/Andretti.

I do think that he deserves to remain for as long as he is still competitive.

[Ranger]

He was very quick this morning as well so he'll be there until the end of the year I'm sure. I think his results this year will depend on how his future pans out. If it wasn't for the fact that he is 36/37 I would 100% take him next year over Taku/Davidson/Andretti.

I do think that he deserves to remain for as long as he is still competitive.

I agree, and although he's beaten Button most of the time, he hasn't beaten him when points were realistically on offer (like in Spain). You could say he's been unlucky. Same in Hungary 06 when he had to take an extra pit stop.

But he needs to start scoring points again to re-affirm his position.

[woody2goody]

I agree, and although he's beaten Button most of the time, he hasn't beaten him when points were realistically on offer (like in Spain). You could say he's been unlucky. Same in Hungary 06 when he had to take an extra pit stop.

But he needs to start scoring points again to re-affirm his position.

Wasn't he leading early on in Hungary '06?

At least Honda always seem to be consistent, no matter how good or bad the cars are. The seem to be always around 10th-12th this year, when everyone else is up and down, like Williams in particular.

[jens]

My thoughts about his 257.

Before the season Rubens was almost written off. It was thought that he was driving just to beat a record and stays in F1 undeservedly. But instead of this Rubens is giving hard time to Jenson and proves to be a perfect match to him. The record hasn't reduced his motivation, it has really fired him up. Good to see this old and experienced chap showing some life at such late phase of his career.

[Garry Walker]

I think that because he was never allowed to challenge Michael, even as early as the 5th or 6th race, that on days where he was faster than Michael, he had to stay behind him,
.

Examples of that, please, not including Austria 2002.
Austria 2001 was a case where the only reason MS was behind RB, was that silly Montoya tried to ram out of Schumacher.

[woody2goody]

Examples of that, please, not including Austria 2002.
Austria 2001 was a case where the only reason MS was behind RB, was that silly Montoya tried to ram out of Schumacher.

As if Montoya tried to take MS out of the race. He just outbraked himself. I'm sure Juan Pablo ended up in the gravel later anyway. Why should Rubens have to be swapped with Michael if Michael was in an accident. It was so early on in the season.

Indianapolis 2004. Rubens was leading early on until there was a safety car. Michael passed Rubens before the start finish line for a start, but that's not the point. Rubens wouldn't have been passed that early down the straight on a restart if it wasn't for a sly change of position from Ferrari. it just didn't look right.

Anyway, i think the two races in Austria say that Rubens wasn't allowed to challenge Michael. It only needs to happen once mate, never mind twice.

[woody2goody]

My thoughts about his 257.

Before the season Rubens was almost written off. It was thought that he was driving just to beat a record and stays in F1 undeservedly. But instead of this Rubens is giving hard time to Jenson and proves to be a perfect match to him. The record hasn't reduced his motivation, it has really fired him up. Good to see this old and experienced chap showing some life at such late phase of his career.

Yep, so many Grands Prix, and still 'only' 35. Two years younger than DC. 13? races left this year. That will take him to 270. Thus it will only take him less than two further seasons to reach 300 races. I doubt that will ever be beaten.

Both him and Jenson struggled today. Rubens didn't have the beating of Jenson like he did in Qualifying.

[jso1985]

................and a request to move over for Taku asap??

why? Honda didn't hire Barrichello to break records.

[CNR]

As long as the Honda F1 car sucks... they ought to keep Rubens Barrichello in a Formula One seat because he's a great personality, and the perfect professional in their public relations efforts.
As for his performance, what does it matter who drives the dog sled if it can barely compete with Toro Rosso and Force India ?
The problems at Honda have had nothing to do with who is driving the car.

http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=83959
Will Honda Drop Barrichello ?

[woody2goody]

Nick Fry said that Rubinho's contract talks were 'not a priority' at the moment.

Well they should be. No one has his experience, not many have his skill, and they don't have other better options.

Wurz has retired, Conway and Fillipi are inexperienced, Andretti isn't good enough and I can't see many free agents in the frame, short of someone like DC who isn't probably as good as Rubens any more. There's always a possibilty of Massa or even Alonso but the way it's going probably not.