Jeremia Wright and Obama

[Valve Bounce]

I am surprised that there has been no discussion here on this important topic. The inflamatory speeches and outlandish statements and claims made by Jeremia Wright could affect the election outcome for leadership of the most powerful nation on our planet.

At this stage, it apears that Wrights speeches have affected Obama's presidential campaign, and the Senator has taken the opportunity to distance himself from Wright and has denounced his speeches.

I would like to open this subject for debate/discussion here, and will offer more opinions myself as the discussion develops.

For those seeking more information of what I am talking about, you can either use google to find CBS News, CNN News, or the you-tube videos of Jeremia Wright's interesting sermons.

[Mark]

Would you care to give a synopsis for those of us who don't wish to wade through acres of press reportage.

[Valve Bounce]

Would you care to give a synopsis for those of us who don't wish to wade through acres of press reportage.

I think this says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM&feature=related
So if you have 3 minutes and eleven seconds, this is a good start. The other videos on this page are just as interesting, Mark my words.

[Tomi]

Lol, it gets better day by day.

[Azumanga Davo]

Oh Lordy, let's hope it's going to be a bit more than a few nitwit statements that decide this close call.

[BDunnell]

Related to this, while respecting the right of people to have religious beliefs, I find it rather sad that senior politicians generally seem to be expected to have some sort of faith. The idea of a would-be President of the USA or even a would-be British Prime Minister from a mainstream party saying that he or she is a devout atheist is actually quite far-fetched, when you think about it.

[BDunnell]

Oh Lordy, let's hope it's going to be a bit more than a few nitwit statements that decide this close call.

Oh, and I quite agree. :up:

[Valve Bounce]

OK, here's Obama's latest response, denouncing his now "former" pastor.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/29/obama.wright/index.html

This will take quite some time to read through and perhaps follow up on the links therein for those new to the subject.

[SOD]

just more racist fearmongering by whitey.

whitey only does good :rolleyes:

[TOgoFASTER]

It's never been uncommon for fringe religious blow hards to come out for elections or any thing else that will generate an audience. That is what it is about.

The likes of Robertson or Falwell etc. stating the evil ways of the USA turning it's back on god and their self serving interptations of the 'word' have seen in their minds view tornados, hurricanes, Earthquakes, terrorist attacks etc. etc. brought down on the people of the nation. But they end their hate rants with the PC God bless America.
I myself have never trusted those running for office that have to seek out any of these kind of fruit baskets for their endorsement and the support of their sheep. Yes, that would be most everyone that has ever ran in my life time. :)
McCain once denounced them all as agents of intolerance, but now embraces the same. A conversion of convenience.

Robertson ran for POTUS, thankfully there are enough level headed citizens to keep something like that worldwide disaster in check for now.

Wright is just the other end of the rainbow of crazy fringe players looking for the holy grail of self importance and influence. Two sides of the same sword. I laugh at him as I have the rest.

I agree with Monaro's statement.

[Azumanga Davo]

Never did understand evangelism fully and why it's supported so widely.

Thanks to my long time friend insomnia, I am forced to watch such gubbins as Benny Hinn and that chap Copeland (personal favourite is Creflo Dollar for some odd reason). I have worked out how they do it and reckon I could make a quick quid in there if I followed these basic rules:

1. Hallelujah! has to be added at the end of every two sentences uttered.

2. Amen! for every other sentence end.

3. Pepper sermon with Praise the Lord! and Blessed are the chosen!, but only lightly.

4. Spend at least an hour explaining the intricate details, double meanings and morals in Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 1.

5. A sermon is only allowed to end when the shouts of the crowd are clearly audible. To do this, repeat steps 1 to 4 louder until acheived.

6. Sell rather expensive solid gold jewellery that vaguely resemble your ministry logo, numerous books on how your day with God was and fly everywhere to spread the word and giving people a good thwack on the head to cure your flock of their greivances (applies to those who prefer the Benny Hinn version)

For those who want the full set of rules to the industry, my new book "My Vicar and Other Animals" is for sale, both volumes at a bargain $100.00 including GST this month only. ;)

Anyway back on subject, anyone think there is a reason why the Reverend Wright has decided now is a good time to reveal all about his sordid and quite frankly disgusting thoughts? And secondly, what are his possible benefits out of all this?

[TOgoFASTER]

Try some Jack and Rexella Van Impe.

[SOD]

Try some Jack and Rexella Van Impe.

needs more Rick and Wendy from God TV, coming to you live from Jerusalem, The End of Days

[tmx]

Just another exampe of how corrupted the news media is. They are giving this big coverage just because it is convenience and creates lot of controversies.

As for why Wright is doing this, I heard that Obama knows the guy for 20years so I guess he wants to settle some scores with Obama through this.

[Valve Bounce]

Just another exampe of how corrupted the news media is. They are giving this big coverage just because it is convenience and creates lot of controversies.

As for why Wright is doing this, I heard that Obama knows the guy for 20years so I guess he wants to settle some scores with Obama through this.


Well, it's no wonder the press is giving Jeremia Wright's rantings some coverage. This is the man who yells out "GOD DAMN AMERICA", says the Government deliberately infected the Afro Americans (he uses a more confrontational term) aids, and a helluva lot more.

Now this man has been Obama's pastor for the past 20 years. Has anyone noticed how the congregation behind the video in the first post are all yelling and screaming support for Wright's rantings? I wonder what Obama was doing when he was one of the congregation!! We are talking about the member of this congregation who has aspirations, not to mention a good chance, of being the next president of America.

When I was in my twenties and if I had walked into such a church and heard these preachings, I would have never gone back. I certainly would not have contemplated being one of the fanatics attending such a church, listening to such rantings for 20 years. And there is no way I would have, in my wildesr dreams, considered asking such a man to perform my wedding ceremony, let alone baptise my children.

When I saw members of the congregation yelling and hurraying, it reminded me so much of those cheering when O J Simpson was found not guilty.

And you accuse the new media of being corrupt for reporting this? I just don't understand your reasoning. :confused:

[SOD]

When the US surgeon general (general Koop) says that Aids came from a green monkey then you know someone is smoking some seriously mindnumbing prescription drugs.

[TOgoFASTER]

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's chariotters".

Seems many a fine values Christian cheered the above mind numbing intolerance from the Rev. Falwell.

And there is no wonder why the talking head news media gives any of these nut bags coverage it equals ratings which equals profit. Reality has very little to do with it.

As far as being a member of a congregation I think Obama got caught being what most of church goers in the US are, part timers at best that go through the motions on a few holidays, old tired traditions, and don't care or are really interested in the rest of what is done or said.

[Valve Bounce]

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's chariotters".

Seems many a fine values Christian cheered the above mind numbing intolerance from the Rev. Falwell.

And there is no wonder why the talking head news media gives any of these nut bags coverage it equals ratings which equals profit. Reality has very little to do with it.

As far as being a member of a congregation I think Obama got caught being what most of church goers in the US are, part timers at best that go through the motions on a few holidays, old tired traditions, and don't care or are really interested in the rest of what is done or said.

Do you have any solid evidence to back up this statement regarding the ties that existed between Wright and Obama? or are you just making it up as you go along?

[Garry Walker]

just more racist fearmongering by whitey.

whitey only does good :rolleyes:

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[TOgoFASTER]

Do you have any solid evidence to back up this statement regarding the ties that existed between Wright and Obama? or are you just making it up as you go along?

I made an observation based on most church goers in the US are far from totally devoted to their religion or priest, minster's teachings as some would like to cling to for whatever reasons. Some are taking an assumed degree of connection between Obama and Wright based on what they are told without questioning who all this information is coming from. I question that the true story is getting told by anyone as is within the rich tradition of politics to lie no matter how devoted to the truth. It's a dirty business.
In the end it isn't going to matter or make that difference some are grasping so hard for, for whatever reasons. Which would be my point.

One of many examples.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-04-13-catholic-poll_n.htm

Being it came from media not owned by Murdock you make the call. :)

[Valve Bounce]

I made an observation based on most church goers in the US are far from totally devoted to their religion or priest, minster's teachings as some would like to cling to for whatever reasons. Some are taking an assumed degree of connection between Obama and Wright based on what they are told without questioning who all this information is coming from. I question that the true story is getting told by anyone as is within the rich tradition of politics to lie no matter how devoted to the truth. It's a dirty business.
In the end it isn't going to matter or make that difference some are grasping so hard for, for whatever reasons. Which would be my point.

One of many examples.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-04-13-catholic-poll_n.htm

Being it came from media not owned by Murdock you make the call. :)

So basically you are basing your belief on a generalisation that churchgoers are far from devoted to their religion or priest, and so this would apply to Obama and Jeremiah Wright, correct?

Well, perhaps if you go back to Obama's own assertions last week of his link with Wright in a public speech rather than blaming whoever you are alluding to who perpetrate a dirty business, then maybe you can come to a better appreciation of what we are talking about.
And quite frankly, I don't see where Murdock comes in here. Surely he is not writing Obama's speeches.

[TOgoFASTER]

So basically you are basing your belief on a generalisation that churchgoers are far from devoted to their religion or priest, and so this would apply to Obama and Jeremiah Wright, correct?

Well, perhaps if you go back to Obama's own assertions last week of his link with Wright in a public speech rather than blaming whoever you are alluding to who perpetrate a dirty business, then maybe you can come to a better appreciation of what we are talking about.
And quite frankly, I don't see where Murdock comes in here. Surely he is not writing Obama's speeches.

Crom! LOL

[SOD]

http://bp0.blogger.com/_f7Z4BuPQA9c/Rys559-wUgI/AAAAAAAAEno/hwGUq8NRPGU/s320/haroldbishop.jpg

[TOgoFASTER]

So basically you are basing your belief on a generalisation that churchgoers are far from devoted to their religion or priest, and so this would apply to Obama and Jeremiah Wright, correct?

Well, perhaps if you go back to Obama's own assertions last week of his link with Wright in a public speech rather than blaming whoever you are alluding to who perpetrate a dirty business, then maybe you can come to a better appreciation of what we are talking about.
And quite frankly, I don't see where Murdock comes in here. Surely he is not writing Obama's speeches.

An observation is not a belief. I leave cold hard lined beliefs that benefit one's narrow view to those that need them far worse than I.

I question that the true story is getting told by anyone as is within the rich tradition of politics to lie no matter how devoted to the truth. It's a dirty business.

Anyone meant everyone including Wright and Obama just to clarify for those that didn't grasp or understand the statement. We are spoon fed the news some accept it as it rings to their agenda, I do not. More to the story than meets the blind eye.
The Murdock statement was pure sarcasm. Guess I should have used a smiley.

LOL

Nothing but a forgotten mole hill by November. Unless the McCain followers wish to have his "agents of intolerance" buddies brought more into the forefront. There are far more great quotes just from Falwell to last a long long time, without opening the total good ole boy network books of perverse hate.

[SOD]

since when was Rev Jeremiah Wright on the ballot?

[TOgoFASTER]

Since the black panther link didn't take hold?

[Valve Bounce]

We are spoon fed the news some accept it as it rings to their agenda, I do not. More to the story than meets the blind eye.

The Murdock statement was pure sarcasm.

. There are far more great quotes just from Falwell to last a long long time, without opening the total good ole boy network books of perverse hate.

For a start, anyone who thinks that a speech by the presidential hopeful denouncing his former pastor being announced on just about every national TV station as being spoon fed would have a rather simplistic outlook new reporting. I would take the opposite view that if the networks decided not to broadcast his speeches as more like the Chinese approach to censorship, and there would be an outcry about it.

As for Murdock, sarcasm or otherwise, it was actually inconsequential.

Perhaps someone could tell me where Falwell was pastor to a presidential hopeful and spouted hate that affected this presidential hopeful. This was during a time when I was working where news was not that forthcoming. Thanks!!

[TOgoFASTER]

For a start, anyone who thinks that a speech by the presidential hopeful denouncing his former pastor being announced on just about every national TV station as being spoon fed would have a rather simplistic outlook new reporting. I would take the opposite view that if the networks decided not to broadcast his speeches as more like the Chinese approach to censorship, and there would be an outcry about it.

This plainly makes no sense at all and the twisting of my words with your interpertations is hilarious. I frankly didn't care one way or another how it was reported. I don't believe your thread is about the way this was reported. Nothing I said about this had anything to do on comentary about the reporting. What was reported was what we were fed by the the people involved via network coverage. Believe me they aren't telling the whole story no matter how much you think they are. As far as the chinese deal I can't speak to that but it was as inconsequential as the rest of the paragraph.

[TOgoFASTER]

As for Murdock, sarcasm or otherwise, it was actually inconsequential.


I checked and I did use a smiley. Lighten up or you may end up in later life looking like Richard Nixon or that person SOD posted. :)

[Valve Bounce]

I checked and I did use a smiley. Lighten up or you may end up in later life looking like Richard Nixon or that person SOD posted. :)

Smiley or not, that sentence was not only inconsequential, but also unintelligeable. You make the call!! :rolleyes:
Until I cheat and lie like Richard Nixon, I will never end up looking like him. For a start, I am much better looking.
I have no idea who that person Sod posted - he looks a bit like a pedophile recently caught somewhere out West. :eek:

[TOgoFASTER]

Perhaps someone could tell me where Falwell was pastor to a presidential hopeful and spouted hate that affected this presidential hopeful. This was during a time when I was working where news was not that forthcoming. Thanks!!

Perhaps someone can explain the reasons behind McCain actively courting and
accepting the support of the likes of a religious figure and hate monger on the scale of a Hagee during his current presidential campaign. Those are current events you might have not seen on your news. This is a man McCain listed as an agent of intolerance when he ran back in 2000.
Myself, I find the fact McCain will lower his core values to get elected to the lowest common denominator of a group of religious zealots and nut bags (yes, he has a pack with Robertson and others as well) very much more distrubing.
Maybe the reports of this activety only appeared in China. LOL
Has Murdock got a deal there yet. :)
Imagine if Obama actively was seeking out and then accepted the endorsment of a Farrakhan.
But hey I'm out of the context of a very narrow minded thread and don't expect the author to understand.

Again in the end the Wright saga will not change the outcome of the coming election. Six months is a long, long time in USA. It will be as you say, inconsequential.

[Valve Bounce]

Going back to the topic of discussion of this thread, it seems as if Jeremia Wright's controversial sermons and his recent appearances on TV may have hurt Obama as some reports indicate that Obama may not stack up that well against McCain.

On the other hand, Obama has a huge following among the African Americans who may have viewed all the show put on by Jeremiah Wright as a positive for Obama. As I had mentioned before, some of their cheering reminded me of when O J Simpson was found not guilty. They didn't care that he got off despite the wealth of evidence against him - they were cheering because an African American was found not guilty in the biggest court room show in America up till then.

I post this link from our newspaper The Austraila : http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23630046-26397,00.html
but I think this is only one side of the picture. I am sure if we checked out CBS or CNN, there would be a different aspect to this campaign.

[rah]

I think this says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM&feature=related
So if you have 3 minutes and eleven seconds, this is a good start. The other videos on this page are just as interesting, Mark my words.

Finally managed to have a look at this. Is it really that bad? I know politics takes things out of context, but seriously just because this bloke says a few things that some people actually believe, does that make him so bad?

[Valve Bounce]

Finally managed to have a look at this. Is it really that bad? I know politics takes things out of context, but seriously just because this bloke says a few things that some people actually believe, does that make him so bad?

Let me put it this way: If I was running for Presidency of our football club, I wouldn't like anyone to know this nutter was my pastor for the past 20 years. :eek:

[rah]

Let me put it this way: If I was running for Presidency of our football club, I wouldn't like anyone to know this nutter was my pastor for the past 20 years. :eek:

Don't get me wrong, I think most people that are deep into religion are nutters, but I have heard worse and I didn't find the things he was saying offensive.

[anthonyvop]

since when was Rev Jeremiah Wright on the ballot?

As soon as Obama stated that the Rev. Wright was his confidant and spiritual guide for the past 20 years.

[Valve Bounce]

I frankly didn't care one way or another how it was reported. I don't believe your thread is about the way this was reported. Nothing I said about this had anything to do on comentary about the reporting. What was reported was what we were fed by the the people involved via network coverage. Believe me they aren't telling the whole story no matter how much you think they are. .

"I question that the true story is getting told by anyone as is within the rich tradition of politics to lie no matter how devoted to the truth. It's a dirty business.
In the end it isn't going to matter or make that difference some are grasping so hard for, for whatever reasons. Which would be my point.

One of many examples.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...lic-poll_n.htm

Being it came from media not owned by Murdock you make the call."

Really!!

[SOD]

As soon as Obama stated that the Rev. Wright was his confidant and spiritual guide for the past 20 years.

keep trying Vop, you're last hope are riots in Denver.

Wright is not on the ballot.

[BDunnell]

As soon as Obama stated that the Rev. Wright was his confidant and spiritual guide for the past 20 years.

Will the South Florida Motorsports Report be following this stringent line in its editorials?

[Alexamateo]

keep trying Vop, you're last hope are riots in Denver.

Wright is not on the ballot.

I know you are taking a shot at Anthony because you disagree with him politically, but his point here is valid. With politicians on both sides of the aisle, there are two things; promises they make in hopes of getting elected, and what they'll actually do once in office.

Now we know politicians often act differently once in office, it is important to know who their friends and confidantes are and just what those influences might be.

[SOD]

If you're Charles Keating, you're going to have another windfall.

[TOgoFASTER]

Really!!

LOL. You forgot to fully quote with the smiley. LOL

What was reported was what we were fed by the the people involved via network coverage. Believe me they aren't telling the whole story no matter how much you think they are.

"They" again refers to Wright and Obama or any other politician or religious nut bag. Not the proper news media.


Funny since you bring it up... CNN and CBS... carried the same ins and outs as that paper. Though not so heavily one sided.
Where's the coverage of Hagee the nutter story? Or would that be Hagee the God loved hero supports McCain story? I'm sure if we checked Sky and Fox or the also Rupy owned "The Australian" they would be all over this as well. :)
CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC and the printed media (yes, I also read more than one newspaper daily and of course more than one view) covered both stories in an in depth manner. Both as straight up news and of course in seperated opinion pieces. :)

Thus my sarcastic mention of Rupy news in the first place, I had that pegged correctly from the very start of the thread, I'm afraid.

Keep grasping. It still isn't going to change a thing.

Oh, and what the heck does the OJ trial outcome and the reactions of some (of all colors BTW) to it have to do with any of this in any realistic comparision or remembrance? I let that side the first time. It would seem Ann Coulter and the swift boat crowd would love you.

[TOgoFASTER]

On the other hand, Obama has a huge following among the African Americans who may have viewed all the show put on by Jeremiah Wright as a positive for Obama.


Oh, That is pure BS.

[Canada Cornrow]

I post this link from our newspaper The Austraila : http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23630046-26397,00.html
but I think this is only one side of the picture. I am sure if we checked out CBS or CNN, there would be a different aspect to this campaign.


Was that a straight news piece? It read more like an editorial.

[Valve Bounce]

Was that a straight news piece? It read more like an editorial.

No! it was straight and seemed to come from some network in the US, but may have been one day behind in date.

[Valve Bounce]

Oh, That is pure BS.

You forgot the smiley!! :rolleyes:

[tstran17_88]

I hate to see a thread like this....but one's a racist and the one trying to run our country supports a racist and plays the race card to get ahead in life.

I can say a lot more since I grew up in these politics...but most the folks on this board would rip me for speaking against the Chocolate Jesus and that's as far as I'll go with this.

[TOgoFASTER]

You forgot the smiley!! :rolleyes:

LOL weak.

[ShiftingGears]

"Hillary Clinton was not a black boy"

That's deep.

[Valve Bounce]

LOL weak.

Too bad!! but you like to hide behind that remark, so I guess that applies to you.!!

[TOgoFASTER]

Too bad!! but you like to hide behind that remark, so I guess that applies to you.!!

Have you noticed how very alone you are in your own little thread?
LOL
The above makes no sense at all, but that doesn't seem to stop you. When you grasp tongue in cheek sarcasm let someone that cares about you know. ;)

None of the following will change the outcome. And you have no say in it at all. I like your new PM though, seems a thoughtful chap.

The Wright thing is only the current attempt, let us remember... is he really a citizen of the USA? Didn't he work for a bad person with 'ties' to the Weatherunderground or Black Panthers? Wasn't that bad person put in jail? (no fully acquitted) He's too white? He's too Black? He doesn't support 'the community' as well as he should? He's an elitist? What about his Mother? What about his Father? What about his mother's family? Why does his wife hate america? Why doesn't he wear a flag? Osama Obama? Barrack Hussein Obama? He is a Muslim, did I say that? but you know if it looks like a duck... Look at how he is dressed in this photo, he has to be Muslim and with African influences as well?
Next he will be Rupy's+Hagee and friends antichrist. Oh wait he already is.

[Valve Bounce]

This is new - a Muslim in Jeremiah Wright's congregation who just happens to be the presidential hope of half of America.
What will some people think of next? :rolleyes:

[SOD]

This is new - a Muslim in Jeremiah Wright's congregation who just happens to be the presidential hope of half of America.
What will some people think of next? :rolleyes:

someone DID think of that and started to spread the fake rumours around.

[Garry Walker]

I can say a lot more since I grew up in these politics...but most the folks on this board would rip me for speaking against the Chocolate Jesus and that's as far as I'll go with this.

Chocolate Jesus is simply an awesome name and I wouldn`t attack you :up:

[Canada Cornrow]

The Wright thing is only the current attempt, let us remember... is he really a citizen of the USA? Didn't he work for a bad person with 'ties' to the Weatherunderground or Black Panthers? Wasn't that bad person put in jail? (no fully acquitted)

That "bad person" is William Ayers and he was never tried for his crimes due to a technicality so no he was not "fully acquitted".

The only reason these stories get any traction is because Chocolate Jesus is a bit of an empty suit with no executive experience. The one good thing coming out of this Democratic primary season is that it shows how completely indebted the Democratic Party is to identity politics. You reap what you sow.

[anthonyvop]

keep trying Vop, you're last hope are riots in Denver.

Wright is not on the ballot.
Oh.
So in your world it doesn't matter who a cannidate consults with?

I am sure if Senator McCain had a confidant who stated that Blacks were the cause of most of the problems today you would be "outraged" (Outraged is what most liberals get when they are really throwing a hissy-fit!)

[Valve Bounce]

Oh.
So in your world it doesn't matter who a cannidate consults with?

I am sure if Senator McCain had a confidant who stated that Blacks were the cause of most of the problems today you would be "outraged" (Outraged is what most liberals get when they are really throwing a hissy-fit!)

Actually, Obama finally stated that he was outraged at what Jeremiah Wright said. However, the sticking point here is why he waited so long before he denounced this former pastor, which I mentioned in #8.

The irony here is that if Hilary Clinton lost the primary, and wanted to link up with Obama as his running mate, enough bile/venom/shyte has been brought up to give the Republicans what is a clear head start in the mudslinging contest which will follow.

[leopard]

I am not into politic and do not support particular politician.

Many people have misinterpreted religion of our first President relating to his close relationship with an atheist related communists party of which they have no place to live here, and his daughter which was also our former president when visiting a shrine while they are obviously Muslim.

It all depend on from which side we look at the fact. The best and wise way to look at it that she admits any diversity and treating all people equally.
A narrow minded will look it more that she is a flicker, person without strong conviction or anything. Politic enemy tend to take up this thing to provocation that the candidate has an obscure religion.

Which one are we from? :)

[SOD]

Oh.
So in your world it doesn't matter who a cannidate consults with?

I am sure if Senator McCain had a confidant who stated that Blacks were the cause of most of the problems today you would be "outraged" (Outraged is what most liberals get when they are really throwing a hissy-fit!)

I dont care about Senator John R McTurbo or Senator Barack Obama nor about Senator Hillary Clinton.

There are people blaming the Black community for the subprime mess. the fault lies with those who gave them the loans.

[Valve Bounce]

I am not into politic and do not support particular politician.

Many people have misinterpreted religion of our first President relating to his close relationship with an atheist related communists party of which they have no place to live here, and his daughter which was also our former president when visiting a shrine while they are obviously Muslim.

It all depend on from which side we look at the fact. The best and wise way to look at it that she admits any diversity and treating all people equally.
A narrow minded will look it more that she is a flicker, person without strong conviction or anything. Politic enemy tend to take up this thing to provocation that the candidate has an obscure religion.


Which one are we from? :)

Have you checked the link in the lead post?

[anthonyvop]

I dont care about Senator John R McTurbo or Senator Barack Obama nor about Senator Hillary Clinton..
Then why are you here?

There are people blaming the Black community for the subprime mess. the fault lies with those who gave them the loans.
i know as a liberal/lefty it is very hard for you to stick to one subject but please try!

[BDunnell]

i know as a liberal/lefty it is very hard for you to stick to one subject but please try!

As opposed to the varied, reasoned intellectual debate we see from the other side...

[SOD]

i know as a liberal/lefty it is very hard for you to stick to one subject but please try!

I gave you a recent REAL example of the oppositite of what you hypothetically claimed.

:laugh:


as for namecalling, sticks and stones etc etc..

[Garry Walker]

There are people blaming the Black community for the subprime mess. the fault lies with those who gave them the loans.

Just out of curiosity, is there anything that Black Community is to blame for, ever, or is it always "whiteys" fault? You know, stuff like by far higher incarceration rate, incredibly high percentage of one parent families, over 50% of murders committed by 10 % of the population...?

[SOD]

Just out of curiosity, is there anything that Black Community is to blame for, ever, or is it always "whiteys" fault? You know, stuff like by far higher incarceration rate, incredibly high percentage of one parent families, over 50% of murders committed by 10 % of the population...?

Decent reparations for slavery would be a start.

[SOD]

Then why are you here?

i know as a liberal/lefty it is very hard for you to stick to one subject but please try!

I'd like to know WHY you know.

[tstran17_88]

Chocolate Jesus is simply an awesome name and I wouldn`t attack you :up: I can't take credit though...James T. Harris, a conservative talk show host I listen to came up with the moniker!

http://nationalconversation.typepad.com

[rah]

Just out of curiosity, is there anything that Black Community is to blame for, ever, or is it always "whiteys" fault? You know, stuff like by far higher incarceration rate, incredibly high percentage of one parent families, over 50% of murders committed by 10 % of the population...?

Must be nice to have a narrow view of the world.

[Canada Cornrow]

Must be nice to have a narrow view of the world.

It's even nicer yet when all you have to do when faced with difficult or inconvenient questions is to brand the questioner as narrow minded. That way you don't have to actually answer the questions or contribute anything of substance to the conversation except either smug self righteousness and/or phony outrage. Your comment is a perfect illustration of how identity politics are used to stifle open debate.

Back to Gary's comment though. Reverend Wright did mix in a little tough love to the black community about it's shortcomings in his sermons. The problem is that just because he said things that were obvious and needed to be said by a black leader (which most black leaders are loathe to do outside a predominently black audience) doesn't excuse him from the bizarre conspiricy theories and Afrocentric liberation theology he preached too.

There are several glaring ironies to take from Reverend Wright's wacky comments at the National Press club and Obama's response: He has no problem propagating the same racial theories about blacks vs whites that would make him right at home with a Jim Crow era segretationist (left brains/right brains, blacks have more natural rhythm) and when Obama reversed his stance on Wright a mere 6 weeks after his Philadelphia speech he said:

"What I think particularly angered me was his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing. Anybody who knows me and anybody who knows what I'm about knows that -- that I am about trying to bridge gaps and that I see the -- the commonality in all people."...

"I want to use this press conference to make people absolutely clear that obviously whatever relationship I had with Reverend Wright has changed as a consequence of this. I don't think that he showed much concern for me."...

"At a certain point, if what somebody says contradicts what you believe so fundamentally, and then he questions whether or not you believe it in front of the National Press Club, then that's enough. That's -- that's a show of disrespect to me. It's a -- it is also, I think, an insult to what we've been trying to do in this campaign."

Obama seemed more concerned about being "disrespected" by the Reverend than the fact that Wright's antics only comfirm people's worst suspicions about him (Wright, and by extension, Obama) and his beliefs.

Does this make me narrow minded?

[SOD]

the idea that a reverand can influence much over a president is ridiculous.

Take The Reverend Ted haggard and the presidency of george W Bush as an example. now tell me, was abortion made illegal by Bush? What did W to legislate for evangelical causes? the answer, of course is none. W did get the rubes to vote for him and push through his communistic bailout of banks etc...

[leopard]

Well, my illustration about a narrow minded was to those from what I see here (not in this forum) still questioning religion legality of the president or the candidate for a multi ethnic with multi religions, just because being caught visiting ceremony of various religions. :)

[tstran17_88]

W did get the rubes to vote for him and push through his communistic bailout of banks etc...Sean...your confusing DUBBA with the FED again. :D

[Garry Walker]

Must be nice to have a narrow view of the world.
Would you care to expand on why I have a narrow view of the world, when I have official government statistics to prove my case?

for starters.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

[BDunnell]

Just out of curiosity, is there anything that Black Community is to blame for, ever, or is it always "whiteys" fault? You know, stuff like by far higher incarceration rate, incredibly high percentage of one parent families, over 50% of murders committed by 10 % of the population...?

I don't think treating the entire black community as though it is somehow to blame for this, or as though all black people in the USA somehow feel that the sort of things you list there are acceptable, is very helpful. Blaming all white people for racism is equally unacceptable, I might add. There are deeper social problems at stake here than skin colour can explain on its own.

[Canada Cornrow]

the idea that a reverand can influence much over a president is ridiculous.

Take The Reverend Ted haggard and the presidency of george W Bush as an example. now tell me, was abortion made illegal by Bush? What did W to legislate for evangelical causes? the answer, of course is none. W did get the rubes to vote for him and push through his communistic bailout of banks etc...

The president alone can't outlaw abortion. That would take the legislature to sign a bill to override Roe v Wade and then having the president sign it. Could you please provide some factual data on the "communistic bailout of banks etc..."? Maybe a link or something?

Are all evangelicals rubes or just a certain percentage? Can an atheist be a rube? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you never actually spent any quality time in America's heartland.



QUOTE=SOD;470314]the idea that a reverand [sic] can influence much over a president is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]



How is this ridiculous? Why make such a pronouncement without providing an explanation? The point most people are taking from all of this is that Obama wasn't so much influenced by Wright as the fact that his silence the last twenty years was tacit approval of the ranting Reverend. The problem with Obama is that once you strip away the banal Hopey Changeyness (sp?) and his meager voting record as a US senator there isn't a whole lot you can judge him on. This whole controversy will die out when Hillary drops out of the race.

[rah]

Would you care to expand on why I have a narrow view of the world, when I have official government statistics to prove my case?

for starters.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

I am not debating the statistics. The statistics have been there for people to say for many years. What I am suggesting is that you are over simplifying the reasons for those statistics. Why are you saying it is the black communities fault for their higher incarceration? The laws are not always equal, society is definitely not equal. Take the jail time for crack cocaine compared to powder cocaine for instance.

[Azumanga Davo]

So what exactly has happened these last few days? I seem to recall that Obama had no chance of beating Clinton to the big chair with the end it all button. And then this morning I awake to hear on the news that Hillary is in a dire position, near broke and no hope of making Bill the First Lady.

I hate following these things. :p :

[SOD]

The president alone can't outlaw abortion. That would take the legislature to sign a bill to override Roe v Wade and then having the president sign it. Could you please provide some factual data on the "communistic bailout of banks etc..."? Maybe a link or something?

Are all evangelicals rubes or just a certain percentage? Can an atheist be a rube? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you never actually spent any quality time in America's heartland.



QUOTE=SOD;470314]the idea that a reverand [sic] can influence much over a president is ridiculous.



How is this ridiculous? Why make such a pronouncement without providing an explanation? The point most people are taking from all of this is that Obama wasn't so much influenced by Wright as the fact that his silence the last twenty years was tacit approval of the ranting Reverend. The problem with Obama is that once you strip away the banal Hopey Changeyness (sp?) and his meager voting record as a US senator there isn't a whole lot you can judge him on. This whole controversy will die out when Hillary drops out of the race.


go back to march 17th and read about the confiscation of bear Sterns. plenty of quality news organisations have archives you know.

There's plenty of evidence to show that President's don't pander to the rantings of their religous guru's while in office.

Riots in Denver are your last hope, though its more likely that there will be trouble caused by the GOPers in Minneapolis.

[SOD]

So what exactly has happened these last few days? I seem to recall that Obama had no chance of beating Clinton to the big chair with the end it all button. And then this morning I awake to hear on the news that Hillary is in a dire position, near broke and no hope of making Bill the First Lady.

I hate following these things. :p :

for all the braying, Hillary only won 4 more delegates than Obama in indiana. The far-right wing nutjobs are claiming that their campaign to get republicans to vote for hillary won her the state.

[Canada Cornrow]

go back to march 17th and read about the confiscation of bear Sterns. plenty of quality news organisations have archives you know..

I thought Bear Sterns got an emergency loan to facilitate a takeover by JP Morgan. That's not exactly a "confiscation".


There's plenty of evidence to show that President's don't pander to the rantings of their religous guru's while in office. .

That's not the issue here. Nobody's claiming Obama is "pandering" to his religious guru. The problem is that he spent twenty years listening to this drivel, donating money to this lunatic and tacitly agreeing with him by his silence until he was "disrespected".


Riots in Denver are your last hope, though its more likely that there will be trouble caused by the GOPers in Minneapolis.

It's like you got a crystal ball or can read minds or something. How could you possibly know what I'm thinking much less hoping?

And apparenty you have not spent any time in America's heartland. I'm beginning to think you've never actually been to America. Yes SOD, atheists can be rubes too. You write like a petulant teenager.

[Canada Cornrow]

I am not debating the statistics. The statistics have been there for people to say for many years. What I am suggesting is that you are over simplifying the reasons for those statistics. Why are you saying it is the black communities fault for their higher incarceration? The laws are not always equal, society is definitely not equal. Take the jail time for crack cocaine compared to powder cocaine for instance.

The problems in the black community have steadily gotten worse even as their political power and economic opportunities have improved. The reason some people hold the black community's feet to the fire on their problems is because some people actually believe in free will. Blaming "society" is ultimately a cop-out and an oversimplification. Treating racial minorities as perpetual victims is incredibly condescending, borderline racist and narrow minded. There are plenty of poor whites who get screwed over by the system. I know some of them.

Speaking from my experiences working alongside inner city black people I can say most black people know the "blame society" card is a con in the vast majority of cases. Keep in mind most inner city crime is black-on-black. Thugs are a problem but their enablers are the bigger threat. You can thank identity politics for that.

A lot of the young black men I worked with simply couldn't do what was needed to get ahead in life because they were terrified of acting white in front of their peers. They would rather stay poor than appear inauthentically black. It was quite sad actually but they sure as hell weren't going to listen to me so they willingly made their choices and accepted the consequences. I'm sure a few of them have since come to their senses and are living productive lives, at least I hope so.

Those experiences caused me to reject many of my most cherished leftwing/postmodern ideas and attitudes. And it's not like I somehow turned into a rightwing version of SOD. You live by identity politics-you die by identity politics.

Your point about crack vs powder cocaine is valid though.

[rah]

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the African American community is not to blame for anything, but there are problems with society in regards to racial prejudice.

I found this quite interesting.
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/05/05/usint18754/

[SOD]

The inner city crime is the subprime lending that confiscated people's houses and decimates the community.

and Canada Cornrow,

you do not possess one iota of an idea about my politics, be careful about associating my name with your miscalculated ideas about me.
A few others on this board have fallen into that trap on this board in the past few days.

[Canada Cornrow]

The inner city crime is the subprime lending that confiscated people's houses and decimates the community.

and Canada Cornrow,

you do not possess one iota of an idea about my politics, be careful about associating my name with your miscalculated ideas about me.
A few others on this board have fallen into that trap on this board in the past few days.


I don't care to decipher the intricacies of your politics and I don't think for one second that I'll fall into some kind of "trap" by you. I will repeat again you write like a petulant teenager who continually goes off topic to give vent to your neurotic obsession with American politicians with "R"s next to their names.

And what's with that first sentence? Yikes! I don't know how anybody could come away from that doozy without concluding that you are rather deeply enthralled with dialectic materialism. To wit: you lack nuance.

[SOD]

I don't care to decipher the intricacies of your politics and I don't think for one second that I'll fall into some kind of "trap" by you. I will repeat again you write like a petulant teenager who continually goes off topic to give vent to your neurotic obsession with American politicians with "R"s next to their names.

And what's with that first sentence? Yikes! I don't know how anybody could come away from that doozy without concluding that you are rather deeply enthralled with dialectic materialism. To wit: you lack nuance.

:cry:

I'll repeat again, socialism arrived in the USA on March 17th 2008, and you did nothing about it or are too stupid to figure it out. You're already paying for it, but that is your choice.

You completely failed to understand my point about the decimation of Black communities due to predatory lenders, but it's all their fault.

[Canada Cornrow]

:cry:

I'll repeat again, socialism arrived in the USA on March 17th 2008, and you did nothing about it or are too stupid to figure it out. You're already paying for it, but that is your choice.

You completely failed to understand my point about the decimation of Black communities due to predatory lenders, but it's all their fault.



Well at least you're right up front and honest with your elitist condescension. As is typical with your posts you make sweeping statements of opinion as fact and are too lazy to provide a link, quotations or any other evidence to back them up and when complaining about being misunderstood you again fail to explain in any detail why that is so and then twist my words in the most perjoritive sense ("but it's all their fault").

I'll repeat again, you have never been to America nor do you have any personal experiences with the "decimated black communities" which you talk about. Your opinions reek of the kind of the kind of patronizing elitism one gets when treating "communities" as an abstract collection of economic units instead of individuals. You. Lack. Nuance.

[tstran17_88]

SOD has been to the states before, just not all 57 of them like Barack has. :D

[Alexamateo]

... just not all 57 of them like Barack has. :D

Since Democrats often view the world as they think it should be, Maybe he's just saying there should be 57 states. Let's see:

51. District of Columbia
52. Puerto Rico
53. Guam
54. US Virgin Islands
55. American Samoa
56. Northern Mariana Islands
57. Mexico, (My goodness, all these people here and they can't vote, they need representation!)

Yep 57! :D :p : :)

[SOD]

SOD has been to the states before, just not all 57 of them like Barack has. :D

Illinois, Missouri & Indiana, only 54 left to see :D

[Canada Cornrow]

Finally managed to have a look at this. Is it really that bad? I know politics takes things out of context, but seriously just because this bloke says a few things that some people actually believe, does that make him so bad?



Just like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejTmistHFw0

[donKey jote]

classic Daily Show yesterday on Hillary's crushing of Obama in West Virginia:

"Ay just sppose becos he is the other race, Aym sorta scared of the other races bcos we have so much cornflict with them"

"He's muslim, you know and that has a lot to do with it"

"I don't want the Hussein thing, ayve had enough of Hussein"

No, no Jon Stewart quotes, but "the good people of West Virginia speaking for themselves" ;) :p :


In the same show, McCain ("Warm Monger") going green, a "Man on Emission" :laugh: :laugh:

[rah]

Just like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejTmistHFw0

Lol there are some nutbags out there.

[Roamy]

now here is a interesting story for you all - the truth

I was on a flight last week and sitting between two black guys. We were talking about the world situation and politics.

They believe Obama will be elected and then shot to death. Creating the
destruction of all the major cities in the US.
They believe that explosives where planted inside the towers so when the "Bush" airplane plan was carried out the towers would be sure and go down.
they claim the only reason the last plane did not reach its target is because the target was the white house and gee it is quite strange that the Pres was out of the white house as all of 9/11 was taking place.
:eek: :laugh: :eek: :rotflmao: :eek:

I said to myself "are you related to EKI and SOD"

[Tomi]

now here is a interesting story for you all - the truth

I was on a flight last week and sitting between two black guys. We were talking about the world situation and politics.

They believe Obama will be elected and then shot to death. Creating the
destruction of all the major cities in the US.
They believe that explosives where planted inside the towers so when the "Bush" airplane plan was carried out the towers would be sure and go down.
they claim the only reason the last plane did not reach its target is because the target was the white house and gee it is quite strange that the Pres was out of the white house as all of 9/11 was taking place.
:eek: :laugh: :eek: :rotflmao: :eek:

I said to myself "are you related to EKI and SOD"

Sounds more like CIA to me, or someone else who are scared of their own shadow.

[Canada Cornrow]

You do realise that not agreeing with those guys makes you part of the overall conspiricy right?

[Valve Bounce]

You do realise that not agreeing with those guys makes you part of the overall conspiricy right?

I think if fousto disagreed with those guys, they would have started some altercation that would have landed all three in a Federal Prison.

[SOD]

now here is a interesting story for you all - the truth

I was on a flight last week and sitting between two black guys. We were talking about the world situation and politics.

They believe Obama will be elected and then shot to death. Creating the
destruction of all the major cities in the US.
They believe that explosives where planted inside the towers so when the "Bush" airplane plan was carried out the towers would be sure and go down.
they claim the only reason the last plane did not reach its target is because the target was the white house and gee it is quite strange that the Pres was out of the white house as all of 9/11 was taking place.
:eek: :laugh: :eek: :rotflmao: :eek:

I said to myself "are you related to EKI and SOD"

classless and compeltely wrong. The trouble is fousto, those two passangers you were travelling with were closer to the truth than you are.

[Valve Bounce]

I said to myself "are you related to EKI and SOD"

At the risk of being banned, I was going to say that maybe they shared the same brain. :p : :D

[Canada Cornrow]

classless and compeltely wrong. The trouble is fousto, those two passangers you were travelling with were closer to the truth than you are.



Ron Paul 2008!

:p

[SOD]

Ron Paul 2008!

:p

Ron Paul, now there's a guy who knows what is going on.

[Canada Cornrow]

Ron Paul, now there's a guy who knows what is going on.

And on, and on, and on, and on, and on...
:rolleyes:

[SOD]

how's that inflation tax working out for you? :)


are you ready for when you'll be paying taxes to China?

[Canada Cornrow]

how's that inflation tax working out for you? :)

Just fine. Haven't even noticed it. Thanks for asking.