Emissions standards comment...

[JSH]

"If I was living in the USA and I wanted a performance car I'd buy a car built in Australia. The Pontiac G8 (read Holden Commodore) is the most powerful car on the market for under $30,000. Plus I know that it's been built to better quality control, emissions and impact standards than anything in the USA because the ADR is tougher."


I got this quote from another thread and thought it needed a new thread because the other one was BS.

But this above comment interests me. I'd like to know if the poster of this comment can prove particularly the bit about an Aussie built vehicle being built to stricter emissions standards than a US built car.

First of all, the vehicle must be certified to the market it is sold, not where it is built. And I can't find in any of my literature or internet searching a good comparison of EURO vs CARB/US emissions standards. It gets particularly muddy IMO when the different driving cycles are taken into account.

If such an apples to apples comparison exists I'd be very interested to see it.

[schmenke]

Are any Aussie-built cars exported to the U.S.?

[Daniel]

Yes. Some Holden's are sold as Pontiac's

[Rollo]

I got this quote from another thread and thought it needed a new thread because the other one was BS.

But this above comment interests me. I'd like to know if the poster of this comment can prove particularly the bit about an Aussie built vehicle being built to stricter emissions standards than a US built car.

First of all, the vehicle must be certified to the market it is sold, not where it is built. And I can't find in any of my literature or internet searching a good comparison of EURO vs CARB/US emissions standards. It gets particularly muddy IMO when the different driving cycles are taken into account.

If such an apples to apples comparison exists I'd be very interested to see it.

Done :D

Australia adopted the European Union Standards wholesale from 1st Jan 2002 because they were the world's toughest. Likewise when any Euro standard changes on this, Australian built cars also change.

http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/ja/releases/2000/february/a27_2000.htm


Applying to all new vehicles imported to Australia or manufactured here, the new international standard establishes maximum levels of fine particles, nitrogen oxide, carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons agreed by the UN Economic Commission for Europe, Senator Hill said.

The comparable data from the US and Euro standards are thus:

Euro IV Jan. 2003
1.0 g/km of CO
0.10 g/km of HC
0.08 g/km of NOx

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t2.php
Tier II - Bin 5 (stringest standard for "normal" passenger cars")
3.4 g/mi of CO
0.105 g/mi of HC
0.05 g/mi of NOx

Since the mile is longer than the km by a factor of 1.6 then the comparison this thus (Euro in brackets):
5.44 (1.0) g/km of CO
0.168 (0.100) g/km of HC
0.08 (0.08) g/km of NOx

Since Australian vehicles are built to "best practice" for export, they're built to Euro IV regs and ADR's on side impact.

[Rollo]

Are any Aussie-built cars exported to the U.S.?

Australia only builds three lines of production. Toyota Camry/Aurion, Ford Falcon/Territory and the Holden Commodore and derivatives. Of these three, only the Holden Commodore is exported and sees life as the Pontiac G8, Vauxhall VX8R, Chevrolet Omega.

http://www.pontiac.com/g8/
http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vx/carsandvans/brandcarhub.do?method=loadBrandHubCarPage&vehicleType=C&scope=S&brandName=vxr8

The 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO was the Holden Monaro (a Commodore derivative) and sold 40,808 vehicles.

Pontiac also want the Holden Ute, but have lamely called it the Pontiac G8 Sport Truck... eeew.

[janneppi]

Pontiac also want the Holden Ute, but have lamely called it the Pontiac G8 Sport Truck... eeew.

I thought it was agreed it is to be called the Mullet? :)

[JSH]

Done :D

Australia adopted the European Union Standards wholesale from 1st Jan 2002 because they were the world's toughest. Likewise when any Euro standard changes on this, Australian built cars also change.

http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/ja/releases/2000/february/a27_2000.htm



The comparable data from the US and Euro standards are thus:

Euro IV Jan. 2003
1.0 g/km of CO
0.10 g/km of HC
0.08 g/km of NOx

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t2.php
Tier II - Bin 5 (stringest standard for "normal" passenger cars")
3.4 g/mi of CO
0.105 g/mi of HC
0.05 g/mi of NOx

Since the mile is longer than the km by a factor of 1.6 then the comparison this thus (Euro in brackets):
5.44 (1.0) g/km of CO
0.168 (0.100) g/km of HC
0.08 (0.08) g/km of NOx

Since Australian vehicles are built to "best practice" for export, they're built to Euro IV regs and ADR's on side impact.

aaah... good. Finally, someone who isn't speaking out of their arse. :up:

But what's not so clear to me is the driving cycle used. US drive cycle(which their regs are based on) is completely different to the EURO drive cycle. Ok, EURO uses more high speed so it should still be harder but .....

And what about CARB. Many more states in the US are picking up CARB regs over and above the normal US standards.

[airshifter]

Tier 2 Bin 5 is far from the most stringent standard. Large SUVs and trucks often fit withing such a rating. There are standards for low, ultra low, and even zero emissions vehicles. I'm not sure about the EU standards, but most US standards were set for either 50,000 or 100,000 miles, which are considered partial life and full useful life. These are standards for a used vehicle, not a new one.
============================NOx/NMOG/CO/PM/HCHO
Bin 1 2004+ LDV, LLDT, HLDT, MDPV 0.00 0.000 0.0 0.0 0.0
Bin 2 2004+ LDV, LLDT, HLDT, MDPV 0.02 0.010 2.1 0.01 0.004
Bin 3 2004+ LDV, LLDT, HLDT, MDPV 0.03 0.055 2.1 0.01 0.011
Bin 4 2004+ LDV, LLDT, HLDT, MDPV 0.04 0.070 2.1 0.01 0.011
Bin 5 2004+ LDV, LLDT, HLDT, MDPV 0.07 0.090 4.2 0.01 0.018

The GTO mentioned several posts above is a Bin 8 vehicle by US standards, well below the fleet averages that must be maintained, and below must large trucks and SUVs sold in the US. A full sized Chevy pickup truck is a Bin 4 with the 5.3 liter V-8 engine.



And just a note on the incorrect numbers given. For the metric to US conversion, the math given is backwards. You can't take an already longer distance, multiply it, then compare it to a shorter distance for standards. ;)

[Rollo]

Bollocks you can't.

A mile is longer than a kilometer. A kilogram is bigger than a pound. A gallon is bigger than a litre. An imperial gallon is bigger than a US one. Since 1mi=1.61km it stands to reason that the same device is going to burn 1.61 times the amount over a mile than a kilometer because a mile is 1.61 times longer.

[JSH]

There are standards for low, ultra low, and even zero emissions vehicles.

These are the CARB(California Air Resources Board) emissions standards.

LEV = Low Emissions Vehicle
ULEV = Ultra Low.....
SULEV = Super Ultra...
PZEV = Partial Zero ....

To sell a car in California(and now many - and increasing) other states in the US, you must meet the CARB regs.

[airshifter]

Bollocks you can't.

A mile is longer than a kilometer. A kilogram is bigger than a pound. A gallon is bigger than a litre. An imperial gallon is bigger than a US one. Since 1mi=1.61km it stands to reason that the same device is going to burn 1.61 times the amount over a mile than a kilometer because a mile is 1.61 times longer.

Completely understood. But you took the Euro standards based on grams per kilometer, then took the US standards based on grams per mile. To make even comparisons, you should have multiplied the Euro standard by 1.6 to make it grams per mile, or divided the US standard to make it grams per kilometer.

What you did instead was to multiply the US standard by 1.6, making it 1.6 times the emissions of a mile. That would make the result 2.56 times the emissions in one kilometer.

---------------------------------------------------------

Euro IV Jan. 2003
1.0 g/km of CO X 1.6 = 1.6 g/mi
0.10 g/km of HC X 1.6 = .16 g/mi
0.08 g/km of NOx X 1.6 = .0128 g/mi

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t2.php
Tier II - Bin 5 (stringest standard for "normal" passenger cars")
3.4 g/mi of CO
0.105 g/mi of HC
0.05 g/mi of NOx

----------------------------------------------------------

The standards differ obviously, with the US having standards for particulate matter as well. That is what keeps a lot of Euro diesel cars from import or sale in the US. I can't say why it seems the EU is more concerned with CO levels and the US particulate matter, but they must have their reasons.

[airshifter]

These are the CARB(California Air Resources Board) emissions standards.

LEV = Low Emissions Vehicle
ULEV = Ultra Low.....
SULEV = Super Ultra...
PZEV = Partial Zero ....

To sell a car in California(and now many - and increasing) other states in the US, you must meet the CARB regs.


California has had unique air quality problems for decades, and thus was one of the first to take action on emissions. They have among the toughest emissions standards in the world, and almost all are more stringent than the US EPA standards. Because of that, just about anything that comples with CARB regs will meet standards in any other state.

Since California had stricter standards, the EPA worked with them in standardizing test procedures somewhat. I'm not sure if they are all the same now, but the EPA procedures for testing both emissions and fuel consumption have changed greatly. New testing includes cold start situations, speeds up to 80 mph, air conditioning use, and heavier acceleration rates as compared to old testing. They also now allow for two different gasoline octane grades, where the old test had a single type set as the standard for testing.