Austrian abuse case...

[pino]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7372477.stm

I say put him in jail and throw the key into the sea :angryfire :

[Azumanga Davo]

Why such a lenient punishment, pino?

Its strange to think about how such an atrocity (theres that word again) was undiscovered for such a long time.

He should never get out of wherever he is being put away alive.

[Daniel]

Very hard to comprehend how someone could do this to anyone let alone his own daughter and children/grandchildren :crazy:

[millencolin]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7372477.stm

I say put him in jail and throw the key into the sea :angryfire :

Or you could throw him into the sea.... a shark infested sea :p :

[Donney]

I'd recommend a punishment more a la Marcelus Wallace for 24 years.

[Azumanga Davo]

Or you could throw him into the sea.... a shark infested sea :p :

...with a television permanently set to Rove Live.

Not envious... ;)

[BDunnell]

Very hard to comprehend how someone could do this to anyone let alone his own daughter and children/grandchildren :crazy:

Indeed, but the sad truth is that there have always been similarly warped minds, and in no smaller or greater proportion than is the case today.

[A.F.F.]

I'd recommend a punishment more a la Marcelus Wallace for 24 years.

Yep. Medieval is the only kind to get the job done in this case.

[pino]

Why such a lenient punishment, pino?

He should never get out of wherever he is being put away alive.

Exactly ! What I meant is, never let him get out and never let anyone or anything in, no water no foods...

[Powered by Cosworth]

I don't want to sympathize with him, not let him get off any punishment the Austrian police will give him. But this guy obviously has something in his mind desperately wrong with him. I'm not sure what to put next, I really don't know. What he did was very very wrong and he deserves whats coming to him. argh I don't know what to say, i'm speechless o_o.

[millencolin]

...with a television permanently set to Rove Live.

Not envious... ;)

How about, put him in a room full of tv's, with channel tens worst content surrounding him non-stop. Rove Live, Big Brother, Australian Idol, So you think you can dance, Biggest Loser... throw in some of the crap from the other channels like Sea Patrol and 'It Takes two', and you have a perfectly good form of torture.

[ShiftingGears]

Disturbing. I hope he rots in jail.

[Azumanga Davo]

How about, put him in a room full of tv's, with channel tens worst content surrounding him non-stop. Rove Live, Big Brother, Australian Idol, So you think you can dance, Biggest Loser... throw in some of the crap from the other channels like Sea Patrol and 'It Takes two', and you have a perfectly good form of torture.

Alright, alright, I was on the Grassy Knoll!

[dc10]

Did you see him living it up with his male friends on a beach in Thailand while that poor woman and children were back home in prison?
English news today says the kids have their own gibberish language.

[Drew]

Surely the man is horribly messed up?

This is the second time this kind of thing has happened in Austria recently, what's going on?!

[BDunnell]

This is the second time this kind of thing has happened in Austria recently, what's going on?!

I suspect nothing. There is no evidence to suggest that the two cases are in any way linked. Maybe social services and/or the police have been falling down on the job somewhat, but other than that I don't think these things suggest any deeper problems in Austrian society.

[AndySpeed]

He's already 73 though so just throwing him in jail doesn't seem enough punishment to me as he won't likely suffer for nearly as long as his captives did.

[Valve Bounce]

Did you see him living it up with his male friends on a beach in Thailand while that poor woman and children were back home in prison?
English news today says the kids have their own gibberish language.

The reports are getting more and more upsetting. I would dig a hole in the desert, bury him up to his neck, and then smear honey all over his head.

[pino]

Can you believe a lawyer is trying now to prove the guy is mental ill, so he can avoid the jail... :mad:

[Mark]

Well I don't think there is any doubt that he *is* mentally ill. That doesn't mean he shouldn't go to jail forever...

[BDunnell]

Can you believe a lawyer is trying now to prove the guy is mental ill, so he can avoid the jail... :mad:

Yes, of course. He is clearly mentally ill. But I don't think anybody, including his legal team, is seriously arguing that he should be allowed to walk free. It may very well be that jail isn't the best place for him, and that some other form of secure institution is preferable.

[A.F.F.]

I don't think I could ever work as a defense council :mark:

It's maybe because I still have a spine.

[Daniel]

I don't think I could ever work as a defense council :mark:

It's maybe because I still have a spine.
You defended Paasonen for a long time :p

[A.F.F.]

You defended Paasonen for a long time :p


And I still do. However, I consider Skoda driving Paasonen a little different than that sick ****ing ******* mother****er ****ing **** who should be locked up in the same frigging cell with dozen of the meanest abusers keen to homosexual activities and wait for the justice to be served.

[BDunnell]

And I still do. However, I consider Skoda driving Paasonen a little different than that sick ****ing ******* mother****er ****ing **** who should be locked up in the same frigging cell with dozen of the meanest abusers keen to homosexual activities and wait for the justice to be served.

A system of 'justice' that, if applied across the board, would do nothing to understand and thus tackle the reasons why people come to commit such crimes. But, if you want to live in a more dangerous society in the longer run, fine by me.

[A.F.F.]

Why would you think the reasons ever to be clear if they commit him either in jail or mental institute ?? It's just a longshot but I don't think that man is or was mentally ill. Of course, by "our standards" his actions feel sick but I think he very well knew what he was doing all the time. Your idea seem fine and humble but i'd feel the society much safer if this guy was instantly eliminated. Him living in prison or an institute hardly ever make the reasons clear, more likely feed the copy cats.

[Daniel]

And I still do. However, I consider Skoda driving Paasonen a little different than that sick ****ing ******* mother****er ****ing **** who should be locked up in the same frigging cell with dozen of the meanest abusers keen to homosexual activities and wait for the justice to be served.

Wasn't comparing Paasonen to this guy. Just saying you could be a good defence lawyer :D

[BDunnell]

It's just a longshot but I don't think that man is or was mentally ill. Of course, by "our standards" his actions feel sick but I think he very well knew what he was doing all the time.

Just because he knew what he was doing doesn't mean to say that he isn't mentally ill. The probability is that he certainly is.


Your idea seem fine and humble but i'd feel the society much safer if this guy was instantly eliminated.

Whereas I feel that society becomes infinitely more brutal when the state starts executing people.


Him living in prison or an institute hardly ever make the reasons clear, more likely feed the copy cats.

There is no evidence for this being the case. Anyway, aren't people just as likely to copy what he did (which I don't think they are at all) if he were to be executed?

[Garry Walker]

He is clearly mentally ill..
Was Ted Bundy mentally ill? Was John Gacy mentally ill? Was Jeffrey Dahmer mentally ill? Or did they just enjoy whatever they were doing, no matter how twisted and sick it sounds to us? There is a good reason to think this man is the same. He just enjoyed doing what he did.

Just because a lawyer is trying to prove he really is mentally ill, doesn`t mean anything, it is a common tactic applied trying to get the defendant off the hook.

[A.F.F.]

Just because he knew what he was doing doesn't mean to say that he isn't mentally ill. The probability is that he certainly is.


The probability is that he isn't. Are you qualified enough to say he is based on you know about the case?



Whereas I feel that society becomes infinitely more brutal when the state starts executing people.?

This is where I disagree. I don't see why the punishment can't be cruel enough if the crimes are. State executing people could also prevent in advance.



There is no evidence for this being the case. Anyway, aren't people just as likely to copy what he did (which I don't think they are at all) if he were to be executed?

Point taken.

Let me reprhase what I said. I personally felt happier if this guy gets a punishment related what he did to his daughter and his grandchildren.

[Tomi]

Was Ted Bundy mentally ill? Was John Gacy mentally ill? Was Jeffrey Dahmer mentally ill? Or did they just enjoy whatever they were doing, no matter how twisted and sick it sounds to us? There is a good reason to think this man is the same. He just enjoyed doing what he did.

Just because a lawyer is trying to prove he really is mentally ill, doesn`t mean anything, it is a common tactic applied trying to get the defendant off the hook.

Do you really think someone who do things like this is normal and not ill ?

[Garry Walker]

Do you really think someone who do things like this is normal and not ill ?
It could very well be so, although I wouldn`t use the word normal. I just think he was perfectly aware of what he was doing, could control it and could have stopped it, if needed.

What do you think of people who enjoy sex-games with faeces? Sick right? I think so too. Does it make those people ill?

[BDunnell]

Was Ted Bundy mentally ill? Was John Gacy mentally ill? Was Jeffrey Dahmer mentally ill? Or did they just enjoy whatever they were doing, no matter how twisted and sick it sounds to us? There is a good reason to think this man is the same. He just enjoyed doing what he did.

Just because a lawyer is trying to prove he really is mentally ill, doesn`t mean anything, it is a common tactic applied trying to get the defendant off the hook.

But, in the same way, it also might be true.

Personally, I don't believe people are just 'evil', or similar, because humans are rather more complex than that. It is surely a good idea to try and understand the darker aspects of the human condition rather than just executing those who commit such awful deeds without thinking any more about the underlying factors.

[BDunnell]

The probability is that he isn't. Are you qualified enough to say he is based on you know about the case?

No. Are you?



This is where I disagree. I don't see why the punishment can't be cruel enough if the crimes are. State executing people could also prevent in advance.

I believe that societies can do better than that, and I know I wouldn't sleep any safer if the death penalty were to be reimposed here in the UK. In fact, if that ever were to happen, I would be seriously tempted to go and live elsewhere.

[Tomi]

It could very well be so, although I wouldn`t use the word normal. I just think he was perfectly aware of what he was doing, could control it and could have stopped it, if needed.

What do you think of people who enjoy sex-games with faeces? Sick right? I think so too. Does it make those people ill?

If we stick to this case, I think in Austria like in any civiliced country it not the lawyers who deside if someone is menthally ill or not, doctors do that before the case goes to the court.

[BDunnell]

If we stick to this case, I think in Austria like in any civiliced country it not the lawyers who deside if someone is menthally ill or not, doctors do that before the case goes to the court.

Exactly. I am perfectly happy with the judgment of expert medical opinion in these cases.

[Garry Walker]

But, in the same way, it also might be true.



You just seemed to certain he was mentally ill, the truth is neither of us know and can only speculate.

[A.F.F.]

You just seemed to certain he was mentally ill, the truth is neither of us know and can only speculate.

Surely he will get a diagnosis some sort. What I've witnessed through my work, it happens very easily novadays at least here in Finland but i wouldn't think Austria to be any different. A sane person can have the papers of if not mentally ill but minor diagnosis which in this case probably support his placement to the range of mental healt care instead of prison. :mark:


All thanks to creedy spineless lawyers but also those idealistic humanics whose world view I support only to a certain point.

[Garry Walker]

Surely he will get a diagnosis some sort. What I've witnessed through my work, it happens very easily novadays at least here in Finland but i wouldn't think Austria to be any different. A sane person can have the papers of if not mentally ill but minor diagnosis which in this case probably support his placement to the range of mental healt care instead of prison. :mark:


All thanks to creedy spineless lawyers but also those idealistic humanics whose world view I support only to a certain point.

You make very good points, unfortunately.

Just out of curiosity, what job do you have?

[Tomi]

All thanks to creedy spineless lawyers but also those idealistic humanics whose world view I support only to a certain point.

Actually it has nothing to do with world view or idealism, it has to do about that the law should be equal for everyone, and not changed to different case by case.

[A.F.F.]

it has to do about that the law should be equal for everyone, and not changed to different case by case.


Exactly. That's what I've been trying to say all a long.

[Tomi]

Exactly. That's what I've been trying to say all a long.

No reason why it should not be in this case too, Austrians are smart enough not to turn a court case into a political issue.

[A.F.F.]

Well, my fear is that the real crime gets forgotten here and this whole thing becomes a political issue indeed.

I ask all of you to STOP for a minute and REALLY think what this jerk did.

Years and years of continous child abuse which alone is the biggest crime of all. Add sexual abuse and a lifetime imprisoment for his grandchildren.

Only thing I feel bad for this guy is he is so old already and he gets away too easy.

[pino]

I totally agree with you A.F.F. This with no doubt is the most terrible, disguisting and crazy story I've heard in my life, and I cannot take it off my head...feel so sorry for that poor girl and her kids :(

[Garry Walker]

I totally agree with you A.F.F. This with no doubt is the most terrible, disguisting and crazy story I've heard in my life, and I cannot take it off my head...feel so sorry for that poor girl and her kids :(

It is a sick case without a doubt, unfortunately I have heard of similarly bad and possibly worse cases.


It is heartbreaking that such things happen.