Bourdais [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

gloomyDAY

28th April 2008, 01:34

Outqualified his much-hyped teammate twice already! Hopefully we get to see a race where both the STR drivers finish to get a good idea of race pace. Glad to see Bourdais has made the switch well :up: I hope his progress in F1 is getting attention from the right people. I can't wait for both Seb's to get the new car, get out of the back of the pack, and see who can make progress towards the front.

I'm just left here a little dumbfounded over the fact that Bourdais has received more criticisms than Vetter in the course of this season. Almost got fourth in Australia (managed 2 pts.), consistently out-paced and out-qualified Vettel, and has managed to finish races.

Destroying the new car is a lowlight for Bourdais, but it was testing. As of right now, Bourdais has the upper hand.

Valve Bounce

28th April 2008, 02:27

...........and Vettel has Sutil :eek:

truefan72

28th April 2008, 04:07

I'm impressed by bourdais,

IMO he should be in a top team or much better outfit.
He has the racing ability, quickness and techincal/analytical skills to consitently score points.

The only thing holding him back right now is the torro rosso car.

I can safely say that he would be doing a much better job than NPJr, Timo Glock, Nakajima, in their resepective outfits.

Ranger

28th April 2008, 04:12

I can safely say that he would be doing a much better job than NPJr, Timo Glock, Nakajima, in their resepective outfits.
Nakajima has left somewhat of an impression on Rosberg, the other two have not.

ShiftingGears

28th April 2008, 04:22

Nakajima has left somewhat of an impression on Rosberg, the other two have not.

Piquet also made quite an impression on Bourdais yesterday!

Valve Bounce

28th April 2008, 06:45

And some of these guys have left quite an impression on DC :D

ioan

28th April 2008, 09:02

ioan

28th April 2008, 09:03

Piquet also made quite an impression on Bourdais yesterday!

If it wasn't for Bourdais copying DC's antics everything would have been fine.

Ranger

28th April 2008, 09:38

After yesterdays disgraceful move I was wishing to see him back in Champ Car, or whatever is called now. :rolleyes:

If it wasn't for Bourdais copying DC's antics everything would have been fine.

No, if it wasn't for Piquet's stupidity they both would have been fine. That pass was hopelessly optimistic and they probably would've made contact even if Bourdais did see him (he didn't). Piquet was most at fault here.

Nonetheless, Bourdais has more to show this season thus far than Vettel.

ioan

28th April 2008, 10:11

No, if it wasn't for Piquet's stupidity they both would have been fine. That pass was hopelessly optimistic and they probably would've made contact even if Bourdais did see him (he didn't). Piquet was most at fault here.

And why is that?!
Piquet was more advanced on the inside than Bourdais when the French turned in.
Bourdais explanation: "I didn't see him, last time I checked, two corners before that, he wasn't that close!"
Sounds and looks like DC. Because they aren't "that" close (go figure what that means :rolleyes: ) it doesn't mean that they can't get closer and outbrake you while you are napping!

ArrowsFA1

28th April 2008, 10:25

Sounds and looks like DC. Because they aren't "that" close (go figure what that means :rolleyes: ) it doesn't mean that they can't get closer and outbrake you while you are napping!
Two points:
1) Drivers don't race looking in their mirrors. They obviously check them, and use their judgement based on what they see. Seb obviously felt NP was not close enough to make a move. He was proved wrong.
2) The major problem we are seeing this year are the higher cockpit sides. There's no doubt they restrict a drivers' vision, and this is proving to be a real problem. Having left the door open for Piquet because he didn't expect the pass, Seb hit the Renault because he couldn't see it.

Ranger

28th April 2008, 10:26

And why is that?!
Piquet was more advanced on the inside than Bourdais when the French turned in.
Bourdais explanation: "I didn't see him, last time I checked, two corners before that, he wasn't that close!"
Sounds and looks like DC. Because they aren't "that" close (go figure what that means :rolleyes: ) it doesn't mean that they can't get closer and outbrake you while you are napping!

You aren't "that" close when the passing attempt is unlikely to stick, and as Piquet proved, he wasn't "that" close.

Just because Piquet tried to outbrake Bourdais doesn't mean Bourdais had to deviate from his line. Besides, he didn't see Piquet until he had already started to turn into the corner.

It was a pretty standard racing incident but I maintain that Piquet was most at fault.

N. Jones

28th April 2008, 10:28

And some of these guys have left quite an impression on DC :D
Alongside the paint they've left on his car. I wonder if that is a driver's way of signing a piece of memorabilia, much like high school yearbooks?

Garry Walker

28th April 2008, 18:03

Outqualified his much-hyped teammate twice already! Hopefully we get to see a race where both the STR drivers finish to get a good idea of race pace. Glad to see Bourdais has made the switch well :up:

I agree 100%

After yesterdays disgraceful move I was wishing to see him back in Champ Car, or whatever is called now. :rolleyes:

LOL!!!!!!

What was disgraceful about his move? That he took the normal racing line and didn`t expect Piquet to go for a gap that never was there.
Going by your "logic", you would have also blamed Schumacher for the collision with sato at spa a few years ago.

But we know the real reason why you are saying what you are saying. It is because your new hero Vettel has been beaten again by Bourdais and has so far shown nothing.

If it wasn't for Bourdais copying DC's antics everything would have been fine.

DC and SB both were rammed out by morons yesterday.

And why is that?!
Piquet was more advanced on the inside than Bourdais when the French turned in.
Bourdais explanation: "I didn't see him, last time I checked, two corners before that, he wasn't that close!"
Provide a source for that "two corners before that" comment, or admit you made it up.

Why would SB look in his mirrors 2 corners before the corner where they crashed? It is not a place where one can overtake. But the corner where they actually crashed, there you can overtake. But NP was too far, but then decided to go for a gap that never was there and I fail to see how anyone unbiased with any intelligence could argue otherwise.

Sounds and looks like DC. Because they aren't "that" close (go figure what that means :rolleyes: ) it doesn't mean that they can't get closer and outbrake you while you are napping!
SB actually said that he braked quite late, the problem was that Piquet braked far too late to make the corner and used SB as a brake.

ioan

28th April 2008, 18:47

What was disgraceful about his move? That he took the normal racing line and didn`t expect Piquet to go for a gap that never was there.

Bla bla bla!
If the gap wasn't there how did Piquet get so far up inside the corner?!
Next time watch the race and then maybe post a comment. :rolleyes:

ioan

28th April 2008, 18:49

SB actually said that he braked quite late, the problem was that Piquet braked far too late to make the corner and used SB as a brake.

I know what SB said, as I was watching the race on the French TV and the commentators weren't very impressed with his actions and comments either.

Garry Walker

28th April 2008, 18:58

Bla bla bla!
If the gap wasn't there how did Piquet get so far up inside the corner?!
Because bla he bla decided bla not bla to bla bla brake bla for bla the corner bla bla bla at bla the bla bla right time. Bla.

Next time watch the race and then maybe post a comment. :rolleyes:

I watched it. Maybe if put fanboy goggles on, it would have helped me see something that normal people missed.

I know what SB said, as I was watching the race on the French TV and the commentators weren't very impressed with his actions and comments either.

You have failed to prove your comments regarding SB that I highlighted in my earlier post. For the moment you are considered a liar.

ioan

28th April 2008, 19:37

Because bla he bla decided bla not bla to bla bla brake bla for bla the corner bla bla bla at bla the bla bla right time. Bla.

I watched it. Maybe if put fanboy goggles on, it would have helped me see something that normal people missed.

You have failed to prove your comments regarding SB that I highlighted in my earlier post. For the moment you are considered a liar.

Honestly, did you lose your pills or what?
Can't you post a civilized reply without calling someone or his/her comments idiot or stupid? It's not just about me, take a look at your post this afternoon. You're not the God of motorsports fans, just in case you had any ideas you might be!

JSH

28th April 2008, 19:48

You're not the God of motorsports fans, just in case you had any ideas you might be!

Wow.... "Pot.... Meet Kettle." :p :

Garry Walker

28th April 2008, 20:07

Honestly, did you lose your pills or what?
Can't you post a civilized reply without calling someone or his/her comments idiot or stupid? It's not just about me, take a look at your post this afternoon. You're not the God of motorsports fans, just in case you had any ideas you might be!

I fail to see what in my post was worse than what you posted.
If a person says something stupid (as in my view you did), I will call things as I see it.

ioan

28th April 2008, 20:07

Wow.... "Pot.... Meet Kettle." :p :

:p : ;)

ioan

28th April 2008, 20:08

I fail to see what in my post was worse than what you posted.
If a person says something stupid (as in my view you did), I will call things as I see it.

Than maybe others should treat you in the same way, however most people around here are way more civilized than that.

Garry Walker

28th April 2008, 20:10

Than maybe others should treat you in the same way, however most people around here are way more civilized than that.

People can call me whatever they want, it doesn`t bother me.

There is a good way of avoiding being insulted/laughed at. It is called not posting bull****.

ioan

28th April 2008, 20:37

People can call me whatever they want, it doesn`t bother me.

There is a good way of avoiding being insulted/laughed at. It is called not posting bull****.

Because you think that if someone makes a mistake than it should be laughed at and/or insulted?!
You're an ethical dwarf!

BDunnell

28th April 2008, 21:49

Does anyone apart from me think that we should go back to mainly discussing the drivers, cars and racing?

wmcot

28th April 2008, 23:59

Sounds like a couple of forum members are having a bad day today! :)

keysersoze

29th April 2008, 00:54

It looked like Piquet was plenty alongside Bourdais.

The statement "I didn't know he was there" cuts no ice.

Valve Bounce

29th April 2008, 02:16

Sounds like a couple of forum members are having a bad day today! :)

Sounds like PMT :eek:

gloomyDAY

29th April 2008, 02:32

Sounds like PMT :eek:
Meaning?

aryan

29th April 2008, 04:25

I can safely say that he would be doing a much better job than NPJr, Timo Glock, Nakajima, in their resepective outfits.

Seconded!

aryan

29th April 2008, 04:27

Piquet was overly optimistic in his move. He even said it himself that because of his mistake, he needed to take more risk to compensate for his loss of position.

And yes, the higher cockpit sides are proving to be a problem.

As has been said, racing incident with 80% of the fault on Piquet.

Valve Bounce

29th April 2008, 04:37

Meaning?

Google will explain all. :eek:

Tazio

29th April 2008, 04:55

Google will explain all. :eek:
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ShiftingGears

29th April 2008, 06:35

It is also a little irritating in these discussions when there is no video footage on the net availiable due to copyright violation. It makes fully reasoned discussion difficult.

seppefan

29th April 2008, 10:35

After yesterdays disgraceful move I was wishing to see him back in Champ Car, or whatever is called now. :rolleyes:

Ferrari made a open wheel car for Rahal if you recall...

I am surprised that this move has made people so hot under the collar. It was a racing incident, SB did not see him, should he have ? Was NP a little over optimistic in braking and / or expecting SB to see him.....
Nelson Piquet, DNF
“I made my first mistake early on and went off the track, but I was able to rejoin down the field and from then on I tried to attack, which meant I had to take a few risks. I am disappointed, but there is no doubt that we have made a lot of progress this weekend. I must take what I can from this race, so that I do not make the same mistakes in the future. I am now looking forward to Turkey and doing my best there.”

BDunnell

29th April 2008, 10:47

I am surprised that this move has made people so hot under the collar. It was a racing incident, SB did not see him, should he have ? Was NP a little over optimistic in braking and / or expecting SB to see him.....

Maybe and maybe.

The trouble is that the slightest incident nowadays ends up with some people calling one or other of the drivers involved stupid, useless, past it, too inexperienced, or whatever. Hopefully we can put this behind us.

millencolin

29th April 2008, 13:18

Bourdais has impressed me so far this season, but I shouldn't be surprised after following his excellent champ car career. He should be in a better seat in f1 soon, he deserves it.

But the Piquet/Bourdais move kinda reminds me of the Bourdais/Will Power incident from the Gold Coast Indy in 2006. Bourdais came from nowhere, Will turned in, didnt see him there, they bang wheels and Will is out with suspension damage as well as losing the chance to win his home race. Basically the same moved occured there last weekend except Bourdais was the INNOCENT victim.

Think of it as karma seabass!

Sleeper

29th April 2008, 15:25

jens

29th April 2008, 21:21

2) The major problem we are seeing this year are the higher cockpit sides. There's no doubt they restrict a drivers' vision, and this is proving to be a real problem. Having left the door open for Piquet because he didn't expect the pass, Seb hit the Renault because he couldn't see it.

My thoughts too. This rule might not be as good as it seemed in the beginning and so far this year it has been seen on several occasions that the driver in front just turns into the corner without seeing his rival car (who is almost alongside and can't be seen in the mirrors). Quite obviously the higher head protection has created more incidents.

About Bourdais vs Vettel. To me it seems that Le Seb is better at setting up the car, which is creating the difference (also logical considering his huge amount of experience, although not in Formula One) - actually Le Seb has been rated as one of the best development drivers. I agree that while Vettel has looked excellent in the wet, he has been inconsistent in the dry. 0,5-second loss in qualifying was way too much. As Vettel hasn't been in GP2 and has risen to F1 quicker, then one may suggest he has arrived in F1 too soon. However, the hope remains that Der Seb would learn quickly and starts realising his potential. :)

Ranger

30th April 2008, 11:13

About Bourdais vs Vettel. To me it seems that Le Seb is better at setting up the car, which is creating the difference (also logical considering his huge amount of experience, although not in Formula One) - actually Le Seb has been rated as one of the best development drivers. I agree that while Vettel has looked excellent in the wet, he has been inconsistent in the dry. 0,5-second loss in qualifying was way too much. As Vettel hasn't been in GP2 and has risen to F1 quicker, then one may suggest he has arrived in F1 too soon. However, the hope remains that Der Seb would learn quickly and starts realising his potential. :)

I agree with that.

It will be interesting to see if Vettel is still as highly rated by F1 teams at the end of this year.

AGRfan

30th April 2008, 11:55

Both drivers are doing alright. Seabass is doing better. I just wish the car would last the whole race and the drivers would stop making mistakes, so when the car does or would make the full race they don't screw it up. I think that part of the blame goes to the way the team management in . Berger is just a ARSE!!!!!

Sleeper

30th April 2008, 13:10

My thoughts too. This rule might not be as good as it seemed in the beginning and so far this year it has been seen on several occasions that the driver in front just turns into the corner without seeing his rival car (who is almost alongside and can't be seen in the mirrors). Quite obviously the higher head protection has created more incidents.

About Bourdais vs Vettel. To me it seems that Le Seb is better at setting up the car, which is creating the difference (also logical considering his huge amount of experience, although not in Formula One) - actually Le Seb has been rated as one of the best development drivers. I agree that while Vettel has looked excellent in the wet, he has been inconsistent in the dry. 0,5-second loss in qualifying was way too much. As Vettel hasn't been in GP2 and has risen to F1 quicker, then one may suggest he has arrived in F1 too soon. However, the hope remains that Der Seb would learn quickly and starts realising his potential. :)
Vettel has had a year of testing before he got in a race so F1 wasnt something new to him, and he was doing Renault World Series before joining STR (and leading it as well) so I dont think not doing GP2 can be used as an excuse.

To be honest, I've never seen him as the new schumacher that some have, mainly because Paul Di Resta was just as fast, more consistent and dealt with pressure better to beat him to the F3 Euroseries title a couple of years ago when they were team mates at ASM.

wedge

30th April 2008, 13:16

Two points:
1) Drivers don't race looking in their mirrors. They obviously check them, and use their judgement based on what they see. Seb obviously felt NP was not close enough to make a move. He was proved wrong.
2) The major problem we are seeing this year are the higher cockpit sides. There's no doubt they restrict a drivers' vision, and this is proving to be a real problem. Having left the door open for Piquet because he didn't expect the pass, Seb hit the Renault because he couldn't see it.

But the Piquet/Bourdais move kinda reminds me of the Bourdais/Will Power incident from the Gold Coast Indy in 2006. Bourdais came from nowhere, Will turned in, didnt see him there, they bang wheels and Will is out with suspension damage as well as losing the chance to win his home race. Basically the same moved occured there last weekend except Bourdais was the INNOCENT victim.

Think of it as karma seabass!

The other problem is the mirrors are placed on the sidepods for better aero - which has been in American open-wheelers for some years, a recent trend in F1 (started by Renault last year, IIRC)

Off topic but notice the wing mirrors on most new cars aren't on the apex of the A-pillars anymore.

N. Jones

1st May 2008, 02:32

grantb4

1st May 2008, 04:03

Jeebus... I may shake my head when teams expect the world of their rookie drivers, but the fans? You all need to calm down and remember that these are rookies we are talking about. Not everyone can be great from the word go.

There won't be a next year for this team so the drivers better start getting some finishes fast if these lads want to have a drive somewhere next season.

Valve Bounce

1st May 2008, 04:40

There won't be a next year for this team so the drivers better start getting some finishes fast if these lads want to have a drive somewhere next season.

The somewhere won't be in F1. :(

Tazio

1st May 2008, 06:38

:rolleyes:

Mad_Hatter

1st May 2008, 22:51

In regards to Bourdais, his main problem(as I remember it) with not going to Renault was Flavio. I also thought I read somewhere that when Alonso leaves Renault Flav is leaving as well.

If Alonso does go to Ferrari, wouldn't it be logical for Renault to at least consider, Bourdais? French driver and all.

BDunnell

1st May 2008, 23:19

Jeebus... I may shake my head when teams expect the world of their rookie drivers, but the fans? You all need to calm down and remember that these are rookies we are talking about. Not everyone can be great from the word go.

I agree. I wonder what some people on here would have said about a certain M. Schumacher's debut — no doubt he would have been called dumb, stupid, etc for ruining his clutch right at the start. ;)