VX Racing in 2009 - what car?

[Iain]

Just found these images of the Vectra replacement - the Insignia.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/220485/vauxhall_insignia_revealed.html

It looks massive compared to the Vectra and doesn't look like it'd make a good touring car. Then again it could be the high doors and sleek roofline that give off a false impression.

Be interesting to see what way Vauxhall do go next year.

[SEATFreak]

No wonder SEAT are no nearer to emulating VXR in success. Every season they change something. Theirs no parity. No stability. They don't allow things they get to develop. Can you think of two seasons running where they have kept with exactly the same formula all the way throughout the team? I cannot.

So, why would VXR need to change?

1. I think VXR are too wise to go with the Insignia....for now anyway. Too wise to look at what is going on at SEAT and not learn from the somewhat monumental mistake they make time after time. And that is make several changes to the team every time. Take the Team Manager. Three in three years. Bebb in 2006, Haynes in 2007 and now Ward. Take the Leon. Three seasons with it and no two years identical. Jase', DT and Thommo in 06', just Jase and DT in 07' and it is still Jase and DT here in 08' but their now running with Diesel power.

2. Because of it they have absolutely nothing that will be worrying them at the moment. Whilst 888's crew probably spend half their time drinking tea and watching Jeremy Kyle NorthernSouth's crew probably run around like headless chickens around those Leons.

Triple Eight and VXR are doing just fine at the moment.

[AndySpeed]

SEATFreak, what are you on about?

The Insignia would be an obvious step for Vauxhall, although I doubt the team would run it in 2009. This year is their second with the Vectra and in having a third year with that car the stability would ensure that they stayed in contention for another title. VXRacing have run an "out of date" model before when they ran the Astra in 2004, by that time the sport hatch was already out, and so could probably do it again.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So, why would VXR need to change?



Because the Vectra is going out of production ;)

[Mp3 Astra]

Looks more like a Toyota...

Wouldn't it be allowed for VXR to continue with the Vectra even though it's out of production? Or is there a special rule that manufacturers have to use cars in production?

[AndySpeed]

Because the Vectra is going out of production ;)

So was the Astra Coupe in 2004 ;)

[Jimmy Magnusson]

That car does look quite catastrophical...

[racer69]

Looks more like a Toyota...

Wouldn't it be allowed for VXR to continue with the Vectra even though it's out of production? Or is there a special rule that manufacturers have to use cars in production?

There'd be no rule as such i wouldn't think, but from Vauxhall's point of view, would they want to pay to promote a car they aren't selling anymore?

[SEATFreak]

This year is their second with the Vectra and in having a third year with that car the stability would ensure that they stayed in contention for another title.

Precisely what I am on about. They have stability. The opposite of what SEAT has often done and something they have it seems never thought about achieving with all the constant chopping and changing they have done over the years. Something that I am sure I mentioned somewhere in my first paragraph.

But then again whilst I am on the personally sore subject of thinking what VXR have and what SEAT have not achieved, VXR have something else that SEAT it appears have always failed to achieve. Adaptability. Since 2001 they have proven to me and me personally that they have both. In running the Astra Coupe they proved to me they have stability because they used it for a good few years, and in withdrawing the Sport Hatch so quickly and starting running a Vectra which woukd become such an instant success, they have adaptability.

So with that said I reckon they could use the Insignia without harming in the least their total and seeming never ending dominance in the BTCC.

[m0rk]

Precisely what I am on about. They have stability. The opposite of wha Vectra which woukd become such an instant success, they have adaptability.

for adaptability read: MONEY

the more MONEY you have, the more testing & development you can do. Remember Matt Neal was testing the Vectra a week after Thruxton, and they kept testing right the way through.

SEAT were still building their car a week before Rockingham (I'm not saying they're a cheap operation, far from it, but they didn't have the six months worth of data as 888)

[SEATFreak]

Just as I thought. VXR buy the title with their wealth.

And I guess bringing in the Insignia will just be rubbing more of that financial salt into the wounds of SEAT, Team Dynamics, WSR and BMW Dealer Team UK.

They will do to the Insignia what they did to the Vectra. And that is make it an instant championship winning car. Mark my words.

[VX_Rules]

They wont use the isignia till the VXR coupe saloon model is released i dont think.

[VkmSpouge]

Looks more like a Toyota...

That is exactly what I thought about it.

Lets face it Vauxhall haven't had a good looking mid-sized saloon in quite sometime. In my opinion the Vectra has been pig ugly for years and the Insignia isn't much of an improvement

[Allyc85]

Just as I thought. VXR buy the title with their wealth.

And I guess bringing in the Insignia will just be rubbing more of that financial salt into the wounds of SEAT, Team Dynamics, WSR and BMW Dealer Team UK.

They will do to the Insignia what they did to the Vectra. And that is make it an instant championship winning car. Mark my words.

I wouldnt say that, id say they have more sense than to let buidling the car run on to the start of the season. Toyota in F1 spend huge amounts of money and are still rubbish, it has to be spent wisely :)

[Iain]

1. I think VXR are too wise to go with the Insignia....for now anyway. Too wise to look at what is going on at SEAT and not learn from the somewhat monumental mistake they make time after time. And that is make several changes to the team every time. Take the Team Manager. Three in three years. Bebb in 2006, Haynes in 2007 and now Ward. Take the Leon. Three seasons with it and no two years identical. Jase', DT and Thommo in 06', just Jase and DT in 07' and it is still Jase and DT here in 08' but their now running with Diesel power.

That's what happens in touring cars and motorsport in general. A lot of jobs are only for the 6 months of the season, then people move on to pastures new.

[kmchow]

Wasn't GM going to switch the the Volt or that new hatchback-ish veh in '09? Wouldn't it be cheaper to continue using the Vectra nameplate instead of having to start over with the Insignia?

[AndySpeed]

They wont use the isignia till the VXR coupe saloon model is released i dont think.

I see what you mean but under the S2000 regulations Coupe's aren't allowed as the cars have to have 4 doors.

[VX_Rules]

I said coupe saloon, There's going to be a CLS style model come out I do believe for the VXR variant model...

And the VOLT is chevy concept that will only maybe share the Astra's underpinnings, and the New Astra is too far away, especially a VXR model for that to be considered I do believe.

[Iain]

They could use local homologation and get dispensation to run a car with less than 4 doors, rather like Volvo have done in the STCC with the C30.

[Andy_B]

i had a play last week, to improve my digital skills and created a BTCC Insignia. Then expanded on that with a slightly different livery and an Opel version. To my eyes, the Insignia looks massive, but then, the Vectra isn't exactly small (and the Honda Accord in WTCC is similar size)

http://andy-joanne.smugmug.com/photos/283588636_RkPYC-M.jpg

larger image here:- http://andyblackmoredesign.deviantart.com/art/Vauxhall-Insignia-BTCC-concept-82963761

pure pie in the sky, although I have designed a couple of BTCC bodykits before so I have a rough idea of whats required and allowed.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

With that look, it needs a bigger engine (V8)... And to be RWD...

[AndyRAC]

i had a play last week, to improve my digital skills and created a BTCC Insignia. Then expanded on that with a slightly different livery and an Opel version. To my eyes, the Insignia looks massive, but then, the Vectra isn't exactly small (and the Honda Accord in WTCC is similar size)

http://andy-joanne.smugmug.com/photos/283588636_RkPYC-M.jpg

larger image here:- http://andyblackmoredesign.deviantart.com/art/Vauxhall-Insignia-BTCC-concept-82963761

pure pie in the sky, although I have designed a couple of BTCC bodykits before so I have a rough idea of whats required and allowed.


The Opel one looks the best. Maybe they'll use it in the DTM - Opel Insignia V6 RWD. Hmm,...

It doesn't matter what regs the BTCC are, Vauxhall will be in it. It's a pity they weren't as committed to the BRC in the same way.

[VX_Rules]

MMMM WOW! Those pics are amazing, I especially Like the 2nd Livery. I hope Vaux get i contact with you!

[RED VXR]

Andy RAC. I hope someone within the Vauxhall team sees your pictures. They are spot on.

[Andy_B]

Andy RAC. I hope someone within the Vauxhall team sees your pictures. They are spot on.

the beauty of the quote. I think you meant me ;)

[AndyRAC]

Andy RAC. I hope someone within the Vauxhall team sees your pictures. They are spot on.

No, It wasn't me. Wish I had thought of that. They are fantastic though.

[RED VXR]

the beauty of the quote. I think you meant me ;)
Sorry, it was late when i posted my comment. The pictures are spot on.

[stevevxr]

i had a play last week, to improve my digital skills and created a BTCC Insignia. Then expanded on that with a slightly different livery and an Opel version. To my eyes, the Insignia looks massive, but then, the Vectra isn't exactly small (and the Honda Accord in WTCC is similar size)

http://andy-joanne.smugmug.com/photos/283588636_RkPYC-M.jpg

larger image here:- http://andyblackmoredesign.deviantart.com/art/Vauxhall-Insignia-BTCC-concept-82963761

pure pie in the sky, although I have designed a couple of BTCC bodykits before so I have a rough idea of whats required and allowed.



You've got the vision i've got son !!! Nice one mate

[SEATFreak]

Why do I look at that pic and think even at a pictorial level we have a VXR touring car that is already beating SEAT?

[Iain]

Because you're a pessimist?

[VX_Rules]

And SEAT are useless? :P

[SEATFreak]

And SEAT are useless? :P

Got it in one. :up: :p : :)

[VX_Rules]

Lol. How predictable we have all become!

[SEATFreak]

I predicted you would say that! :D :laugh:

Seriously tho, minus my SEAT cap, I think the Insignia looks like it could be a stonking car to drive. Seems to have lots going for it aerodynamically. Seems to have a sloping bonet which I assume helps with airflow. I am no expert but what I think what it takes for a good aerodynamic car seems to point toward keeping things as sleek as possible.

[BDunnell]

There's an interesting question here, because surely the success of the Vectra shows that bigger models provide a better basis for a touring car?

[AndySpeed]

There's an interesting question here, because surely the success of the Vectra shows that bigger models provide a better basis for a touring car?

Surely it makes it much easier set-up wise, with more room to utilise.

[BDunnell]

Surely it makes it much easier set-up wise, with more room to utilise.

Yes, and it adds more in the way of stability to have a longer wheelbase and wider track. It's part of the reason why such cars as the Renault 19 and Mazda 323F were so uncompetitive in normal circumstances 15-odd years ago, and it must surely still hold true.

[SEATFreak]

There's an interesting question here, because surely the success of the Vectra shows that bigger models provide a better basis for a touring car?

My mind, when it thinks of all the top cars or most competitive cars in recent years, all conjour saloons as a pose to hatchbacks.

In the past we had cars which were heralded as successes like the Primera and the Cavalier. In more recent times we have the 320si, Astra Coupe and the Team Dynamics Integra. And I believe in the works MG ZS and the Toledo we were good but we never saw them run long enough, for their own individual reasons, to fully grow. I think with the works MG ZS we saw the closure of MG Rover and with the Toledo we suddenly saw SEAT decide to switch to the Leon. I always wonder how SEAT would be doing if they had kept the Toledo.

That is why I do agree that the basis for a very good touring car are bigger models.

[LiamM]

Surely it makes it much easier set-up wise, with more room to utilise.

True but the Leon should have better handling, with its go-kart style wheel in every corner

[Iain]

with the Toledo we suddenly saw SEAT decide to switch to the Leon. I always wonder how SEAT would be doing if they had kept the Toledo.


Marketing reasons. The Toledo was replaced in 2004 by the large MPV-style Toledo MK III, so they had to switch.

[VX_Rules]

And for marketing reasons they have switched to the Diesel. It seems poor judgement on SEATs behalf, not racing for the right reasons. At the end of the day it doesnt matter what specific car they want to get press, Its the brand that benefits.