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View Full Version : I guess it's ok for Renault to run mass damper now that they suck!



Tazio
17th April 2008, 16:50
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080417111341.shtml
The system, which uses sprung weights to counteract any vertical movement of the race car, was banned by the FIA mid-way through the 2006 season. However, Renault is reportedly expected to run a modified version of the system from the Spanish Grand Prix, which is within the rules.

N. Jones
17th April 2008, 17:07
They have to do something to try and keep Alonso at Renault!

Bagwan
17th April 2008, 17:09
"deemed to act as movable aerodynamic device – via the chassis itself."

So , that's the explanation , that the car becomes an "aerodynamic device" ?

That's pretty weak to start with , but , how has it been changed to legal , since the point is still to counteract the vertical movement of the car ?

What's going on here , Tazio ?

Tazio
17th April 2008, 17:13
"deemed to act as movable aerodynamic device via the chassis itself."

So , that's the explanation , that the car becomes an "aerodynamic device" ?

That's pretty weak to start with , but , how has it been changed to legal , since the point is still to counteract the vertical movement of the car ?

What's going on here , Tazio ?
I think the title says it all ;)
At least Renault seem to be able to keep a secret! :p :

Bagwan
17th April 2008, 17:27
I think the title says it all ;)
At least Renault seem to be able to keep a secret! :p :

They may not suck quite as badly with this little item .

Or , are they just trying to lure the others into a scandal , only to say we were just showing you drawings of McLaren's copy we found buried in one of those discs we didn't use last year?

philipbain
17th April 2008, 18:34
Lets face it, the original system was deemed legal by the FIA and then banned when Ferrari protested because they couldn't get it to work properly in their chassis, FIA after all does stand for Ferrari International Assistance.

airshifter
17th April 2008, 20:47
I never thought it should have been judged as illegal myself. Any type of suspenstion, damper, etc that affects the entire car could now be deemed illegal if you consider the entire car a movable aerodynamic device.

Tires are not solid, thus damping the car? Illegal.

Suspension? Illegal?

Drivers heads bouncing from G-forces? Illegal.


If it had affected only a wing, winglet, important aero part in the trays or such I could have understood the ruling. But it's something that dampens movement in the entire car, more like a suspension addition in my view.

Nikki Katz
17th April 2008, 21:01
I never understood the ban in the first place. It certainly wasn't as obviously trying to affect the aerodynamics as Ferrari's wheels, and those have the added bonus of being a bit more dangerous for the mechanics.

ioan
17th April 2008, 21:25
Lets face it, the original system was deemed legal by the FIA and then banned when Ferrari protested because they couldn't get it to work properly in their chassis, FIA after all does stand for Ferrari International Assistance.

:rolleyes:

It was McLaren who couldn't make it work and questioned it, not Ferrari. :\

Viktory
17th April 2008, 22:16
:rolleyes:

It was McLaren who couldn't make it work and questioned it, not Ferrari. :\

exactly.... but sometimes the truth isn't what people want to hear.

Hawkmoon
18th April 2008, 02:41
I never understood the ban in the first place. It certainly wasn't as obviously trying to affect the aerodynamics as Ferrari's wheels, and those have the added bonus of being a bit more dangerous for the mechanics.

The wheel covers on the Ferrari (and McLaren, Toyota, etc.) don't move.

It was still a stupid decision to ban the MDS because of it's aerodynamic effects. If the FIA didn't want the devices used they simply could have banned them. They have banned many things over the years, turbos for example, for numerous reasons.

wmcot
18th April 2008, 07:05
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080417111341.shtml
The system, which uses sprung weights to counteract any vertical movement of the race car, was banned by the FIA mid-way through the 2006 season. However, Renault is reportedly expected to run a modified version of the system from the Spanish Grand Prix, which is within the rules.

Perhaps now it is "legal" in order to keep Renault happy and in F1? There have been rumors of Renault leaving in the future and add this to SA and STR possibly leaving and you can see why it might be an incentive to keep the team around.

ioan
18th April 2008, 07:06
exactly.... but sometimes the truth isn't what people want to hear.

They know the truth, but they don't like it, so they imagine that it is the other way around, that's what McLaren fans do for a few seasons already, live in denial.

ioan
18th April 2008, 07:09
Perhaps now it is "legal" in order to keep Renault happy and in F1? There have been rumors of Renault leaving in the future and add this to SA and STR possibly leaving and you can see why it might be an incentive to keep the team around.

Already at the Malaysian GP the French commentators knew about this system and that it will be brought in for Spain.
They also said that it will bring as much as .4 seconds lap times improvement.
Another thing they said is that is different from the previous one and all the top teams use one, including RedBull and Toyota.
It isn't only allowed for Renault to have it.

ShiftingGears
18th April 2008, 08:26
They know the truth, but they don't like it, so they imagine that it is the other way around, that's what McLaren fans do for a few seasons already, live in denial.

Select fans of all teams do that, so stop pretending that its a characteristic of all the fans of one team you don't like.

ioan
18th April 2008, 09:23
Select fans of all teams do that, so stop pretending that its a characteristic of all the fans of one team you don't like.

Why? You felt concerned?! If you consider you aren't as described than you shouldn't feel offended.

ShiftingGears
18th April 2008, 09:41
Why? You felt concerned?! If you consider you aren't as described than you shouldn't feel offended.

Forgive me for not ignoring comments that I perceive as incorrect ;)

ioan
18th April 2008, 10:17
Forgive me for not ignoring comments that I perceive as incorrect ;)

I forgive you, I do the same! :D

SGWilko
18th April 2008, 10:31
live in denial.

as opposed to being in dethames!!!! :laugh:

samuratt
18th April 2008, 12:22
Already at the Malaysian GP the French commentators knew about this system and that it will be brought in for Spain.
They also said that it will bring as much as .4 seconds lap times improvement.
Another thing they said is that is different from the previous one and all the top teams use one, including RedBull and Toyota.
It isn't only allowed for Renault to have it.

That is true!!!

But, why then the FIA decided to ban Renault's back in 2006 and now everybody is entitled to have one? that is the question!!!

;)

18th April 2008, 12:47
That is true!!!

But, why then the FIA decided to ban Renault's back in 2006 and now everybody is entitled to have one? that is the question!!!

;)

Renault are not running a Mass-Damper, they are running a 'J' Damper. Mclaren, Ferrari, Red Bull & BMW-Sauber already run the system.

Mclaren were the first team to use one. The 'J' stands for 'Jounce', a mix of 'Jump' & 'Bounce'.

Tazio
18th April 2008, 12:55
Renault are not running a Mass-Damper, they are running a 'J' Damper. Mclaren, Ferrari, Red Bull & BMW-Sauber already run the system.

Mclaren were the first team to use one. The 'J' stands for 'Jounce', a mix of 'Jump' & 'Bounce'.Thanks for clearing that up Tamb'

SGWilko
18th April 2008, 13:00
Mmmm, could this not be construed in some loose way as a 'twin' chassis?

I mean, if the FIA thought the TMD was an aero device, despite it being tucked neatly away out of ANY airflow, they could effectively call the 'J Damper' a 'thribble' or a 'weeble' or a 'hanging basket display' and ban it instantly.... ;)

18th April 2008, 13:22
Mmmm, could this not be construed in some loose way as a 'twin' chassis?

I mean, if the FIA thought the TMD was an aero device, despite it being tucked neatly away out of ANY airflow, they could effectively call the 'J Damper' a 'thribble' or a 'weeble' or a 'hanging basket display' and ban it instantly.... ;)

Quite right, which is why the 'J' Damper itself is skirting the boundary of what is legal and what is not.

At the moment, it's legal.

Until the FIA decide otherwise.

wedge
18th April 2008, 15:09
Anyone know where I could more info on this contraption?




EDIT: just remembered the F1tech website!

Bagwan
18th April 2008, 17:14
From Crash.net :
"It has been reported that several parts destined for Renault's R28 challenger this season may be delayed – or not appear at all – due to the fall-out from last year's espionage scandal.

Spanish daily Diario AS claims that a suspension development planned for introduction during the course of the campaign may not see the light of day after Renault became embroiled in the spying row when it was revealed that a former McLaren design engineer had taken details of similar parts with him when he moved from Woking to Enstone.

The report says that Renault team chiefs decided to postpone the part's introduction until it had sought assurance that it did not contravene copyright rules from the sport's governing body, the FIA. The team has always stressed that the detail brought by Phil Mackereth was either outdated or incomplete, but has now decided to play safe and avoid repercussions similar to those inflicted on McLaren in 2007."

Is this that suspension component , or is it an aerodynamic one ?

ioan
18th April 2008, 19:38
Mmmm, could this not be construed in some loose way as a 'twin' chassis?

I mean, if the FIA thought the TMD was an aero device, despite it being tucked neatly away out of ANY airflow, they could effectively call the 'J Damper' a 'thribble' or a 'weeble' or a 'hanging basket display' and ban it instantly.... ;)

No, no, no! Given that it was first used by McLaren (who the first to contest the MDS in 2006) and not by Renault, it will stay legal! :p :

Tazio
19th April 2008, 02:15
From Crash.net :
"It has been reported that several parts destined for Renault's R28 challenger this season may be delayed or not appear at all due to the fall-out from last year's espionage scandal.

Spanish daily Diario AS claims that a suspension development planned for introduction during the course of the campaign may not see the light of day after Renault became embroiled in the spying row when it was revealed that a former McLaren design engineer had taken details of similar parts with him when he moved from Woking to Enstone.

The report says that Renault team chiefs decided to postpone the part's introduction until it had sought assurance that it did not contravene copyright rules from the sport's governing body, the FIA. The team has always stressed that the detail brought by Phil Mackereth was either outdated or incomplete, but has now decided to play safe and avoid repercussions similar to those inflicted on McLaren in 2007."

Is this that suspension component , or is it an aerodynamic one ?

Bag's I read that article, and I'm taking it with a grain of salt! I think they will run the J damper.
Obviously other teams are using it, and if they have McLaren's plans it will be easy enough to change
the design enough to prove it's not the same! ;) Problem solved!! :) :beer: :p : :rotflmao:

SGWilko
19th April 2008, 08:04
and if they have McLaren's plans it will be easy enough to change
the design enough to prove it's not the same! Problem solved!! :)

So, how does that work then, when S&Max stated, in respect of McLaren - 'if there is any element on the McLaren that is derived from Ferrari ideas.....'

If I were Renault, I'd wan't to play it safe. Perhaps if they ask Alonso to deploy his secret weopon......?

:)

Tazio
19th April 2008, 08:30
So, how does that work then, when S&Max stated, "Perhaps if they ask Alonso to deploy his secret weopon"......?
:) Did Max really say that about Fred? :p :

SGWilko
19th April 2008, 08:33
Did Max really say that about Fred? :p :

Oooohhhhh, you are awful....... ;)

Tazio
19th April 2008, 08:43
:rotflmao: