New Ferrari Nose

[wedge]

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2008/tes/f1-2008-tes-xp-2894.jpg

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/f1/2008/tes/f1-2008-tes-xp-2893.jpg

[Daniel]

Cheating! Cheating!

Well someone was going to say it at some point :)

[Allyc85]

lol Daniel.

Looks very different to what I expected but alot neater then most new ideas. Im guessing theres a slot below and te air flows up over the car to create more downforce?

[markabilly]

lol Daniel.

Looks very different to what I expected but alot neater then most new ideas. Im guessing theres a slot below and te air flows up over the car to create more downforce?
probably

Interesting how all the suspension pieces look more and more like some sort of aero devices, (as best i can tell), would that make them moveable......????................hummmmm

[wmcot]

From what I understand, there is an inlet between the wing and the underside of the nose that picks up high pressure air built up in that area and exhausts it on top of the nose adding downforce. I expect to see it copied shortly by many teams.

[millencolin]

Its very interesting to say the least... how long till everyone copies it though?

[GP-M3]

"Shortly" being relative. My guess is they waited until this test to have as much advantage of it as possible. The rumor was the inlet was up around the Bridgestone "B" at the very front, so I wonder how that got out there. Also, they were thinking of running it in Bahrain, but that would have given much more time for the other teams to perhap even have something for the Barcelona test. Now there will not be another test until May 14 at Paul Ricard, so they may be trying to make "shortly" as long as possible.


I expect to see it copied shortly by many teams.

[Hawkmoon]

It's interesting to see Ferrari's approach as compared to BMW's. Maranello has gone down a completely opposite path to Hinwil. The Bavarians came up with those stupid horns on the nose and the Reds have gone with a hole in the nose.

Assuming both are trying to do the same thing, ie. create downforce by conditioning the air flow around the nose of the car, then it will be intersting to see which has the greater effect.

I think Ferrari's idea has more potential simply because the 2009 aero regs have removed all of the little wings that adorn the cars these days. It also looks a damn-sight better!

[mstillhere]

Its very interesting to say the least... how long till everyone copies it though?

I don't think that any team can copy the idea that quickly. All the cars' designs are different and if not done carefully they might just end up with the opposite results. And since testing has been reduced quite a bit, I really don't see teams introducing this feature in their cars that fast. But in the future I am sure they will.

[AJP]

I think it looks great.

seeing that is right on top of the suspension, the air that is drawn out of that area would surely add a significant amount of downforce.. it will be interesting to see if this is for the slick tyre version of the car only, or if they will be using this new set up on the grooved tyres as well..

[ShiftingGears]

I think Ferrari's idea has more potential simply because the 2009 aero regs have removed all of the little wings that adorn the cars these days. It also looks a damn-sight better!

I agree. But I'd like to see BMW in the mix, and competitive.

[wmcot]

"Shortly" being relative. My guess is they waited until this test to have as much advantage of it as possible. The rumor was the inlet was up around the Bridgestone "B" at the very front, so I wonder how that got out there.

I wonder if the inlet is above the Bridgestone B on the lower wing? That would make more sense since the "B" is located toward the rear of the lower wing in the area where the air pressure between wing and nose underside is the greatest. Just my guess...

[Rollo]

From what I understand, there is an inlet between the wing and the underside of the nose that picks up high pressure air built up in that area and exhausts it on top of the nose adding downforce. I expect to see it copied shortly by many teams.

I expect that Lotus will copy it, perhaps in time for the 1969 season :D

http://1969gpl.speedgeezers.net/Images/cars/lotus49b.jpg

[ioan]

I expect that Lotus will copy it, perhaps in time for the 1969 season :D

http://1969gpl.speedgeezers.net/Images/cars/lotus49b.jpg

The ones on the Lotus were just cooling vents from the radiator. :p :

[OutRun]

The Ferrari has a relatively high nose compared to most teams besides Honda. It might be necessary to have a high nose to use Ferrari's concept.

This idea has been discussed long before Ferrari tried it. http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4589

[Powered by Cosworth]

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6949/1404081rx5be8.jpg

From Autosport I think

[CNR]

will they use the new nose this year or is it part of test for next years car

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12474_3424706,00.html


Felipe Massa set a phenomenal lap time on slick tyres at Barcelona on Monday, just over two and a half seconds up on his nearest rival.

With his Ferrari fitted with a radical new nose cone that has a hole on top of it and the Bridgestone slick tyres that the teams will use next season, Massa lapped the Spanish circuit in a time of 1:18.339.

[SGWilko]

will they use the new nose this year or is it part of test for next years car

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12474_3424706,00.html

Good question.... Is the structural integrity affected in any way due to the holes in the nose?

One assumes it has passed crash tests etc.

Not bashing, just asking.

[woody2goody]

Does this mean that there's air coming in where the driver's legs are or is it further forward than that?

[ioan]

Good question.... Is the structural integrity affected in any way due to the holes in the nose?

One assumes it has passed crash tests etc.

Not bashing, just asking.

For sure making holes in a structure will affect it's integrity. However it is quite easy to reclaim all the lost structural resistance.

I would say that they can use it without any security problems.

[woody2goody]

Maybe with taking a little bit of weight out with the holes, they can reinforce that area better with the weight they took out.

[Bagwan]

Look carefully at those 2 pics in the first post .

Are the slots in the 2 shots not exactly opposite ?
The first picture has the piece aligned as an intake , and the second has it the opposite way , aligned as they say , as an exhaust for under-nose pressure .

There's something screwy here .

[Bagwan]

I just noticed the pitot tube is backwards in the first picture .
What the heck is going on here ?

[Daniel]

Look carefully at those 2 pics in the first post .

Are the slots in the 2 shots not exactly opposite ?
The first picture has the piece aligned as an intake , and the second has it the opposite way , aligned as they say , as an exhaust for under-nose pressure .

There's something screwy here .
Nothing screwy :) Use the shell logo as your reference point and it all makes sense.

[Marshall]

The front wing is in the top right of the first picture, the cockpit is out of view past the bottom left if that helps.

[Bagwan]

Right , so , you can look down into the slots from both the front and back of the car ?
I don't think so .

Look again .


Ok , ok , false alarm .
Need another coffee , it seems .
Damn that looked screwy to me for a while there .

[Daniel]

Right , so , you can look down into the slots from both the front and back of the car ?
I don't think so .

Look again .
You need to focus on the shell logo as a reference point :) Do that and it will all make sense....

[Bagwan]

You need to focus on the shell logo as a reference point :) Do that and it will all make sense....

Thanks , I'm ok now .
A blend of Ethiopian Sidamo , Guatamalan , and Sumatran Arabica , fresh roasted yesterday has brought me around .

[Daniel]

Thanks , I'm ok now .
A blend of Ethiopian Sidamo , Guatamalan , and Sumatran Arabica , fresh roasted yesterday has brought me around .
No problems :) Must admit the first time I looked at it I thought the same so you're not alone in your confusion.

[Azumanga Davo]

What happened to the rule where suspension had to be symmetrical and non-aerodynamic? That looks way out of line if it was any other governing body ruling over it.

[wedge]

Interesting how all the suspension pieces look more and more like some sort of aero devices, (as best i can tell), would that make them moveable......????................hummmmm

It's been like that for nearly 12 years. Tyrrell were the first team to use aerofoil wishbones in 1996.

Now the wishbones are angled to do specific things. The lower wishbones are angled to manage undercar airflow and towards the barge boards; upper wishbones direct airflow over the car.


It's interesting to see Ferrari's approach as compared to BMW's. Maranello has gone down a completely opposite path to Hinwil. The Bavarians came up with those stupid horns on the nose and the Reds have gone with a hole in the nose.

Assuming both are trying to do the same thing, ie. create downforce by conditioning the air flow around the nose of the car, then it will be intersting to see which has the greater effect.

They do different things.

Ferrari's nose is to create downforce.

BMW's delta wings is there for aero efficiency, to tidy the airflow around the suspension wishbones and front wing. Most teams use aerofoils - as you can see on the Ferrari.

[Hawkmoon]

They do different things.

Ferrari's nose is to create downforce.

BMW's delta wings is there for aero efficiency, to tidy the airflow around the suspension wishbones and front wing. Most teams use aerofoils - as you can see on the Ferrari.

True, but it's interesting to see two completely divergent approaches to the same area of the car.

[ioan]

What happened to the rule where suspension had to be symmetrical and non-aerodynamic?

Who says there is no symmetry?!
Do you have a picture took from under the suspension? Or any lateral view of the airfoils that suggest any asymmetry.

[wedge]

True, but it's interesting to see two completely divergent approaches to the same area of the car.

Yep, BMW seem adamant that vertical aerofoils are better than horizontal ones.

[Azumanga Davo]

Who says there is no symmetry?!
Do you have a picture took from under the suspension? Or any lateral view of the airfoils that suggest any asymmetry.

Oh no, it's you...

Well, OK, it may all be good symmetry wise, but it's still aerodynamic...

[Daniel]

Oh no, it's you...

Well, OK, it may all be good symmetry wise, but it's still aerodynamic...

Thing is they can merely claim that the shape is give as little frontal area as possible. Now if they started using a normal asymetric style airfoil shaped suspension arm then it would be hard to deny that it's an aerodynamic device and they'd get pinged for it. If the arms are symetrical then they can just say that's the best shape for the arms to be as strong as possible with as little frontal area as possible.

At the end of the day every part of the car that has air flowing over it is aerodynamic.

[Azumanga Davo]

Thing is they can merely claim that the shape is give as little frontal area as possible. Now if they started using a normal asymetric style airfoil shaped suspension arm then it would be hard to deny that it's an aerodynamic device and they'd get pinged for it. If the arms are symetrical then they can just say that's the best shape for the arms to be as strong as possible with as little frontal area as possible.

At the end of the day every part of the car that has air flowing over it is aerodynamic.

Well, that's true as well. But I was very sure there had to be a specific shape that wasn't smooth.

[ioan]

And look who's being in the center of the attention again!

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/162078-0/ferrari_horrified_by_nose_leak_story.html

[Hawkmoon]

I think the rule about suspension parts is that they can't produce downforce, not that they can't be aerodynamic. The suspension parts on all the cars now have that flat almost wing-like profile.

[ioan]

I think the rule about suspension parts is that they can't produce downforce, not that they can't be aerodynamic. The suspension parts on all the cars now have that flat almost wing-like profile.

It's all about the color of the car! You should know this by now! ;)

[CNR]

Maybe with taking a little bit of weight out with the holes, they can reinforce that area better with the weight they took out.

from what i can find i think the nosecone are hollow.
so adding the air flow bit would make them stronger.

http://www.benarent.co.uk/bog/materials/made-materials-and-design-exchange/

http://www.benarent.co.uk/bog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/cimg3178.JPG

[GP-M3]

It's a strange picture, and at first glance it looks backwards. It appears the POV is from the front of the car, but it is actually from the sidepods facing forward, so the pitot tube is correctly facing forward. :)


I just noticed the pitot tube is backwards in the first picture .
What the heck is going on here ?

[GP-M3]

Have to quote myself here, as that was yesterday, and indeed, today Ferari are wondering how the rumor got out there also, so I must say - well done! :)

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080415095411.shtml



The rumor was the inlet was up around the Bridgestone "B" at the very front, so I wonder how that got out there.

[wmcot]

Looks very different to what I expected but alot neater then most new ideas. Im guessing theres a slot below and te air flows up over the car to create more downforce?

Maybe they'll divert a bit of the air to cool the driver's feet and reduce foot odor on the podium! :)

[wmcot]

I'm not sure that the crash.net headline of "Ferrari horrified by nose leak..." couldn't have been worded better? :)

(Sounds like a bad cold to me!)

[Big Ben]

And look who's being in the center of the attention again!

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/162078-0/ferrari_horrified_by_nose_leak_story.html

who?

[ArrowsFA1]

Lewis Hamilton in Bahrain (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66311): "I definitely don't like great white sharks, that's for sure."
Felipe Massa on Ferrari's new nose (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66668): "It looks like a shark: there's the mouth, there's everything, so I'd say it looks a lot like a shark."

Coincidence :confused: Perhaps not :p :

[Daniel]

Lewis Hamilton in Bahrain (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66311): "I definitely don't like great white sharks, that's for sure."
Felipe Massa on Ferrari's new nose (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66668): "It looks like a shark: there's the mouth, there's everything, so I'd say it looks a lot like a shark."

Coincidence :confused: Perhaps not :p :

Proof if any was needed that Ferrari are cheating and Max and the FIA are in league with them! :angryfire

[ArrowsFA1]

Proof if any was needed that Ferrari are cheating and Max and the FIA are in league with them! :angryfire
:confused: :crazy:

[Daniel]

:confused: :crazy:
:p Me too! :D

[Azumanga Davo]

I think the rule about suspension parts is that they can't produce downforce, not that they can't be aerodynamic. The suspension parts on all the cars now have that flat almost wing-like profile.

Ah, that's the one I had in mind, ta.

When I first saw the words 'nose leak', I thought to myself, "It's got bloody holes in it, of course it's going to." But I obviously knew that it wasn't that in the first place. ;)

[dc10]

what's the round 'screw' plate between holes and driver for, does anyone know?

[Daniel]

Access to dampers?

[ioan]

Lewis Hamilton in Bahrain (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66311): "I definitely don't like great white sharks, that's for sure."
Felipe Massa on Ferrari's new nose (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66668): "It looks like a shark: there's the mouth, there's everything, so I'd say it looks a lot like a shark."

Coincidence :confused: Perhaps not :p :

Felipe playing mind games with Hamilton, at such a "fearsome" level! :laugh: