BTCC Round 2 Discussion

[VX_Rules]

All the cars are beginning the first practice of the day.

[Neil Adams]

20 minutes into free practice one and it looks like neal, giovanardi and plato havent even ventured out onto the track - strange!

turner hasnt done a flying lap yet either

[BTCC2]

Does anyone know if Jason Hughes is is the Integra or whether he still has the MG?

[VX_Rules]

Im not sure what car he is in, hopefully not the MG. The results from that practive were very mixed, I didnt for see the Honda being quickest so far.

[MBailey06]

Hughes has only ust got his Integra, so he is racing the MG at Rockingham.

[SEATFreak]

Former team-mates 1st and 2nd at the end of First Practice.

Top 10:
Shedden
Neal
Plato
Turkington
Jackson
Giovanardi
Turner
Jelley
Chilton
Allison

Allison down in 10th with Vaulkhard 5 places further down with Taylor bringing up the rear. But atlest both Lacettis have done better when compared to the First Practice session back at Brands when Mat was 14th and Harry was 17th.

Jase 3rd. Is anyone prepared to say whether if it was a good showing from Jase'?

[MattL]

Definitely still the Integra for Hughes!

[Allyc85]

1. Gordon Shedden Team Halfords Honda Civic 1min 25.223secs
2. Matt Neal VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 25.388secs M
3. Jason Plato SEAT Sport UK SEAT Leon TDi 1min 25.435secs M
4. Colin Turkington Team RAC BMW 320si 1min 25.495secsI
5. Mat Jackson BMW Dealer Team UK BMW 320si 1min 25.503secs I
6. Fabrizio Giovanardi VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 25.535secs M
7. Darren Turner SEAT Sport UK SEAT Leon TDi 1min 25.547secs M
8. Stephen Jelley Team RAC BMW 320si 1min 25.752secs I
9. Tom Chilton Team Halfords Honda Civic 1min 25.923secs
10. Matt Allison Robertshaw Racing Chevrolet Lacetti 1min 26.064secs I

11. Tom Onslow-Cole VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 26.155secs M
12. Andrew Jordan John Guest Racing Honda Integra 1min 26.175secs I B
13. Adam Jones Team Aircool SEAT Leon 1min 26.246secs I
14. Mike Jordan John Guest Racing Honda Integra 1min 26.268secs I B
15. Harry Vaulkhard Robertshaw Racing Chevrolet Lacetti 1min 26.361secs I
16. Rob Collard Motorbase Performance BMW 320si 1min 26.466secs I
17. Steven Kane Motorbase Performance BMW 320si 1min 26.678secs I
18. Jason Hughes Kartworld Racing MG ZS 1min 27.139secs I B
19. John George TH Motorsport Racing with JAG Honda Integra 1min 27.194secs I B
20. Martyn Bell Arkas Racing with Sunshine.co.uk Vauxhall Astra 1min 28.577secs I B

21. Michael Doyle InTune Racing Honda Civic Type-R 1min 28.579secs I B
22. Erkut Kizilirmak Arkas Racing with Sunshine.co.uk Vauxhall Astra 1min 28.946secs I B
23. Chris Stockton BTC Racing Lexus IS200 1min 29.441secs I
24. Stuart Oliver BTC Racing Lexus IS200 1min 29.498secs I
25. Alan Taylor Robertshaw Racing Honda Integra 1min No time I B

[SEATFreak]

Free Practice 2 about to start.

[SEATFreak]

Dunno how fast the TDi's are really going but so far so good for SEAT. 1st and 3rd for Jase and DT with Turks in the middle.

[Alfa Fan]

Definitely still the Integra for Hughes!

MG you mean?!

[SEATFreak]

Just got back after lunch so I don't know how long Free Practice 2 has finished but the top 10 is

Jason Plato SEAT Leon TDi 1:24.712
Colin Turkington Team RAC 1:24.764
Darren Turner SEAT Leon TDi 1:24.785
Tom Onslow Cole Vauxhall Vectra 1:24.947
Matt Neal Vauxhall Vectra 1:24.967
Tom Chilton Honda Civic 1:25.110
Stephen Kane BMW 320si 1:25.144
Gordon Shedden Honda Civic 1:25.167
Mat Jackson BMW 320si 1:25.171
Mike Jordan Honda Integra 1:25.388

[VX_Rules]

Where did Gio end up? Jackson not showing great pace either...

[SEATFreak]

12th with a time of 1:25.712

[VX_Rules]

Hmmm, ok, Well. Its Qualli that counts, in an hour and 20mins time...

[AndySpeed]

Maybe the extra 45 kg is affecting Giovanardi, whilst the Seat's are being helped by their better top speed along the start straight and through turn one.

[Allyc85]

1. Jason Plato SEAT Sport UK SEAT Leon TDi 1min 24.712secs M
2. Colin Turkington Team RAC BMW 320si 1min 24.764secsI
3. Darren Turner SEAT Sport UK SEAT Leon TDi 1min 24.785secs M
4. Tom Onslow-Cole VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 24.947secs M
5. Matt Neal VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 24.967secs M
6. Tom Chilton Team Halfords Honda Civic 1min 25.110secs
7. Steven Kane Motorbase Performance BMW 320si 1min 25.144secs I
8. Gordon Shedden Team Halfords Honda Civic 1min 25.167secs
9. Mat Jackson BMW Dealer Team UK BMW 320si 1min 25.171secs I
10. Mike Jordan John Guest Racing Honda Integra 1min 25.388secs I B

11. Stephen Jelley Team RAC BMW 320si 1min 25.583secs I
12. Fabrizio Giovanardi VX Racing Vauxhall Vectra 1min 25.712secs M
13. Matt Allison Robertshaw Racing Chevrolet Lacetti 1min 25.926secs I
14. Andrew Jordan John Guest Racing Honda Integra 1min 25.963secs I B
15. Harry Vaulkhard Robertshaw Racing Chevrolet Lacetti 1min 26.267secs I
16. Adam Jones Team Aircool SEAT Leon 1min 26.350secs I
17. Jason Hughes Kartworld Racing MG ZS 1min 26.479secs I B
18. Rob Collard Motorbase Performance BMW 320si 1min 26.642secs I
19. John George TH Motorsport Racing with JAG Honda Integra 1min 26.779secs I B
20. Erkut Kizilirmak Arkas Racing with Sunshine.co.uk Vauxhall Astra 1min 27.181secs I B

21. Chris Stockton BTC Racing Lexus IS200 1min 27.219secs I
22. Alan Taylor Robertshaw Racing Honda Integra 1min 28.218secs I B
23. Michael Doyle InTune Racing Honda Civic Type-R 1min 28.707secs I B
24. Stuart Oliver BTC Racing Lexus IS200 1min 29.684secs I
25. Martyn Bell Arkas Racing with Sunshine.co.uk Vauxhall Astra 1min 34.377secs I B

[MattL]

MG you mean?!

Sorry, I knew what I meant! MG...

[MattL]

Nice dump of rain just came down during Clio qualifying, so it's likely to be a drying track for BTCC qualifying!

[VX_Rules]

Bell has a shocker...

[VkmSpouge]

The rain could well help to jumble the grid order. I can't help but feel the SEATs still haven't shown their full hand.

[Mp3 Astra]

Everyone is so suspicious of SEAT, but I honestly think they're currently at their maximum pace. The engine is definately faster but they are still sorting out the handling of the car. I can't remember if rain is good or bad for SEAT...

And now the track is drying - this is set to be pretty exciting!

[VX_Rules]

It's going to be like Brands Qualli, Getting alot quicker.
In terms of the SEATS handling, its more front heavy this year, because of the heavier engine, and heavier front axle, but if this helps in the wet we will have to see.

[Mp3 Astra]

Oh wow - Plato sets a lap 1.8 seconds faster than anyone...

Collard fails ride height examination.

And Hughes goes second by 0.2!!! The track is getting so much faster.

[AndySpeed]

I know that qualifying is significant, but is it really worth commenting yet when the lap times are in the 1 minute 29s? They are all going to go faster later, as the practice times were in the 1:24s. So just wait and see a little longer...

[VX_Rules]

Haha, it must be getting dryer if Hughes goes second LMAO.

[VX_Rules]

Interesting that the petrol Leon's quicker than the Diesel's so far.

[Mp3 Astra]

I know that qualifying is significant, but is it really worth commenting yet when the lap times are in the 1 minute 29s? They are all going to go faster later, as the practice times were in the 1:24s. So just wait and see a little longer...

Yeah, I'm getting a little over excited I guess. But still, it's fun to watch!

Kane has lost all his laps because he "failed to start on the flat patch". What does that mean?

[VX_Rules]

Im surprised by the Honda's pace.

[Mp3 Astra]

So Plato and Turner are shown as doing great times, but they are remaining in 4th and 5th where they should be first and third.

[VkmSpouge]

Interesting qualifying. Gordon Shedden put in a great lap to secure pole position from his ex-team mate. Adam Jones doing excellently (especially since he has never raced at Rockingham in a touring car) out qualifying the works SEATs. Shame both Darren Turner and Steven Kane lost their times from early on in the session, Kane had been right up there but still put in a decent time right at the end. Martyn Bell had a good session out qualifying his team mate, Erkut Kizilirmak. Not very good qualifying by Fabrizio Giovanardi (though he does have ballast) and Rob Collard. Why didn't Chris Stockton and Michael Doyle set a time in the session, would I be right in assuming that the words "car problems" may accurately describe it?

Qualifying Times
1. Gordon Shedden Honda 1:24.327
2. Matt Neal Vauxhall +0.227
3. Adam Jones SEAT +0.327
4. Darren Turner SEAT +0.335
5. Jason Plato SEAT +0.433
6. Tom Onslow-Cole Vauxhall +0.443
7. Colin Turkington BMW +0.477
8. Tom Chilton Honda +0.542
9. Mat Jackson BMW +0.654
10. Fabrizio Giovanardi Vauxhall +0.692
11. Steven Kane BMW +0.764
12. Mike Jordan Honda +0.777
13. Stephen Jelley BMW +1.078
14. Matt Allison Chevrolet +1.114
15. Andrew Jordan Honda +1.405
16. Rob Collard BMW +1.845
17. Harry Vaulkhard Chevrolet +2.132
18. John George Honda +2.158
19. Jason Hughes MG +2.321
20. Martyn Bell Vauxhall +2.884
21. Erkut Kizilirmak Vauxhall +3.269
22. Alan Taylor Honda +3.500
23. Stuart Oliver Lexus +5.050
24. Michael Doyle Honda No Time
25. Chris Stockton Lexus No Time

[VX_Rules]

Ballast must be quite affecting Gio and Jackson.

[Neil Adams]

Kane has lost all his laps because he "failed to start on the flat patch". What does that mean?

theres a rule that says the car must restart under their own power after being stopped for the random weight and ride height checks, if it wasnt flat they could use the downhill gradient to bump start the car, i dont understand why the penalise them for this though?


So Plato and Turner are shown as doing great times, but they are remaining in 4th and 5th where they should be first and third.

the route into the pits is quicker than staying on the actual track, i think this is because the pit apron is so wide at rockingham that the normal pit lane speed limits maybe dont apply, also coming into the pits is a straight line route rather than a chicane.


Adam Jones doing excellently (especially since he has never raced at Rockingham in a touring car)

he did free prace 1 and 2 last year and was very quick in the toledo, so he does at least have some prior experience of the track in a touring car, still very impressive considering his lack of time in the car, also the time hes done in the leon is a quicker time than plato or turner achieved in 07, (plato had ballast but turner didnt)

Should be an interesting race, will be good to see if gio and jackson can move up the grid, and if jones can hold on to that position

Was interesting to see that turners car failed the rear ride height, usually they're set up low at the front and higher at the back, the extra weight of the diesel unit must mean they're running the car flatter to prevent understeer.

[tyreman2]

Don't know if it 's common knowledge but Gr Asia had to change Adam's engine between P2 and Qualifying A great effort from everybody in the team
and Adam was brilliant considering that he did little running in P2 coz of the engine problem.

[nicemms]

Excellent news for Team Air Cool and Adam Jones! Really hope he can do well in race 1.

[SEATFreak]

Excellent news for Team Air Cool and Adam Jones! Really hope he can do well in race 1.

Yeah. Three of the top five are all Leons. Plus I really have high hopes now that the team and Adam will do well tomorrow and start being a force in that are of the field. The kind to take on the ilk of Mike Jordan, Rob Collard and Harry Vaulkhard. Despite the factory team changing to diesel I still think the petrol Leons were decent Leons. Even in Independent hands.

[bt52b]

Nice of Flash to dedicate the Pole to David Leslie.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66598

[AndySpeed]

I think that all things considered the works Seats have qualified pretty well. I heard Plato mention something about the Diesel engine requiring longer to cool down before the weigh bridge allowing them less time to put in laps. That said Plato still managed 15 laps to Shedden's 16.

Weather forecast for tomorrow isn't too dissimilar to today, with showers forecast. I'll be taking my rain mac and umbrella then.

[ready2rock]

theres a rule that says the car must restart under their own power after being stopped for the random weight and ride height checks, if it wasnt flat they could use the downhill gradient to bump start the car, i dont understand why the penalise them for this though?



If the car failed to start on track it is a safety hazard, hence the team must fix it as the car is unsafe therefore illegal.

[VkmSpouge]

Weather forecast for tomorrow isn't too dissimilar to today, with showers forecast. I'll be taking my rain mac and umbrella then.

Hope it rains for at least one race, a bit water on the track always makes for good fun.

[SEATFreak]

I think that all things considered the works Seats have qualified pretty well.

Very well I thought. It gives me hope that atleast the Leon can achieve consistency in one or two areas this season. Like qualifying. They may not turn out to be the all conquering team the news of the switch to TDi had made me fee they were going to become, but Jase' and DT at a type of track in Brands Hatch that the Diesels are supposed to do badly at, qualified similarly. Jase qualified 4th and DT qualified 6th. For today Jase qualified 5th and DT qualified 4th.

[VkmSpouge]

I felt the first two races today were a little dull but the third race more than made up for it.
Adam Jones had a very good weekend with two 4ths and a 3rd. Darren Turner also did very until he went off in race three. Gordon Shedden looked peerless in race one likewise Matt Neal in race three who mastered the torrential rainfall. Giovanardi made an uncharacteristic mistake in race two to let Mat Jackson through for the win. Tom Chilton also blew the race three lead but still got a good second place.
Michael Doyle could have got tenth place in race three had he not gone off after the safety car period, a real shame. However well done to Erkut Kizilirmak for getting a point on the board. Rob Collard also used his experience well to get 8th place. Also well done to Stuart Oliver for getting BTC's first finish this year.

[SEATFreak]

I felt the first two races today were a little dull but the third race more than made up for it.

I think we are all agreed on that one.

The Jackson vs Turkington vs Shedden vs Jones scrap was the highlight for me in a race that had conditions that reflected my mood regarding the SEAT's. I think I doubt we will see a more harder fought scrap this season. Though Jase came on strongly in the final lap to snatch what was probably an unlikely 6th from way down in and around 13th for most of the race.

One is really starting to wonder what SEAT must do to get the winning formula. Every season the team does something different to topple VXR and every season VXR out score and out perform SEAT. I hope if you look at the fact after only 6 races into the new season and VXR already have three figures in their points tally and the difference between them and third placed Team Dynamics you really feel with me on this one.

It is over now. No use worrying. Congrats also must go to Rob Collard who with Erkut got his first points.

[BDunnell]

The main thing that comes across from today is how hard it's going to be for the likes of the Jordans' Integras and the Motorbase BMWs (and Stephen Jelley at the moment) to score big points this year regularly, or even to get into the points without benefiting from the reverse grid in races of low attrition. The front-running teams are that much stronger.

[Andrewmcm]

Sitting in the grandstand today, I must say I was very impressed with the nerve of the drivers to go door-handle to door-handle in the pouring rain on Turn 1 of the oval at high speed in Race 3. Great driving all round!

[Powered by Cosworth]

Sitting in the grandstand today, I must say I was very impressed with the nerve of the drivers to go door-handle to door-handle in the pouring rain on Turn 1 of the oval at high speed in Race 3. Great driving all round!

Amen brother, especially after that stupid grandstand evacuation due to some burnt toast or somebody bumping into an alarm :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

Sitting in the grandstand today, I must say I was very impressed with the nerve of the drivers to go door-handle to door-handle in the pouring rain on Turn 1 of the oval at high speed in Race 3. Great driving all round!

Yes, that looked fantastic - and all without unnecessary contact, too.

[Delenn]

Sitting in the grandstand today, I must say I was very impressed with the nerve of the drivers to go door-handle to door-handle in the pouring rain on Turn 1 of the oval at high speed in Race 3. Great driving all round!

Yes, I was in the turn 1 grandstand too. I turned to my other half and just said "Nascar drivers are just bloody wimps!!!".

It was my first visit to Rockingham, and I have to say I was pretty impressed. Where I was sitting, you had a great view, could hear Titch, and a free seat. My only criticism was that there were ticket touts in the car park, who they needed to get rid of. Otherwise, a good day (even with the rain).

[Larsen]

I thought it was a good day today. Glad i did go home during the last Clios race, judging by what the weather looked like on the tele!

Here's my photos from today

http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/nn194/ChristianLarsen280385/Touring%20Cars/BTCC%20April%202008%20Rockingham/

[Andrewmcm]

Yes, I was in the turn 1 grandstand too. I turned to my other half and just said "Nascar drivers are just bloody wimps!!!".

It was my first visit to Rockingham, and I have to say I was pretty impressed. Where I was sitting, you had a great view, could hear Titch, and a free seat. My only criticism was that there were ticket touts in the car park, who they needed to get rid of. Otherwise, a good day (even with the rain).

Yeah the NASCAR boys (if they were to race at RMS) would probably be doing 170mph+ average on the oval so I can understand why they don't race in the wet!. The trackside radio was pretty good, and the airshow was rather amazing. The grandstand evacuation was most annoying, as I went over to the paddock to gawp at the ITV lot and missed the big crash at the start of the Clio race - what happened there?

I was very impressed with the Rock - last time I was there was in 2002 for the Champcar race and its facilities have maintained a high standard over the years. I'll definitely be going back there in the future for Touring Cars and I hope they can attract the Indycar or NASCAR Trucks/Nationwide Series over in the coming years.

[VX_Rules]

The rock is an awesome facility, the fire alarm was quite funny, as no one moved, and only once it stopped we had to leave!! Got back up in time to see the massive Clio shunt tho! :P

As the the racing, Race two was boring, but 1 was interesting, except the middle stint, and race 3 was just awesome, especially Neal coming from 11th to win.

When all the cars dived into the pit, and the three Vauxhalls stayed on the grid, i thought they had ballsed up big time on that decision! luckyily there was a race restart.

It was good to see Plato get a penalty for once, as normally he always seems to escape them, :/

As for the leader board, I do really think it's changed to a Bmw dealer team/TD/VXR challenge, and Seat and RAC on their own together. For now at least.
Seat's, or at leasts Plato's, run of good luck may be running dry...

[Mp3 Astra]

Wow. Just wow. Race 3 was one of the best I've seen in a very long time. It was a shame that the start was such a shambles - the officials were too indecisive, I think, and should have declared a wet race before everyone started on the green flag lap. First time I've seen BTCC in a thunderstorm as well!

The races were okay I thought - although race 1 wasn't great but I think race 2 was pretty good (although I haven't seen them on TV yet).

If Jackson hadn't retired, he'd be leading the championship by miles. As it is, he isn't. But he looks like the man to beat at the moment.

[AndyRAC]

Turkington was a little unlucky – he had a 4.5 lead then the Safety car came out – lead lost and a sitting duck. Went from 2nd – 7th on the last lap. And Vauxhall benefit, NOOOOOOO!!!!

[SEATFreak]

Seat's, or at leasts Plato's, run of good luck may be running dry...

Never a truer word has been spoken.

Same old. Same old. You would think as a SEAT fan I would have gotten used to it by now. I must be stupid, naive or both.

I think something BIG needs to happen come the end of the season at SEATSport UK to turn around the teams fortunes and make them every bit as strong as VXR is. I don't want so see them to be constantly lagging behind VXR despite the numerous changes that is made before every season.

Perhaps get in help from ORECA. Jordi Gene's engineer was apparently at Rockingham. The ITV1 commentator said. Or even go back to petrol. It has too many weaknesses for me. The TDi has not turned out as expected. I was cock-a-hoop when it was announced. This SEAT fan had visions of us storming it and finally beating VXR in most areas. But is really only strong on long straights. It seems to suffer in most situations.

Another year waiting for success looks in store.

[AndyRAC]

You can't expect the Diesel to be winning from the word go. I think they could do with more help from the WTCC team, but give them time, I'm sure they will be able to fight for wins regularly. The WTCC have dominated the last 2 rounds both on twisty circuits.

[tintin]

Wow. Just wow. Race 3 was one of the best I've seen in a very long time. It was a shame that the start was such a shambles - the officials were too indecisive, I think, and should have declared a wet race before everyone started on the green flag lap. First time I've seen BTCC in a thunderstorm as well!


There was a thunderstorm at Rockingham in 2003 during the final race of the day too.

...And when the race was due to start it certainly wasn't wet enough to be declared a wet race. The track was still dry in most places because the rain was evaporating as soon as it hit the ground.

[Mp3 Astra]

There was a thunderstorm at Rockingham in 2003 during the final race of the day too.

...And when the race was due to start it certainly wasn't wet enough to be declared a wet race. The track was still dry in most places because the rain was evaporating as soon as it hit the ground.

It was pretty clear that the rain wasn't going to stop though - there were dark clouds all around and you could see the rain in the distance. It should have been obvious.

[VXRDartford]

If Seat actually did some testing on the BTCC circuits (before the season) and got some data of their own instead of relying on the WTCC teams data they might be a better. I would expect next season will be when the TDI shows how good it is as they will have all the data they need. (I know my tag suggests different but I am a Seat / Plato fan)

[Winchester]

It was a shame that the start was such a shambles - the officials were too indecisive

I'd disagree, it was a matter of minutes between the track being bone dry and soaking wet.
Although it would have been entertaining, it would have been very dangerous and the officials made the correct decision at the correct time. Anyone on slicks heading into the banking wouldn't have stood a chance.

[johngeorge]

Surley it is up to the team to make the choice of slicks or wets , if you get it wrong you pit and change tyres , you dont just change the rules and say no lets start again and give everyone the chance to throw wets on .

[RED VXR]

Could not agree more with johngeorge. Personaly I think the bigger teams had a hand in the decision to delay the race, a question that i would like answered by Mr Gow

[jackmarsh]

Watching in the gradnstand, before the green flag lap, John George and Harry Vaulkhard changed to wets, this I thought was a risky decision, then it bucketed it down. The green flag lap took place, and 8 or 9 cars came in to the pits to change to wets. At that point they should in my opinion have started the race. I can understand the health and safety side of things, but it did scupper a few drivers plans who were thinking ahead and had made risky decisions that proved correct ones. In my opinion it was a decision to let everyone have wets on, that would provide good tv, as well as health and safety. I guess also it takes a rather long time to get the wheels changed on a super 2000 car compared to a BTC spec car.

The decision mainly impacted on JG and HV, had the race started when it should have done, we would have arguably had a better tv spectacle, nethertheless it was a great race, but you have to feel a little peeved if you are John or Harry who would have had a great chance and took all the risks.

[VkmSpouge]

At the time I supported the decision to abort the start but now, I can't help but think it was the wrong decision. Surely all the drivers not in the pitlane were on wet tyres and everyone in the pitlane was changing their dries to wets, so I don't see how it would have been dangerous to have continued with the original start.

[Mp3 Astra]

I've just read in the official BTCC forum, from someone using a radio scanner, that the start was aborted because Tom Onslow-Cole's car was parked at a crazy angle on the grid. It had stopped in the wrong place, and was reversing into position when a marshal apparently stepped in and made TOC turn his steering wheel and become misalligned and pointing at about 30 degrees. From where I was it was at a pretty hefty angle.

[m0rk]

I've just read in the official BTCC forum, from someone using a radio scanner, that the start was aborted because Tom Onslow-Cole's car was parked at a crazy angle on the grid. It had stopped in the wrong place, and was reversing into position when a marshal apparently stepped in and made TOC turn his steering wheel and become misalligned and pointing at about 30 degrees. From where I was it was at a pretty hefty angle.

Lucky they didn't make him drive thru, or restart from the pitlane for that.

[bt52b]

Last year in V8SC at Oran Park the start of the third race was one of the strangest I've ever seen. Half the grid in the pits because of rain, and an almost empty looking grid took the start. Was a great race.

[VX_Rules]

The OC cant really be blamed, he had no reference in front of him anymore as most cars were pitted, then the marshall b*llocked up getting him back to his spot.

[m0rk]

The OC cant really be blamed, he had no reference in front of him anymore as most cars were pitted, then the marshall b*llocked up getting him back to his spot.

it's the drivers responsibility though..... they have markings, and normally they'll have picked a reference point from when they form up on the grid

[SEATFreak]

Could not agree more with johngeorge. Personaly I think the bigger teams had a hand in the decision to delay the race, a question that i would like answered by Mr Gow

Like who? SEAT?! Like theirs anything that would have improved SEAT's chances! Like theirs anything they could have done to get an advantage that they would not have totaly cocked-up!

If theirs any team in a position right now that needs to play the rules it is either TD, Team RAC or VXR. Because it certainly looks like theirs certainly little that can aid SEAT right now.

[Iain]

As someone said to you on SCN, SEATFreak, you're supposed to get behind your team, not write them off when they don't do so well. If you're that much of a superfan anyway.

[VX_Rules]

It had started to poor down and his "reference point" was in the pit!! Give the lad a chance, everyones human at the end of the day.

[SEATFreak]

I understand where your point of view is coming from Iain. To others my comments may look like I am giving up but from my vantage point, it demoaralises me a lot when I look out and find it hard to see a whole lot of more tangible positives than underlying ones like Sector times which look very good.

For instance at Brands Hatch, Jase and DT were in the top 5 for the best Sector 2 times in every sesssion (Free Practice 1, Free Practice 2, Qualifying and races 1, 2 & 3) and at Rockingham in both Sectors 2 & 3 of Free Practice 2 and in Sector 3 in Round 4 they were in the top 2.

But I find it hard to see where their is the correlation between fast sector laps and the kind of strong and consistent performances during races that wins trophies.

I am very demoralised and very dejected at the moment at how SEAT did at The Rock. Too much perhaps to see where the little underlying positives will finally ammount over time to one big positive. Maybe once SEAT gets a win this season I will be a little more settled. Mind, this time waiting for something good to happen is maybe worth it to see the look on the faces of messers Harrison, Neal snr. and Bennetts when Scott does beat them. :up:

[VX_Rules]

Change to VAUXHALLfreak, you know it makes sense.

[SEATFreak]

Change to VAUXHALLfreak, you know it makes sense.

I am desperate....just not that desperate. :)

[VX_Rules]

Its ok, Winners dont associate with losers :P :P

[KILOHMUNNS]

SEATFREAK, you really can't be serious ! :D

How can you be dismayed at Seat's performance? were you watching a different race event as I'm sure that I saw JP come back from the back of the pack to score points twice!. And DT got a second. How can this be too disappointing, surely this shows that the car can perform as can the drivers but this weekend wasn't to be.

[240PS]

Seatfreak keep the faith DT had 2 podiums Jp had a 30 sec pen and still came back and in my mine had a great drive and scored points. lets not forget Adam Jones.So not long before we see all three on podium together.
WHY was there no pen for Neal in race two from were I was sitting it looked like he had half a cars start on the others this was even picked up by Tim H on ITV highlights.

[SEATFreak]

Seatfreak keep the faith DT had 2 podiums Jp had a 30 sec pen and still came back and in my mine had a great drive and scored points.

I am trying to keep the faith and be all positive; but it is hard for me. I, for whatever reason don't seem as capable of becoming axcited about the little goals that are accomplished which over time make a difference as the big achievements.

Undeniably the fact is SEAT have been among the fastest times in most ocassions in both Free Practice, Qualifying and the races and DT set the third fastest time back at Brands and DT was racing alongside the best drivers of the day for me at Rokingham.

So how come I cannot not see that as much as you guys do?

It could be because I tend to think very plainly and simply about motorsoort. Winning races = winning silverware. I find it hard to equate consistently setting top 3 times for a sector at a circuit during Free Practice with winning races.

Only I can change my mindset. And that will take a bit more time.