I never realized the hate of Indycar from F1 back when i was growing up

[xtlm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxuDr8uWDlk

vicious

[V12]

Don't confuse Bernie Ecclestone with a man who passionately believes in what he's saying, rather than saying something just to suit his position.

Almost all the things that made F1 great back then (1993 was my second full year of watching the sport) have gradually been eroded, and Bernie is at least half responsible (together with Max) for much of that.

F1 now has a safety car, contrived rules to improve the "show" etc. Thats two of the things he criticised IndyCar for in 1993 - I rest my case.

Basically - the guy was ***** that Mansell high-tailed it to a different form of racing the previous winter, and took offence to it as F1 was considered the be all and end all of his little universe. Kind of like a girl who thinks she's gorgeous getting knocked back by a guy in favour of someone she considers average-looking.

1993 was the first year many Europeans such as myself were introduced to the world of IndyCar racing - basically because of Mansell. And much of the noise that I remembered was positive, maybe if it wasn't considered the "pinnacle", it was thought of as a great and different alternative, a breath of fresh air if you will. Bernie spoke (and speaks) for Bernie and Bernie alone.

[veeten]

and, in some ways, there is a bit of fear in what could be reborn in the new version of IndyCar.

This is why 2010 will be the pivotal year, depending on what the sporting & technical rules for IndyCar call for, as it could provide, yet again, an alternative for those tired of the rigamarole that is F1. Teams, drivers, manufacturers, and sponsors could find something a bit more exciting in every way possible; the very same thing that Mansell left for, that Senna bargained with, and Ferrari used as leverage against the FIA.

Here we go, again... and ain't we glad! :D

[nigelred5]

What a crock. Nigel was Unhappy? funny, I remember him being quite happy in '93. Bernie Hoped Nigel wasn't happy. Indycar was legitimate threat to F1 at that time, so Bernie had to badmouth Indycar in every wat and at every opportunity he could. That would have continued to be the case had ......... oh never mind.

[jimispeed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jjZkTqk3Os


And to think that Robert Doornbos almost matched and beat his rookie record!!

Come on over to Indycar Robert!!!!!!

[xtlm]

Where is he and minardi team usa?

[Vegasguy]

Think Mansell was beat? ;-)

[BobGarage]

Where is he and minardi team usa?

minardi team usa are here.... just rebadged as HVM.

[MAX_THRUST]

If Indy CAr gets it European TV coverage sorted out, we could see a return to Bernies little digs at the US series, as Indy Cars becomes more popular.

I generally think there is huge possibilities for growth now the split is done, shame its taken so long but we are here now, lets enjoy....aere it goes next. The 500 this year will mean more than it has for the last 12 years.

[Jag_Warrior]

Thank you, xtlm, for posting that. I hadn't seen that interview before. It was apparent back in the day that Bernie felt threatened by CART. But I didn't realize that they'd gotten so deeply under his skin that he was willing to lay 5 million pounds on the line to prove the value of his series vs. CART IndyCar World Series. That says a lot about the state of the racing world back then.

Now, Bernie might be keeping an eye on NASCAR's growth and reach. But he has nothing to fear from AOWR. A larger (subsidized) AOWR field is probably not what Bernie and his backers need to fear.

[philipbain]

I remember the whole incident and Bernie's bitterness that Mansell had defected to Indycar well. I think it's mostly rooted in the fact that for '93 Bernie had arranged 2 GPs in the UK to capitalise on Mansell's '92 title win, only for Nigel for leave F1 and crowds at both Donnigton and Silverstone fell well below expectations. At the same time F1 was being heavilly criticised for letting technology take over and diminish the input from the driver, whereas Indycar was seen as the ultimate driver's formula, with the rules ensuring that the cars were more or less equal, without driver aids that were endemic in F1 at the time and the variety of tracks provided a unique challenge. In the face of all this Bernie went on the defensive, slagging off Indycar comparing it with wrestling in terms of sporting merit, it made him sound frankly intollerant and bitter (which is pretty much what he was). Indycar's response was just pure class, they said that Bernie had a right to his own opinion but Indycar was doing very well as it was thank you very much! This made Bernie look a complete arse to be quite honest, not his finest hour for sure.

[wedge]

Don't forget Senna was close to quitting F1 and tested for Penske around that time.

Max and Bernie had a habit of destroying racing series regarded as a threat to F1. No different to NASCAR/ISC trying to ruin IRL.

[Marbles]

Max and Bernie had a habit of destroying racing series regarded as a threat to F1. No different to NASCAR/ISC trying to ruin IRL.

Or F1\IRL ruining CART. ;)

[veeten]

Max and Bernie had a habit of destroying racing series regarded as a threat to F1. No different to NASCAR/ISC trying to ruin IRL.
... that you don't have an all-encompassing, quasi-governmental 'umbrella' organisation, working in collusion with a particular individual or group, trying to make them the 'be all, end all' form of motorsport.

How would most of us feel if the AAA had decided not to get out of sanctioning motorsport in '55, even after the tragic events of Le Mans and Indy, and became that of which we see presently in the FIA. A similar collusion, of that between the Hulman-George family, Agajanian, and the AAA would've done the same things to maintain premiere status in the US, rather than letting the public decide with their eyes and wallets.

[BenRoethig]

minardi team usa are here.... just rebadged as HVM.

Wouldn't be re-rebadged since they were HVM before the 2007 season.

[Jag_Warrior]

No different to NASCAR/ISC trying to ruin IRL.

Uh, when did that happen?

[BenRoethig]

Uh, when did that happen?

They didn't have to. All they had to do was sit and watch the egos of George and Forsythe tear the once great open wheel ranks apart to reap the benefits.

[Jag_Warrior]

They didn't have to. All they had to do was sit and watch the egos of George and Forsythe tear the once great open wheel ranks apart to reap the benefits.

Oh, I agree with that. But that's passive - just watching a bunch of clueless wonders destroy each other. He seemed to be suggesting that NASCAR/ISC took an active role in "trying to ruin the IRL". If anything, ISC (and SMI) allowed the IRL places to race early on.

In the past, I've heard IRL fans criticise NASCAR/ISC for not doing more for the IRL. I just wonder if that's where this statement was coming from.

[V12]

Max and Bernie had a habit of destroying racing series regarded as a threat to F1.

Too true, it was around this time (early 90s) that the exciting World Sportscar Championship was killed by the 3.5 litre atmo rules (i.e. in common with F1), which many people at the time (I was too young to know back then) thought was a ruse to get the likes of Peugeot into F1 (they joined in 1994), and the WSC promptly died on its arse - there may be more to it than that but I've heard people say that in the past.

[wedge]

Too true, it was around this time (early 90s) that the exciting World Sportscar Championship was killed by the 3.5 litre atmo rules (i.e. in common with F1), which many people at the time (I was too young to know back then) thought was a ruse to get the likes of Peugeot into F1 (they joined in 1994), and the WSC promptly died on its arse - there may be more to it than that but I've heard people say that in the past.

Bernie dissed Touring car racing as 'Hertz Rental Car Racing', but ended up forming the ITC and allowed DTM/ITC to destroy itself. :mad:

[Lee Roy]

In the past, I've heard IRL fans criticise NASCAR/ISC for not doing more for the IRL. I just wonder if that's where this statement was coming from.

Out of a desparate attempt to try to find a scapegoat for the IRL's lack of success. It was easier than just accepting reality.

[garyshell]

Out of a desparate attempt to try to find a scapegoat for the IRL's lack of success. It was easier than just accepting reality.


Right, because god knows the France family would NEVER ever think of playing dirty pool. They would never think of buying a track just to shut it down or anything underhanded like that. :rolleyes:

Gary

[Lee Roy]

Right, because god knows the France family would NEVER ever think of playing dirty pool. They would never think of buying a track just to shut it down or anything underhanded like that. :rolleyes:

Gary

Of course, if the IRL had a product that would draw a decent crowd and had a big enough TV audience to generate "TV money" to share with the track owners, the track might be profitable and the owners wouldn't have to sell the track, would they?

[garyshell]

Of course, if the IRL had a product that would draw a decent crowd and had a big enough TV audience to generate "TV money" to share with the track owners, the track might be profitable and the owners wouldn't have to sell the track, would they?


Exactly what does any of that have to do with buying the track and then plowing it under? Hint: It had nothing to do with land speculation.

Gary

[Lee Roy]

Exactly what does any of that have to do with buying the track and then plowing it under? Hint: It had nothing to do with land speculation.

Gary

Give me one reason why an organization would do away with a track that was profitable.

[garyshell]

Give me one reason why an organization would do away with a track that was profitable.

You ARE kidding right? Why? One word... MONOPOLY. Buy the track and shut it down to drive business to your own track and prevent any other series from moving into the neighborhood. Oh, but no the France family would NEVER do anything like that, would they?

Gary

[Lee Roy]

You ARE kidding right? Why? One word... MONOPOLY. Buy the track and shut it down to drive business to your own track and prevent any other series from moving into the neighborhood. Oh, but no the France family would NEVER do anything like that, would they?

Gary


And just what track are you talking about? Nazareth? Pikes Peak?

[nigelred5]

If they were unprofitable, why the on earth would they buy them?
To eliminate and control competition and to regain control of existing race dates. I realize Nazareth came along with Michigan and Fontana, but they sought out and bought Pikes Peak for the sole reason of plowing it under so as to not compete with their failed plans for a track on the other side of Denver. They bought New Hampshire who had contracts for two race dates. There's already been overatures about moving their second date elsewhere. Lets see how much longer they have two races.

[Lee Roy]

If they were unprofitable, why the on earth would they buy them?
To eliminate and control competition and to regain control of existing race dates. I realize Nazareth came along with Michigan and Fontana, but they sought out and bought Pikes Peak for the sole reason of plowing it under so as to not compete with their failed plans for a track on the other side of Denver. They bought New Hampshire who had contracts for two race dates. There's already been overatures about moving their second date elsewhere. Lets see how much longer they have two races.

New Hampshire was purchased by Bruton Smith, not the France Family. Sorry.

Wonder why the owners of Pikes Peak wanted to sell? I'm sure that they were just raking in the cash from their Indy Car race.

I recall going to CART races at Nazareth when the place was always sold out and I had to purchase my tickets months in advance. If the IRL could pack them in like that, I'm sure that Naz would still be operating.