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Ed
29th March 2008, 16:34
Whats up with Webber. He has said numerous things about Hamilton not being good etc but what the hell has he achived. Dont get me wrong im not that much of a Hamilton lover, but Webber has proved anything in my eyes. He is a very good qualifer but his race craft is not very good. I think 2005 showed this.

maybe he should look in the mirror before he starts to comment on other driver's ability.

gloomyDAY
29th March 2008, 16:38
Whats up with Webber. He has said numerous things about Hamilton not being good etc but what the hell has he achived. Dont get me wrong im not that much of a Hamilton lover, but Webber has proved anything in my eyes. He is a very good qualifer but his race craft is not very good. I think 2005 showed this.

maybe he should look in the mirror before he starts to comment on other driver's ability.What in the hell sparked this rant?

ottostreet
29th March 2008, 16:58
Whats up with Webber. He has said numerous things about Hamilton not being good etc but what the hell has he achived. Dont get me wrong im not that much of a Hamilton lover, but Webber has proved anything in my eyes. He is a very good qualifer but his race craft is not very good. I think 2005 showed this.

maybe he should look in the mirror before he starts to comment on other driver's ability.


i dont think mark actually said lewis wasnt good. i think he just said that lewis cant be compared to schumacher after just one season. he does agree that lewis is very talented, but he just says that all the hype and praise thats generated about hamilton is all from the british press. he doesnt insult lewis at any stage, as far as i recall. trying to find the article now for a link.

gloomyDAY
29th March 2008, 17:00
A link would help because I haven't read/heard any malice from Webber towards Hamilton in any interview.

ottostreet
29th March 2008, 17:10
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125613&page=2

post number 55! closest i can find to it without doing an intensive search!

Tazio
29th March 2008, 17:20
A link would help because I haven't read/heard any malice from Webber towards Hamilton in any interview.Hey glue this is what I copied to another post. I didn't include the link! I believe I just googled the words (Mark webber Lewis Hamiton Novety) and ran into several links

"His career has gone off like a rocket ship but it won't always be like that," Webber told The Independent newspaper.
"He's young and he's black which makes him unique in this sport, but that's got a shelf life.
"He won't stop being black but it will stop being a novelty.
"And he'll find that some of the column inches, maybe even this season, are totally negative and totally incorrect.
"That's not easy to deal with."
According to Webber, only the British are obsessed with Hamilton and comparisons with seven-times world champion Michael Schumacher are more than a little premature.
"Look, he's talented, we all know that," he said.
"But he's been in the sport for five minutes. People compare him with Schumacher. There is no comparison.
"When he wins the championship, then he's got six more to win before he can be compared to Schumacher.

"Yeah, he had a great first year. It was extraordinary what he did. But great sports stars are measured by their longevity. Pele, Steffi Graf, whoever."

gloomyDAY
29th March 2008, 17:32
I read that Taz, but I'm still not convinced Webber has said anything wrong.

A little criticism doesn't hurt as long as it's constructive and keeps people grounded.

Tazio
29th March 2008, 17:35
I read that Taz, but I'm still not convinced Webber has said anything wrong.

A little criticism doesn't hurt as long as it's constructive and keeps people grounded. He hasn't go to the thred that this came from the opinion is the exact opposite of this one this one was started in response to the other one!
Start at post#51 on the "Hamlton #one at McLaren" thread

markabilly
29th March 2008, 20:45
Hey glue this is what I copied to another post. I didn't include the link! I believe I just googled the words (Mark webber Lewis Hamiton Novety) and ran into several links

"His career has gone off like a rocket ship but it won't always be like that," Webber told The Independent newspaper.
"He's young and he's black which makes him unique in this sport, but that's got a shelf life.
"He won't stop being black but it will stop being a novelty.
"And he'll find that some of the column inches, maybe even this season, are totally negative and totally incorrect.
"That's not easy to deal with."
According to Webber, only the British are obsessed with Hamilton and comparisons with seven-times world champion Michael Schumacher are more than a little premature.
"Look, he's talented, we all know that," he said.
"But he's been in the sport for five minutes. People compare him with Schumacher. There is no comparison.
"When he wins the championship, then he's got six more to win before he can be compared to Schumacher.

"Yeah, he had a great first year. It was extraordinary what he did. But great sports stars are measured by their longevity. Pele, Steffi Graf, whoever."
Looks like some simple truth to me (course I serve the kool aid, I don't drink it... :beer: )

if he continues at his current pace of last year, and don't choke no more, then maybe the time will come for comparsion with the truly greats. And yeah the press will get negative, sooner or later, for sure.

CNR
29th March 2008, 22:33
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23432231-39478,00.html


Lewis a novelty, says Aussie ace Mark Webber



The Australian Red Bull racer said Hamilton has a uniqueness in the sport but it had a "shelf life".

CNR
29th March 2008, 22:43
how maney other drivers would be as good as lewis if they had an 8 year apprenticeships with McLaren.

and did not have to find money to make there own way.

CNR
29th March 2008, 22:58
Whats up with Webber. He has said numerous things about Hamilton not being good etc but what the hell has he achived. Dont get me wrong im not that much of a Hamilton lover, but Webber has proved anything in my eyes. He is a very good qualifer but his race craft is not very good. I think 2005 showed this.

maybe he should look in the mirror before he starts to comment on other driver's ability.

i think this may be a case of chinese whispers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_whispers

in which each successive participant secretly whispers to the next a phrase or sentence whispered to them by the preceding participant. Cumulative errors from mishearing often result in the sentence heard by the last player differing greatly and amusingly from the one uttered by the first.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/9/story.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10500032
http://news.theage.com.au/hamilton-an-f1-novelty-says-webber/20080325-21et.html
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23432231-39478,00.html

Valve Bounce
29th March 2008, 23:32
Whats up with Webber. He has said numerous things about Hamilton not being good ........

LINK PLEASE!![

orangatuang
29th March 2008, 23:32
Whats up with Webber. He has said numerous things about Hamilton not being good etc but what the hell has he achived. Dont get me wrong im not that much of a Hamilton lover, but Webber has proved anything in my eyes. He is a very good qualifer but his race craft is not very good. I think 2005 showed this.

maybe he should look in the mirror before he starts to comment on other driver's ability.

At least Webber has scored points when car has not let him down or he has been taken out as in Australia this year.Look at Malaysia this year,he held young Hamilton several times in the race and scored points,at least 7th=2pts for now until next weekend in Bahrain.

wmcot
30th March 2008, 07:57
The whole thing is being blown out of proportion. Webber isn't saying that Lewis is not talented and amazing, just that after one season it might be too early to list him among the all-time greats of F1. Time will do that if Lewis has the talent that it appears he has. Perhaps Webber didn't word it in a politically correct way, but that's his way - he speaks his mind!

Valve Bounce
30th March 2008, 08:54
I'm waiting for Mr Ed to respond. But like his namesake, he appears to be hiding in the barn.

Tazio
30th March 2008, 09:09
I'm waiting for Mr Ed to respond. But like his namesake, he appears to be hiding in the barn.LONELY Lewis Hamilton has become hooked on playing games over the internet with his kid brother as he whiles away his time as a tax exile in Switzerland.

The F1 sensation moved to Geneva last year to dodge paying British taxes on his estimated 10million-a-year salary.

He took a luxury three-bedroom apartment overlooking Lake Geneva but the 23-year-old, who won the season-opening Australian Grand Prix, has admitted he is already missing his family.

Oh Wilbur!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Mickey T
30th March 2008, 14:21
good work, ed. have a rant with no supporting links or even quotes, then disappear.

i know mark and i know mark's style. he actually gives quotes - like his teammate DC - which makes it easier to put a contextual spin on words like "novelty" and "black" that, if you hear the actual quote and the emphasis, mark never intended to deliver.

besides anything else, if you ask mark a fair and honest question, he will endeavour to give you a fair and honest answer - which is more than lewis does, regardless of how much the english press loves him.

as for mark being a poor racer, he had three or four poor races in the bmw/williams in 05, but he hasn't done a lot wrong since, has he?

i wonder if Ed's english and is still peeved with Mark for "ruining" hamilton's race in malaysia?

markabilly
30th March 2008, 14:30
LONELY Lewis Hamilton has become hooked on playing games over the internet with his kid brother as he whiles away his time as a tax exile in Switzerland.

The F1 sensation moved to Geneva last year to dodge paying British taxes on his estimated 10million-a-year salary.

He took a luxury three-bedroom apartment overlooking Lake Geneva but the 23-year-old, who won the season-opening Australian Grand Prix, has admitted he is already missing his family.

Oh Wilbur!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif
Meanwhile wehere are the headlines about mumbler for drumming up business????No where. bernie's nightmare come true was WDC, but F1 has been saved by Louie still ginning up headlines

Now if Mark can keep this up, Bernie will be pushing ferrari to give him a seat, as he is clearly showing true WDC talent for ginning up headlines as well.

Talent like that should not go to waste in F1!!!

Rollo
30th March 2008, 23:29
Whats up with Webber. He has said numerous things about Hamilton not being good etc but what the hell has he achived.
maybe he should look in the mirror before he starts to comment on other driver's ability.

Webber:
Races: 107 (105 starts)
Wins 0
Podium finishes 2
Pole positions 0
Career points 81
Fastest laps 0

Lewis Hamilton:
Races 19
Wins 5
Podium finishes 13
Pole positions 7
Career points 123
Fastest laps 2

It took Hamilton 13 races to eclipse the entire of Mark Webber's career. History has also shown that Alonso in that seat at Renault was a better choice than Webber would have been. I'm going to suggest that Webber will never take a Formula One race win as well.

I think at this point his best option is to cut his losses and get a nice cushy job with the HRT or at FPR.

BDunnell
30th March 2008, 23:32
I don't think Webber's lack of actual success compared to Hamilton precludes him from offering opinions.

ioan
30th March 2008, 23:38
I don't think Webber's lack of actual success compared to Hamilton precludes him from offering opinions.

Exactly, otherwise why would Rollo have any right to give his opinion about Webber?! ;)

jso1985
30th March 2008, 23:38
but makes him look like he's more busy talking about others drivers rather than concentrating on his own career.

But what I don't know is if he has asked about Hamilton and he gave his opinion or he just talked about Lewis cuz he had nothing better to talk about

Valve Bounce
30th March 2008, 23:42
Webber:

I think at this point his best option is to cut his losses and get a nice cushy job with the HRT or at FPR.

OK, Rollo, time to put your sig where your mouth is: care to back bunsen against Mark Webber?

Tazio
31st March 2008, 01:09
This thread has turned ugly!!!!!!!!!1111

Rollo
31st March 2008, 04:51
OK, Rollo, time to put your sig where your mouth is: care to back bunsen against Mark Webber?

Let's take a step back in time to the heady days of 26th April 2005.

http://archive.motorsportforums.com/vb2/showthread.php?postid=1572652#post1572652



Quite frankly I don't think Webber has a WDC in him. He's probably as good as Gerhard Berger was or even DC. Webber would make a solid number 2 behind the champion.
I think the only drivers out there who are capable of taking home a title are Rakka, Alonso, Button and maybe even Montoya (notwithstanding MS who is the best driver the world has ever seen).

Rakka :D - 2007
Alonso :D :D - Twice no less
Button - never lived up to the potential.
Montoya - too hot headed for his own good.
If three years ago I didn't see Webber taking out a WDC and today I don't see him taking out even a single race, then I'm fairly consistent. For the record, Button has won a GP which is more than Webber has.

Probably as good a driver as DC... hmm.

Valve Bounce
31st March 2008, 05:08
If three years ago I didn't see Webber taking out a WDC and today I don't see him taking out even a single race, then I'm fairly consistent. For the record, Button has won a GP which is more than Webber has.

Probably as good a driver as DC... hmm.

OK!! take your pick. Are you game to bet your sig against Webber? You can have your choice of DC or bunsen.

Ari
31st March 2008, 05:33
Bit of a joke of a thread!

I remember reading a while ago when Mark said "let's see how he goes if McLaren serve up a shed".

Mark has battled his entire career to be competitive in cars which have proven they're not. Mark beats his team-mate more times than not which is ultimately the best barometer of a good driver.

Marks probably just jealous of Hamiltons red carpet ride into F1.... I know I would be if I were Mark!

Bolt them both in the same car and I know EXACTLY where my money would be.

Hamilton looked like a rookie, that he is, following Mark at Sepang. He was all over the place sliding every which way but forward. He was in a car 1.8 seconds faster than his and couldn't pass. Says a lot.

Tazio
31st March 2008, 05:44
My money(if I had any) is on the Ausie! :)

Ranger
31st March 2008, 05:49
I don't think Webber's lack of actual success compared to Hamilton precludes him from offering opinions.

I agree.

If that was the case, then all of Martin Brundle's opinions would be worthless. Which they are not.

Valve Bounce
31st March 2008, 06:42
Some drivers luck onto a good drive, others work hard to get there, while some others are just lucky to be in F1.
Having said that, some drivers are obviously a helluva lot better than others.

I just hope the Newey designed Red Bull will make progress this year.

markabilly
31st March 2008, 13:58
my money would be on Webber too!1

however in the world of the drivers in F1, deserving has got nothing to do with success

CNR
1st April 2008, 04:55
OK, Rollo, time to put your sig where your mouth is: care to back bunsen against Mark Webber?


i think you have been had i think this may be one of the spamers that spam
http://ten.com.au

the giveaway is Channel 10 - "Live" Motorsport my ARSE! - ****in disgraceful

suomi_N1K (http://www.australianmotorsportforums.com.au/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22) maclarenrules & kimirules care to back bunsen needs to changed
australian .au
www. motorsportforums.com (http://www.%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20motorsp ortforums.com)

Gibbsy
1st April 2008, 06:11
Let's take a step back in time to the heady days of 26th April 2005.

http://archive.motorsportforums.com/vb2/showthread.php?postid=1572652#post1572652



Rakka :D - 2007
Alonso :D :D - Twice no less


Wow... you predicted that alonso and kimi would win championships in 2005... and you were proven correct!?!?

Damn you are the clever one aren't you Rollo, you correctly guessed that the two best placed drivers of the time would be the next two to win world championships. You are truly astounding, a regular nostradamus!

I bow to you sir.

CNR
1st April 2008, 07:54
Channel 10 - "Live" Motorsport my ARSE! - ****in disgraceful



this tell me he is in australia

BDunnell
1st April 2008, 20:34
I agree.

If that was the case, then all of Martin Brundle's opinions would be worthless. Which they are not.

And, indeed, none of us would ever be able to offer an opinion on anything that we have never done ourselves, which is plainly ridiculous.

ST205GT4
2nd April 2008, 03:12
Webber:
Races: 107 (105 starts)
Wins 0
Podium finishes 2
Pole positions 0
Career points 81
Fastest laps 0

Lewis Hamilton:
Races 19
Wins 5
Podium finishes 13
Pole positions 7
Career points 123
Fastest laps 2

It took Hamilton 13 races to eclipse the entire of Mark Webber's career. History has also shown that Alonso in that seat at Renault was a better choice than Webber would have been. I'm going to suggest that Webber will never take a Formula One race win as well.

I think at this point his best option is to cut his losses and get a nice cushy job with the HRT or at FPR.

You're obviously just trying to wind people up Rollo. Any fool knows F1 is largely about equipment. Nobody knows how good 3/4 of the field truely is because they simply don't have the equipment. Attempting to rubbish Webber's results who's never had had the good fortune to be in any team that has the equipment to challenge for the title, with Hamilton's who has been with one of the two best teams in F1 since he arrived is laughable.

The same argument follows for Webber v Alonso. They've never been in equally competitive vehicles.

About the only thing that you are right about is that Webber is unlikely to ever take a win and that's simply a factor of poor career management, rather than a reflection on his ability. Hell if Barrichello can win a race anyone can given the right machinery.

As for Webber **** canning Hamilton. All I see is Webber being realistic. The shine comes off every sportsman eventually. Hamilton will be no different. Not sure how that's being seen as derogatory?

wmcot
2nd April 2008, 05:15
And, indeed, none of us would ever be able to offer an opinion on anything that we have never done ourselves, which is plainly ridiculous.

But that's just your opinion! :)

My opinions are never ridiculous!

Schultz
2nd April 2008, 13:15
Bit of a joke of a thread!

:)

Knock-on
2nd April 2008, 13:40
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/mark-webber-hamilton-only-the-english-are-interested-795603.html


"Why not? In all the pre-season interviews I've done in England, everyone wants to talk about Lewis."

Does he resent that? "Let's just say that nobody is talking about him anywhere else in the world. Look, he's talented, we all know that.

"But he's been in the sport for five minutes. People compare him with Schumacher. There is no comparison. When he wins the championship, then he's got six more to win before he can be compared to Schumacher. Yeah, he had a great first year. It was extraordinary what he did. But great sports stars are measured by longevity. Pele, Steffi Graf, whoever.

"Also, his career has gone off like a rocket ship, but it won't always be like that. He's young and he's black, which makes him unique in this sport, but that's got a shelf life. He won't stop being black but it will stop being a novelty. And he'll find that some of the column inches, maybe even this season, are totally negative and totally incorrect. That's not easy to deal with."

Sir Stirling Moss, I venture, has suggested that Hamilton might just have the potential to be better than anyone except his hero Fangio. Does that sort of comment make Webber laugh? "No, I've got a lot of time for Stirling. But look, I'm not going to sit here blowing smoke up the opposition's arse."

Don't see the problem with what he's saying.

He had a good year and is a bit of a novelty but as he endures a bit more, that will wear off.

It must be very frustrating for the rest of the drivers that everyone is obsessed with Lewis and not them :laugh:

ArrowsFA1
2nd April 2008, 13:45
"But look, I'm not going to sit here blowing smoke up the opposition's arse."
:laugh: :up: :s mokin:

Knock-on
2nd April 2008, 13:50
:laugh: :up: :s mokin:

I laughed when I read that. Practically conceding he's something special :)

Tazio
2nd April 2008, 17:55
And, indeed, none of us would ever be able to offer an opinion on anything that we have never done ourselves, which is plainly ridiculous.
Wise words!

Mark said what he said!
He didn't say he is as good a driver as LH,
or anyone else in that interview!
His comparison to the chin is a fair one IMHO

I've never been a fan of Webbo'
But this thread (and his performance in Malaysia)
is turning me into one.

I don't want to insult anyone(at the moment)
but I think a lot of the negative things that are being posted about him
are a product of the insecurity of some Mclaren fans.
And, resentment resulting directly to the fact that MW held off LK in the last
race for an inordinantly long period of time ;)

Rollo
2nd April 2008, 23:28
You're obviously just trying to wind people up Rollo. Any fool knows F1 is largely about equipment. Nobody knows how good 3/4 of the field truely is because they simply don't have the equipment. Attempting to rubbish Webber's results who's never had had the good fortune to be in any team that has the equipment to challenge for the title, with Hamilton's who has been with one of the two best teams in F1 since he arrived is laughable.

The same argument follows for Webber v Alonso. They've never been in equally competitive vehicles.

Fortune doesn't enter into it. Both Alonso and Webber were being managed by Flavio Briatore. One has to ask the question why Alonso was placed in a Minardi before Webber and then why he was installed as Renault test driver instead of Webber.

Either one of two conclusions can be drawn:
1. Either Flavio though he could do better with Alonso than he could with Webber in the Renault - 2 World Championships confirm that.
2. If Webber was instrumental himself in his own negotiations, then he failed.
Either way, the seat went on to win 2 World Championships without him.

There are millions of drivers in the world, of those only a few thousand drive competitively, of those even less get paid for it, of those there are only 22 in an F1 field, and of those only maybe three have the potential to be World Champion in any given year.

cy bais
3rd April 2008, 04:09
Webber's an inconsistent racer and a consistent whiner. Too bad, he's got potential I reckon if he would stop making excuses, kinda like Button. :)

ShiftingGears
3rd April 2008, 07:09
Webber's an inconsistent racer and a consistent whiner. Too bad, he's got potential I reckon if he would stop making excuses, kinda like Button. :)

I'm not sure how you're going to disprove 'excuses' like "the car broke". ;)

Garry Walker
3rd April 2008, 11:51
Webber is 100% right about The Golden Boy. I like Webbo, because he has the balls to say things as they are. Unfortunately honesty sometimes offends people of lesser mental abilities. How terrible :D

ST205GT4
3rd April 2008, 14:52
Fortune doesn't enter into it. Both Alonso and Webber were being managed by Flavio Briatore. One has to ask the question why Alonso was placed in a Minardi before Webber and then why he was installed as Renault test driver instead of Webber.

Either one of two conclusions can be drawn:
1. Either Flavio though he could do better with Alonso than he could with Webber in the Renault - 2 World Championships confirm that.
2. If Webber was instrumental himself in his own negotiations, then he failed.
Either way, the seat went on to win 2 World Championships without him.

There are millions of drivers in the world, of those only a few thousand drive competitively, of those even less get paid for it, of those there are only 22 in an F1 field, and of those only maybe three have the potential to be World Champion in any given year.

You can indeed ask those questions, but you have no clearer idea than I do. I find it surprising that you're naive enough to think that pure driving ability could be the only driving force for someone like Briatore. In F1 more than any other form of motorsport, money talks bull**** walks. Sponsorship for motorsport is a lot easier to find with Spanish Telcos than it is with Australian companies in any industry.

Nor does the fact that Alonso went on to win 2 WDC prove that he was the better driver. What is your basis in fact that Webber in the same car would not have achieved the same results? It can't be that Webber cannot perform as well as Alonso as he actually finished higher in the 2000 F3000 championship.

I will agree that Mark has failed from a career management point of view. His biggest mistake was taking on Briatore as manager in order to get funding for a further season in F3000.

Tazio
3rd April 2008, 15:36
Webber is 100% right about The Golden Boy. I like Webbo, because he has the balls to say things as they are. Unfortunately honesty sometimes offends people of lesser mental abilities. How terrible :D
Damn straight@!!!!!!!!!!

jens
3rd April 2008, 20:19
Webber has a reason to talk, because his contract with RB will end at the end of the season and probably he eyes a drive in a better team. ;) What are the possibilites of him moving to somewhere else or is he destined to stay at RB for the rest of his F1 career?

Tazio
4th April 2008, 03:00
Webber has a reason to talk, because his contract with RB will end at the end of the season and probably he eyes a drive in a better team. ;) What are the possibilites of him moving to somewhere else or is he destined to stay at RB for the rest of his F1 career?
Destined to stay at a slowly yet consistently improving Red Bull team. Webbo's worst Nightmare He secures a seat at a team that is close to the top. With his luck as soon as he gets there, by no fault of his own the team falls on hard times Mark stay put, and win a war of attrition!

Rollo
4th April 2008, 04:36
You can indeed ask those questions, but you have no clearer idea than I do. I find it surprising that you're naive enough to think that pure driving ability could be the only driving force for someone like Briatore.

The only driving force for Briatore was/is to win the World Championship, no more and no less. To that end he booted Button out of Renault to install Alonso, and had Webber test for Renault and then shipped him out.
Briatore is also the chap who also plucked a young Michael Schumacher from Jordan in 1991 (which also yielded world championships). Team principals are far better at guessing who the champion drivers are.

If Webber was a champion driver, he would have been given a top drive by now. You'd think that after 7 years if he was that sort of material, he'd have been given a drive by now. Personally I think he's about the 9th best driver out there.

wmcot
4th April 2008, 07:39
I like drivers who speak their mind even if I don't always agree with them (which I pretty much do in this case.) Even DC is more outspoken after leaving McLaren's PC environment. JPM and Stoddart were both entertaining, too, even if they were sometimes way "out there."

Tazio
4th April 2008, 10:44
I like drivers who speak their mind even if I don't always agree with them (which I pretty much do in this case.) Even DC is more outspoken after leaving McLaren's PC environment. JPM and Stoddart were both entertaining, too, even if they were sometimes way "out there."Jpm was a classic because he was alwaqys looking for passing oportunities. when he said he had room he probably did but was one of the only drivers that had the balance of B@||$, and control He has a reputation as a whinner because he didn't think he desvered to get chopped!
and he said so. What was the one incident with I don't remember someone help me out I think it was at the nurbergring and there was a first lap fight between Mike ,and jpm that involved Ralf. that was racing on the lawn for ralf I think,and didn't he do it avoiding Mike who was trying to pull a fred on lewis last year I don't know I lost all those video's

Rollo
15th September 2008, 00:09
Am I allowed to call Mark Webber overrarted now?


You're obviously just trying to wind people up Rollo. Any fool knows F1 is largely about equipment. Nobody knows how good 3/4 of the field truely is because they simply don't have the equipment.
This argument is now officially useless under the Vettel-Panis Exemption Clause.


Originally Posted by
I just don't think that Mark Webber has enough mongrel in him to ever win a GP unless it's under circumstances like Alesi did. - 19th Jul 04 (old forums)

Vettel won in a Toro Rosso, and presumably this should show up both Coulthard and Webber, the latter who must surely be worried right now if Vettel can win in a "worse" car.

aryan
15th September 2008, 01:56
In order to win races, you not only need to be fast, you also need to have race craft.

Webber lacks the latter. He is fast alright, considering his quali pace, but he is not able to manage in/out laps, traffic, changing conditions, etc.

At the end of the day, he is always with the wrong strategy at the wrong time, and surely, he is to blame for that as much as any race engineer he's had over the race.

CNR
15th September 2008, 02:10
Am I allowed to call Mark Webber overrarted now?


This argument is now officially useless under the Vettel-Panis Exemption Clause.



Vettel won in a Toro Rosso, and presumably this should show up both Coulthard and Webber, the latter who must surely be worried right now if Vettel can win in a "worse" car.
how many times are you going to say it is a "worse" car.
it is the same car with a Ferrari power plant. a better engine so how dose this make it a worse car
if you ask me i think that toro rosso get better engine then force india.

ShiftingGears
15th September 2008, 07:33
I'm looking forward to the Vettel-Webber driver lineup. Lets hope Newey gets it right.

Ranger
15th September 2008, 07:40
So the best driver in a midfield team is overrated based on another team's one-off performance. Hmm...


Vettel won in a Toro Rosso, and presumably this should show up both Coulthard and Webber, the latter who must surely be worried right now if Vettel can win in a "worse" car.

I suppose you are one of those people who says Sato is better than Button (or Barrichello) because Sato occasionally scored more points than the Honda drivers in 2007 in a Super Aguri... whereas the only useful comparison occurs in the same car at the same time (see: 2004, 2005).

And rather, I'd say it should show up Red Bull Racing, who have not looked fast at all compared to both Vettel and Bourdais in the past few races. The only one who should be worried now is Vettel, who is moving to a slower team next year.

Knock-on
15th September 2008, 11:31
Well, this thread started about Webber making some comments about Lewis and has progressed to questioning Webbers ability :laugh: It's called thread evolution.

I suppose Mark is a bit of a DC really. Always nearly there but not quite.

He's very quick on some days but has never had that real spark although I quite like him.

Experience and craft will see him hanging around a bit longer but I think Vettel will beat him next year.

jens
15th September 2008, 18:24
Webber is beating Coulthard more convincingly than any other Scot's previous team-mate has ever done. ;) One might argue that DC's best days are over, but still I don't think we should criticize a driver, who is beating a very experienced driver (who also doesn't lack of achievements - in terms of race wins) very consistently (I don't remember any weekend from 2008, when DC had the upper hand). Let's wait for 2009 and see, how will Webber fare against Vettel and then downplay him if it's needed. It's of course debatable, but this pairing may well turn out to be the best driver line-up in 2009. :s mokin: