TOCA Shoot-out

[VkmSpouge]

I vaguely remember the shoot-out due to Mansell and Needell get together but I was wondering remembers what the format of the race was and if anyone has the entry list to the race?

[Iain]

- The whole grid from the qualifying results was reversed
- After a certain number of laps, the last placed car would be blackflagged until there were 6 cars remaining for a final shoot-out
- The safety car could be introduced at any time, whether needed or not :laugh:

There were 3 of them from 1992-94. Won by John Cleland, David Leslie and Paul Radisich.

1993 Results
1. David Leslie - Ecurie Ecosse Vauxhall Cavalier
2. Paul Radisich - Team Mondeo Ford Mondeo
3. Steve Soper - Schnitzer BMW 318i
4. Robb Gravett - Peugeot Sport Peugeot 405
5. Dave Coyne - Peugeot Sport Peugeot 405
6. Tiff Needell - Ecurie Ecosse Vauxhall Cavalier
7. Ian Ashley - Colin Davids Racing Vauxhall Cavalier
NC Matt Neal - Team Dynamics BMW 318i........accident

All above completed 30 laps prior to race stoppage

NC Nigel Mansell - Team Mondeo Ford Mondeo........accident
NC Bengt Thenander - Thenander Motorsport BMW M3........black flagged
NC Ian Khan - Maxteds Motorsport Vauxhall Cavalier........accident
NC Hayden Measham - Ecurie Ecosse Vauxhall Cavalier........accident
NC David Pinkney - Pinkney Motorsport BMW 318i........accident damage
NC Derek Warwick - Park Lane Racing Toyota Carina........accident damage
NC Chris Rea - Team Dynamics BMW 318is........accident
NC Klaas Zwart - Petroline BMW 318i........accident
NC Patrick Watts - RD Motorsport Mazda Xedos 6........accident
NC Alex Portman - Team Dynamics BMW 318is........accident

[VkmSpouge]

Thanks Iain. I had not realised that there were 3 Shootouts, I thought there was just the one in 1993. What happened in the other two races and who took part?


- The safety car could be introduced at any time, whether needed or not :laugh:

Unlike today of course...

:D

[vx1054]

Here's the 92 and 94 Results;

Nov 1st 1992:

1 - John Cleland - Vauxhall Cavalier GSi
2 - Robb Gravett - Peugeot 405 Mi16
3 - David Leslie - Vauxhall Cavalier GSi
4 - Ian Flux - Peugeot 405 Mi16
5 - Alex Portman - Vauxhall Cavalier GSi
6 - Matthew Neal - BMW 318is

Oct 16th 1994

1 - Paul Radisich - Ford Mondeo
2 - Jeff Allam - Vauxhall Cavalier
3 - John Cleland - Vauxhall Cavalier
4 - Anthony Reid - Vauxhall Cavalier
5 - Patrick Watts - Peugeot 405 Mi16
6 - Giampiero Simoni - Alfa Romeo 155TS

Both these races took place at Donington.

[racer69]

They also had an end-of-season BTCC race in 1996 and 1997, both times at Donington, with the winner being awarded the RAC Tourist Trophy.

Alain Menu won in both times

[Rover V8]

The 94 Toca Shoot-Out was one of the support races for the Touring Car World Cup race- the full entry was (in race result order)

1 Paul Radisich (Team Mondeo/Ford Mondeo)
2 Jeff Allam (Vauxhall Sport/Vauxhall Cavalier)
3 John Cleland (Vauxhall Sport/Vauxhall Cavalier)
4 Anthony Reid (Vauxhall Sport/Vauxhall Cavalier)
5 Patrick Watts (Peugeot Sport/Peugeot 405Mi16)
6 Giampiero Simoni (Alfa Corse/Alfa Romeo 155TS)

DNF

Steve Soper (BMW M-Team Schnitzer/BMW 318iS)-black flagged
Eugene O'Brien (Peugeot Sport/Peugeot 405Mi16)
James Kaye (Enny Team Maxted/Toyota Carina E)- black flagged
Julian Westwood (Roy Kennedy Racing/Vauxhall Cavalier)- black flagged
Robb Gravett (Team Mondeo/Ford Mondeo)- black flagged
Tiff Needell (Old Spice Nissan Racing/Nissan Primera)- black flagged
Gabriele Tarquini (Alfa Corse/Alfa Romeo 155TS)
Nigel Smith (Team HMSO/Vauxhall Cavalier)
Matt Neal (Team Mazda/Mazda 323F Lantis)- black flagged

As in the earlier Shoot-Outs, after a certain distance, the guy running last on each lap was black flagged, and there were a few unusual car/driver combinations- Vauxhall fielding a third Cavalier for Anthony Reid, Julian Westwood (ex-F3 and F3000) in what I think was his only touring car drive in Roy Kennedy's Cavalier, Robb Gravett in one of a his appearances in a works-backed Rouse Mondeo, Matt Neal in the Mazda 323, and from memory I think James Kaye used one of the TOM'S/Castrol cars, rather than his regular Carina

[Rover V8]

They also had an end-of-season BTCC race in 1996 and 1997, both times at Donington, with the winner being awarded the RAC Tourist Trophy.

Alain Menu won in both times

The 1996 Donington TT race was run as a single race of 80 laps- an hour-and-three quarters with just 14 cars starting- it wasn't a thriller, even with the safety car coming out to close up the field. around the 50 lap mark....

Full result:

1 Alain Menu (Williams Renault Dealer Racing/Renault Laguna)
2 Kelvin Burt (TWR- Volvo 850 Racing/Volvo 850)
3 John Bintcliffe (Audi Sport UK/Audi A4 Quattro)
4 Jo Winkelhock (BMW Team Schnitzer/BMW320i)
5 Tim Harvey (Total Team Peugeot/Peugeot 406)
6 James Kaye (Honda Team Linder/Honda Accord)
7 Warren Hughes (Valvoline Team Mondeo/Ford Mondeo)
8 Eugene O'Brien (???/Honda Accord)
9 Jan Brunstedt (Vauxhall Sport?/Vauxhall Vectra)

DNF

Will Hoy (Williams Renault Dealer Racing/Renault Laguna)
John Cleland (Vauxhall Sport/Vauxhall Vectra)
Marco Werner (Honda Team Linder/Honda Accord)
Hamish Irvine (Mint Motorsport/Vauxhall Cavalier)
Ian Heward (Promotor Sport/Vauxhall Cavalier)

Several of the regular BTCC factory teams only fielded single cars (Audi, Ford Peugeot etc)

I think Brunstedt's Vectra was run by Vauxhall Sport- he'd bought one of the team's 1996 BTCC cars to race in Sweden for 1997.

From memory, the Eugene O'Brien Honda entry was intended as a 1997 BTCC entry which never happened- I can't remember the team involved without digging out the original race programme.


The 1997 TT was run to a totally different format- 3 races, 2 heats and a final with the grid for the second race being lined up in reverse order of qualifying times and the third based on race 1 and 2 results- this led to the interesting spectacle of several of the quick guys (Menu, Leslie and Hoy) trying to qualify as slowly as possible in order to start race 2 on the front row, usually by standing on the brakes just before the end of the lap!

The entry was a mixture of BTCC regulars and some interesting visitors.

Final result

1 Alain Menu (Williams Renault Dealer Racing/Renault Laguna)
2 Jason Plato ((Williams Renault Dealer Racing/Renault Laguna)
3 Rickard Rydell(Volvo S40 Racing/Volvo S40)
4 Frank Biela (Audi Sport UK/Audi A4 Quattro)
5 Yvan Muller (Audi Sport UK/Audi A4 2wd)
6 Anthony Reid (Vodafone Nissan Racing/Nissan Primera)
7 Will Hoy (Team Mondeo/Ford Mondeo)
8 Armin Hahne (Volvo S40 Racing/Volvo S40)
9 John Bintciffe (Audi Sport UK/Audi A4 Quattro)
10 Kris Nissen (Abt Sportsline/Audi A4 Quattro)
11 Matt Neal (Team Dynamics/Ford Mondeo)
12 Christian Abt (Abt Sportsline/Audi A4 Quattro)
13 Paula Cook (Vodafone Nissan Racing/Nissan Primera)
14 Jonny Kane (Team Honda Sport/Honda Accord)
15 Tim Sugden (Mint Motorsport/Vauxhall Cavalier)
16 Kari Makinen (Team Dynamics/Nissan Primera)
17 Jan Brunstedt (Opel Team Sweden/Opel Vectra)

DNF
David Leslie (Vodafone Nissan Racing/Nissan Primera)
John Cleland (Vauxhall Sport/Vauxhall Vectra)
Paul Radisich (Team Mondeo/Ford Mondeo)

DNS
Tord Linnerud (Opel Vectra GT)
Aaron Slight (Team Honda Sport/Honda Accord)


Muller's Audi was actually run by one of the European Audi teams (ROC I think), and was the first of the 2wd cars Audi would race in 1997.

Peugeot entered, but as I recall, they didn't turn up as the cars had allegedly been delayed in shipping back from Bathurst and weren't ready in time- Vauxhall's single-car effort may have been for the same reason.

The Makinen Primera was Matt Neal's late-season BTCC car, which Makinen had bought to race in Sweden- Matt reverted to the early-season Mondeo for the TT.

Slight's Honda was damaged in a shunt in race 1 and couldn't be repaired in time for the other two races, and Linnerud was another heat 1 retirement

[Rover V8]

Here's the 92 and 94 Results;

Nov 1st 1992:

1 - John Cleland - Vauxhall Cavalier GSi
2 - Robb Gravett - Peugeot 405 Mi16
3 - David Leslie - Vauxhall Cavalier GSi
4 - Ian Flux - Peugeot 405 Mi16
5 - Alex Portman - Vauxhall Cavalier GSi
6 - Matthew Neal - BMW 318is




The '92 Shoot-Out is probably remembered by many as the race in which Kieth Odor's Primera ended up in the spectator area at the Old Hairpin after going over the fence....

I'll dig out the full result and entry list later- from memory, the other starters were Andy Rouse and James Kaye in Toyotas, Dave Coyne in a Peugeot, Odor's Nissan, Jeff Allam in the second works Cavalier and Dennis Leech's Sierra.

With no BMW entry, 1992 champion Tim Harvey drove the Safety Car as I recall.....!

[Iain]

From memory, the Eugene O'Brien Honda entry was intended as a 1997 BTCC entry which never happened- I can't remember the team involved without digging out the original race programme.


It was something like Yap Motorsport, run by an Asian businessman. They announced pretty big plans for 1997, then it just disappeared without a trace.

Wasn't Aaron Slight's crash rather similar to the one he had at Donington in 2002 in the Astra, where it hit the wall at Hollywoods and the rear end was destroyed?

Was the 1992 Toca Shootout safety car driven by Will Hoy rather than Tim Harvey? I remember Will driving it at one point in one of these events. I remember Ian Flux and Gary Ayles in Peugeots for the 1992 event as well, Flux in a Peugeot Talbot Sport machine (which I think became his 1993 RKR BTCC entry) and Ayles in a Peugeot Sport Italia entry.

[BDunnell]

- The whole grid from the qualifying results was reversed

As far as I recall, there was no qualifying and the grid was merely 'decided upon' by TOCA.

Also, Tim Harvey definitely drove the safety car in 1992. Despite the poor entry, that was one of the best touring car races I've ever seen — amazingly close, with some fierce battling, yet with an almost complete absence of contact.

[BDunnell]

I remember Ian Flux and Gary Ayles in Peugeots for the 1992 event as well, Flux in a Peugeot Talbot Sport machine (which I think became his 1993 RKR BTCC entry) and Ayles in a Peugeot Sport Italia entry.

I'm sure that Ayles didn't run in the 1992 Shoot-out, though he did drive the Italian-entered 405 in the final BTCC meeting of that season at Silverstone. It was Flux and Gravett in the two 405s, and both did superbly, Flux setting the fastest lap.

[BDunnell]

...from memory I think James Kaye used one of the TOM'S/Castrol cars, rather than his regular Carina

I think that's right.

[Iain]

I was only 11 at the time and have only seen the race once (in the end of season BTCC review on BBC2 that Christmas), so forgive me for being wrong sometimes. ;)

I sure I remember Will Hoy driving the safety car at one of the shootouts though, I might be wrong, but it's something that sticks in my mind. :)

I'm still eagerly awaiting the rest of this race to appear on Youtube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8GjGPmzRygE

Notice that Andy Rouse is using an older Carina that was used by Thorkild Thyrring and Julian Bailey during the regular season. One of the 1991 Kaliber/ICS cars going by it's navy blue and white livery.

[BDunnell]

There was to have been a 1995 race, but it was cancelled. A shame, as Autosport reported Alan Gow as saying that he would have liked to have run it the opposite way round the Donington circuit!

[BDunnell]

I'm still eagerly awaiting the rest of this race to appear on Youtube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8GjGPmzRygE

Notice that Andy Rouse is using an older Carina that was used by Thorkild Thyrring and Julian Bailey during the regular season. One of the 1991 Kaliber/ICS cars going by it's navy blue and white livery.

It was partly that car's lack of pace that made that race so entertaining. Rouse had an incredible first lap and got in front very early on, but then, by his own admission, held everyone else up.

[Iain]

There was to have been a 1995 race, but it was cancelled. A shame, as Autosport reported Alan Gow as saying that he would have liked to have run it the opposite way round the Donington circuit!

I remember that! Donington being one of the few UK circuits to have a licence to run in the reverse direction. Knockhill and Mallory Park being the others that I know of.

[Coops]

There's no reason, with such a big field once again, not to run something similar to the TOCA shootout again. And the world cup, as the implementation of s2000 regulations has been rolled out across Europe for a while now. I suppose the WTCC kind of fills that void, but it'd be great to watch foreign cars and drivers go head to head with home grown talent again. I've just been watching the touring car world cup of the mid-nineties on youtube, fantastic seeing the Audi of Pirro getting stuck into familiar names.

The Oulton Park Gold cup used to be awarded to BTCC drivers (ala 1993), what series is it awarded to now? Brit GT or F3?

[LiamM]

It'd be hard to implement now especially for such a small audience (we may all like touring cars, but its a small minority in comparison). Bar two teams the field is full of independents, remember a few years ago when they tried to do a non championship race as a F1 support at Silverstone? It was rather quickly vetoed by the teams.

[Iain]

The Oulton Park Gold cup used to be awarded to BTCC drivers (ala 1993), what series is it awarded to now? Brit GT or F3?

It gets awarded at their annual big historic meeting in August now.

Liam, perhaps if there was a big money prize or a really good incentive to enter at stake, it would be successful.

[BDunnell]

I think there are several reasons why the Shoot-out probably wouldn't work now. Back then, it was a reverse grid race and offered a bit of novelty. Now, reverse grids are a matter of course. It also never attracted a great entry on its own. 1992's was very poor, but the race made up for it. Without Mansell, 1993's grid was average with just a few front-running cars (Radisich, Soper, Leslie, Needell, Gravett and Coyne, apart from Mansell) fighting it out. And the line-up in 1994 was bolstered by it being the support race for the World Cup.

[ed.peters]

There's no reason, with such a big field once again, not to run something similar to the TOCA shootout again. And the world cup, as the implementation of s2000 regulations has been rolled out across Europe for a while now.

?????? I take it you have not heard of the ETC Cup? :confused:

Here is the proposed 2008 structure! http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=1646

Hopefully more BTCC teams and drivers can be attracted. :cool:

Past races can be found on the official FIA Site! http://www.fiaetcc.com/2k7

[Iain]

To be honest, not many people would have heard of it, it's so low key. :s

[SEATFreak]

- The whole grid from the qualifying results was reversed
- After a certain number of laps, the last placed car would be blackflagged until there were 6 cars remaining for a final shoot-out
- The safety car could be introduced at any time, whether needed or not :laugh:

Sounds like a cool idea.