So Tony, tell us how you really feel about Goodyear

[BenRoethig]

Can't say that I disagree. Still, someone will be seeing a nice fine next week.

[Jonesi]

Can't say that I disagree. Still, someone will be seeing a nice fine next week.

We'll see if Nascar meant it when they said a few months ago that they "wanted the drivers to be themselves".

[stereokarter]

Goodyear Tire is likely meeting with their lawyers as we speak to decide what their re-action will be to the "can't build a tire to save their lives" comment.

Tony is a great personality but he went way over the line when it comes to having respect for major sponsors and what they mean to a sport which came from roots that couldn't get beyond automotive based sponsors decades ago.

NASCAR & Goodyear will definitely take action, I'd say.

[JovialJooles]

What are the drivers supposed to do? Reading between the lines, Goodyear have been spoken to and nothing has happened.

It wasn't only Tony that was complaining, Jr was pretty unimpressed too. 30 laps and you can still see the mold line? Strewth!

I agree completely with Tony. Goodyear needs to step up to the plate. I don't agree with this referential attitude just because they have been in the sport a long time. All he is saying is get it sorted!

[harvick#1]

about time someone finally publically called the goodyear tires suck, Goodyear needs to step up fast or someone else needs to come in, I'd like BF Goodrich or someone who knows how to make a ****ing race tire

[dont_be_jack]

about time someone finally publically called the goodyear tires suck, Goodyear needs to step up fast or someone else needs to come in, I'd like BF Goodrich or someone who knows how to make a ****ing race tire

I'm sure Tony isn't the only one that runs some tests with Hoosiers and Hoosier will be more than willing to take over or provide an alternative.

[BenRoethig]

I'm sure Tony isn't the only one that runs some tests with Hoosiers and Hoosier will be more than willing to take over or provide an alternative.

Problem with Hoosier is that they really don't make street tires.

[call_me_andrew]

about time someone finally publically called the goodyear tires suck, Goodyear needs to step up fast or someone else needs to come in, I'd like BF Goodrich or someone who knows how to make a ****ing race tire

Be careful what you wish for, they're owned by Michelin.

http://home.hvc.rr.com/kelzone/clubevo/usgp2005grid.jpg

[dont_be_jack]

Problem with Hoosier is that they really don't make street tires.

How is that a problem? They make damn good racing tires and if the drivers want a good tire they're the place to go.

[harvick#1]

hey Andrew, that only happened because Michelin didn't test the tire on the track before. if Michelin/BF Goodrich can to Nascar, they would most likely test at every track with all different teams, unlike what Goodyear does, to get the best tire combinations for each race. Goodyear has been trying to skimp on R&D and that can come at a cost to a Nascar driver

[BenRoethig]

How is that a problem? They make damn good racing tires and if the drivers want a good tire they're the place to go.

The benefits would be completely one sided. Michelin and Firestone could make similar grade tires and have the added benefit of advertising.

[Sparky1329]

Jeff Gordon wasn't thrilled either.


Georgia Power NASCAR Sprint Cup Pole winner Jeff Gordon didn't have rave reviews about Goodyear's tire selection either. "I felt like I was going to crash every single lap," Jeff Gordon said about his run. "I'm exhausted right now. I feel like I've run a thousand miles here. That was the hardest day I have ever had at Atlanta, especially for a top-five finish. This car, this tire, at this track was just terrible."

How many drivers can be penalized for telling the truth?

[Sparky1329]

The other Gordon chimed in as well. :D


Several Cup drivers, including Robby Gordon, have been critical over the tire that Goodyear has brought to AMS this weekend.

"We're on the edge," Gordon told AMS pit-notes reporter Angela Revell. "It's a handful. We're all sliding all over the place."

Gordon offered a remedy.

"Call Toyo," he said. "T-O-Y-O. It's a company in Japan. Or Firestone."

[JovialJooles]

The benefits would be completely one sided. Michelin and Firestone could make similar grade tires and have the added benefit of advertising.

I'm obviously being dense...

If Hoosier only make racing tyres, what is the problem with them supplying the premier racing series in the USA? Surely the benefit to them would be the strengthening of their racing tyre brand?

[Jonesi]

I'm obviously being dense...

If Hoosier only make racing tyres, what is the problem with them supplying the premier racing series in the USA? Surely the benefit to them would be the strengthening of their racing tyre brand?

The thought being that Goodyear offsets some of the cost of their racing tires to advertising their street tires. A company like Hoosier can't do that and would have to charge the race teams more for tires.

[JovialJooles]

Yes, I was being dense! :)

[Lee Roy]

I wish NASCAR would give Michelan a try . . . . . even though I can see where I am sitting that day in that picture of the 2005 USGP that call_me_andrew posted.

[e2mtt]

Robby Gordon is sponsored by TOYO off-road tires!, so of course he couldn't miss a chance to put in a plug.

Firestone in the Indy series is a model for a good tire program. They pride themselves on making tires that are CONSISTANT over the length of the run, something Goodyear seems to have no idea how to do.

[BenRoethig]

The thought being that Goodyear offsets some of the cost of their racing tires to advertising their street tires. A company like Hoosier can't do that and would have to charge the race teams more for tires.

Plus has there even been a Hoosier commercial? Firestone uses their race tires (and Indycars) to advertise their street tires. Hoosier is a good company for lower rung series, but they offer nothing to a top tier series.

[BenRoethig]

I wish NASCAR would give Michelan a try . . . . . even though I can see where I am sitting that day in that picture of the 2005 USGP that call_me_andrew posted.

Their B.F. Goodrich division does already make radial stock car tires.

[muggle not]

Most of the drivers had problems with the tire at Atlanta and many, many, spoke out. Tony, Jeff Gordon, Robby Gordon, Dale Jr, Kenseth, Jeff Burton, Jimmy Johnson, Kyle, were a few that had unkind words. Goodyear should be embarassed. I agree that it is time Nascar started looking at another tire for racing.

[Lee Roy]

I agree that it is time Nascar started looking at another tire for racing.

The Goodyear tires from race to race seem to fluctuate between being so soft that the right-front blows too often, or so hard that the racing suffers.

[wedge]

Can't help but agree with Smoke.

Goodyear sucks for the past decade. Bridgestone/Firestone have been the brand of choice because of their consistency.

[Chaparral66]

Can't help but agree with Smoke.

Goodyear sucks for the past decade. Bridgestone/Firestone have been the brand of choice because of their consistency.

Funny you should mention that. An article by Gordon Kirby last year talked about the Bridgestone/Firestone approach, giving an idea about what you might expect should they take a stab at NASCAR (probably kick Goodyear's butt). Article was edited strictly for the purpose of staying within space limitations of this post, all material from here on written by Gordon Kirby.

The Way It Is/ Searching for the secrets to Bridgestone Firestone's immaculately successful Champ Car and IRL tire programs
by Gordon Kirby

Over the past dozen years Bridgestone Firestone--the world's largest tire and rubber manufacturer--has also established iself as the globe's best race car tire builder. Bridgestone Firestone first defeated Goodyear in CART and IRL racing at the end of the twentieth century, then beat Michelin in Formula One. Today the company is the spec tire supplier to the world's top three forms of open-wheel racing--F1, Champ Car and IRL.

Bridgestone earned its place at the top of the heap in CART when the Indy Car World Series was at its height by thrashing Goodyear with faster, more consistent tires that were better engineered and better built. The company entered CART in 1995 with three teams--Patrick Racing, Steve Horne's Tasman team and Dale Coyne--and five cars. Four years later, Bridgestone had beaten Goodyear so completely that the longtime CART/USAC tire king pulled out of CART and IRL, leaving Bridgestone Firestone as the de facto spec tire supplier for both series.

"We had five cars in '95, ten in '96, fifteen in '97, twenty in '98 and then it was over," remarked Al Speyer, Bridgestone Firestone's executive director of motorsport.

Bridgestone Firestone has continued to produce a superb product for Champ Car and IRL and the company has also been extremely successful in Formula One, winning seven world championships since entering F1 eleven years ago. Michelin proved a tougher challenger in F1 than Goodyear in CART, but Bridgestone was beaten to the F1 title only once by Michelin in recent years and takes over this year as F1's spec tire suppller.


Speyer and his top men in the racing division are very secretive about the keys to Bridgestone Firestone's success. "There are a lot of little things we've done that are our own trade secrets that even to this day we protect pretty highly," Speyer remarked. "A lot of the stuff we do, we can't talk about. We don't want to because it might help our competition, even now that we're a spec tire supplier.

"There are processes we go through at the factory and in the field within our service organization and in the way we store and ship our tires. There are a lot of details. An important part I think is the way we interact with the teams on an engineering basis and on a testing basis."


© LAT USA Speyer says Bridgestone Firestone structured its testing very differently than Goodyear's testing method. An important difference was keeping control of the tires by leasing rather than selling them. "From the beginning we leased our tires," Speyer said. "We don't sell them. They're bar-coded and we take them all back. Some of them are analysed in detail back in Akron. But whether they get analysed, or not, they all get burned in a cement kiln because it is the environmentally best way to get rid of them."

Bridgestone Firestone doesn't want its used tires getting thrown in the trash, "to collect water and breed mosquitos," Speyer said. "But we also don't want them to get into the hands of our competitors, again, even to this day when we're a spec tire."

© LAT USA Bridgestone Firestone beat Goodyear on all points--performance, durability and consistency from tire set to set. "We had a little bit different philosophy," Speyer noted. "Goodyear seemed to focus on being fast for a short period of time, even in their testing. I remember Michael Andretti, who was still with Newman/Haas and Goodyear at the time, and he told us Goodyear had a much better tire coming along. We asked him if they'd made any long runs and he said, 'Oh yeah, we ran five or six laps.' But a long run for us was all the way to the end of a fuel load.

"There were two levels of consistency we worked on," Speyer continued. "One was set-to-set on the tire production run but the other was consistency during each run on the track. We always felt that if the tire could remain consistent as you burned off fuel you should run faster at the end of the run than at the beginning.

"If you looked at a Goodyear tire which might have run at 102 percent when it was new, but it trailed off to ninety-two percent as it wore down. We believed that if we could maintain a hundred percent level all the time and be consistent throughout the run, that being faster at the end is so important because the end of the run is always the end of the race. I think that was a really significant part of what we did because we were able to run faster at the end than at the beginning of a run."

Mader says two keys to Bridgestone Firestone's success have been the quality of the tires and an open, honest relationship with the teams. "The most important things were the consistency of the tires and us doing the right thing with the teams and working closely with them so that they trust what we tell them," Mader said. "They know that we don't blow smoke, almost never! We always tried to do the right thing and treat everybody the same. I don't know that's always done in all the other types of racing series, but that's the way we've always tried to operate."

Added Speyer: "We're very proactive in our relationships with the teams. We don't necessarily wait for them to come to us. We go to them. I know we have prevented a lot of problems before they happened because we actively went to them, particularly on air pressures and camber adjustments they were wanting to make.

"I think we were able to convince them that just going fast doesn't work if you don't make it to the end of the race. You've got to make it to the end. If you have a tire problem--and it's easy for a team or driver to say it's the tire company's fault--but if you have a problem you still haven't won the race. If you're going to try to run too low an inflation pressure or too much camber and abuse the tire, it's really not in your best interest in the end."

Speyer says there have been occasions when Bridgestone Firestone has been both lucky and good. "We've had teams run tires near the end of the race at much lower pressures than we were comfortable with and didn't have any problems," he related.

Bridgestone Firestone has put a lot of time and effort into minimizing the moisture content of the air used to inflate their tires. "Air in the tire is not a problem," Speyer commented. "It's the moisture that gets in the tire. If you go over the boiling point of water, which can happen in these tires, that moisture turns to steam and you get an uncharacteristic tire build-up. So a lot of teams used to take the air out and put nitrogen in.

"We worked a lot with air driers so that the air we inflate the tires with is virtually moisture-free. By doing that it eliminated the need for the tire guy to take that extra step and reinflate the tires with nitrogen. It's just another piece that we did. It probably saved the tire guys a lot of time and effort."


Mader itemized the combination of tires Bridgestone Firestone builds for Champ Car and IRL. "We've got street course, road course, short oval and superspeedway tires," Mader explained. "Basically, for the slower tracks like the street courses you need maximum grip, softer construction and good response. As you progress to the road courses you need more stability because you've got more downforce and faster corners so you also need a more durable compound.

"We have two primary compounds we run at the street courses and we have three primary compounds we run on the ovals. The short ovals require a stiffer tire and the compounds have a lot of grip. For the superspeedways the construction is stiffer yet again and they have the hardest compound. Basically, the more downforce you have the faster you're going and the stiffer the tire."

Finally, I asked Speyer if Bridgestone Firestone might ever show any interest in NASCAR. "The number one question our CEO gets asked is why don't we do stock car racing?" he grinned. "So I'd say, yes, there's interest from our management. But it would be a big step for us because they use a lot of tires. Production considerations would be a major issue for us. But it's one we could address.

"We're aware of a lot of different racing series and we're aware of a lot of interest in NASCAR. It's something we would be interested in for sure, but it's not available right now. They've extended their contract with Goodyear and we respect that."

Speyer added that Bridgestone Firestone is entirely satisfied with the technical challenges and promotional benefits it gets from racing in Champ Car and IRL. "We're quite happy with our Champ Car and Indy car programs," he said. "Both these programs work for us with great exposure. They're quite useful to us for advertising, marketing and entertaining clients and employees. We still very much enjoy what we're doing in Champ Car and IRL."

Quietly, almost beneath the surface, Bridgestone Firestone's unparalleled record of performance, durability and safety where the rubber meets the road is one of American open-wheel racing's biggest strengths. Here's hoping Speyer, Mader and their excellent corps of men and women from Brigestone Firestone will continue to support the sport for many years to come.


Auto Racing ~ Gordon Kirby
Copyright 2007 ~ All Rights Reserved

[Chaparral66]

Goodyear needs get its act together. Tony Stewart may be an "anal cavity", but many in NASCAR do take what he says seriously, and when the current contract is up, it might be interesting to see if Bridgestone/Firestone puts in a bid, of maybe BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin). 'Course, the flipside of this is that racers need to adapt to whatever conditions they find themselves in, and a loose racecar should be something an open wheel dirt racer like Tony could handle. Some might say he should strap on a set and deal with it and race. Can you imagine someone like Junior Johnson venting like this?

[e2mtt]

Thank you Chaparral66. I read that article a while back, and was very impressed. I wanted to include a link to it in my comment above about Bridstone/Firestones' Indy tire program being a model tire program, but I couldn't find it quick enough. That article says it all... how a tire program should be run, vs. how Goodyear's is run.

BTW Jim Hall's Chaparrals ruled!

[wedge]

Thank's Chaparral66, that was a good read.

Following Bridgestone/Firestone over that past decade has been interesting. No matter the racing series the feedback have been pretty much the same - consistant, stable tyres.

Goodyears have been known to be lazy in the past. When they were sole tyre supplier in F1 their compounds were either too soft of too hard. When there was a tyre war in the late 1990s they came up with tyres that blistered easily and, IIRC, similar problem in CART.

Even in Moto GP Valentino Rossi now desperately endorses Bridgestones!

[Chaparral66]

Thank you Chaparral66. I read that article a while back, and was very impressed. I wanted to include a link to it in my comment above about Bridstone/Firestones' Indy tire program being a model tire program, but I couldn't find it quick enough. That article says it all... how a tire program should be run, vs. how Goodyear's is run.

BTW Jim Hall's Chaparrals ruled!

Thanks, e2mtt. I've always been a Goodyear guy, but there is something to be said about keeping your equipment up to date, if you want to keep your tires up to date. The philosophy about keeping tire performance consistent throughout the life of the tire on the track, as oppose to seeing a gradual slide downhill, is also something for Goodyear to consider. From the Kirby article, it's clear that Goodyear, when they were competing with another tire company, such as Bridgestone/Firestone, cannot keep up using old manufacturing and testing techniques against a company constantly pushing the technological envelope. Goodyear needs to update their methods.

Cheers to you, e2mtt. JIM HALL WAS THE MAN. Every race car on the planet who makes use of areodynamics owes a debt to Jim Hall.

[wedge]

What's the deal with the tire blow outs at Vegas?

Bad setups?

[BenRoethig]

Or Badyear's compund.

[ms0362]

I'm not a Stewart fan, but at least he's not trying to be PC like Gordon and the others. Goodyear has had plenty of testing time with the track and car. There's no excuse for the results at Atlanta. They over reacted to the tire problems at LV and went to the far end of the scale "for safety". We're seeing variations in speeds 2-6 mph, so the teams are having to try agressive set-ups to get something out of this COT brick of a car. Goodyear is going to have to step up to the plate and provide something that works.

[tstran17_88]

Tony Stewart may be an "anal cavity"

Couldn't have said it better myself...except "is" should replace "may be". :D

[muggle not]

We now have 3 of the great drivers in Nascar, Tony, Jeff, and Dale that have made strong complaints about the tires. I would hope that helton comes down from that high horse and listens to them. The COT obviously requires different tires than Nationwide and the Trucks. Brian France was worried last year because the attendance was down. If they continue to screw up the racing like they did at Atlanta, shame on them.

[Sparky1329]

It isn't just any old drivers complaining about the tires. These guys are NASCAR champs who've earned some credibility. Even Dale Jarrett defended Tony and his comments.


"I have no problem with what Tony Stewart said. I'm a huge supporter of Goodyear and all that they have done over the years, but somebody needs to wake up right now and listen to these guys," said Jarrett, the former series champion who is retiring following Sunday's race in Bristol. "We're talking about race drivers that have a huge amount of talent and very seldom complain about things like that."

[Chaparral66]

Thank's Chaparral66, that was a good read.

Following Bridgestone/Firestone over that past decade has been interesting. No matter the racing series the feedback have been pretty much the same - consistant, stable tyres.

Goodyears have been known to be lazy in the past. When they were sole tyre supplier in F1 their compounds were either too soft of too hard. When there was a tyre war in the late 1990s they came up with tyres that blistered easily and, IIRC, similar problem in CART.

Even in Moto GP Valentino Rossi now desperately endorses Bridgestones!

Glad you liked it wedge. With an issue as hot as this is, it's good to have some perspective, and Gordon Kirby did a great job in giving us that. And I don't care what Goodyear said about Tony Stewart being wrong in why they left F1, CART, IRL, et al. It wasn't because they were spreading themselves thin with all the racing they were doing, they were getting their butts handed to them by a superior opponent, in this case Bridgestone/Firestone in both American Open Wheel and F1, although I think they did a better job of keeping up with Bridgestone in F1. I don't think they are in sportscar racing anymore, are they? GM switched from Goodyear to Michelin to keep with the Corvette's efforts in ALMS and at Le Mans. I am a fan of Goodyear, but if they want to retain creditable name in motorsports, they need to take a hard look at what they have and how they do it, and make some major changes. When they put their mind to it, Goodyear can compete with anyone, but when they were the only game around for a long time, they did seem to get complacent. They need to get that desire back again.

[nigelred5]

Couldn't have said it better myself...except "is" should replace "may be". :D

It's more of a "passage" or "orifice" than a cavity actually ;)

He!!, Nascar lives on controversy and outspoken drivers. They said they needed to get back to their roots. He's just the Darryl Waltrip of the new millenium. Someone's got to run their mouth or it wouldn't be NASCAR.

He didn't say anything that anyone didn't already know. Goodyear only wins where they don't have competition. Every set of Goodyear street tires I've ever owned were garbage after about 15K miles. They got their name by only being "Good for a Year". I've always been a "Michelin Man" myself, but I've had pretty good experiences with my Yoko's lately and my wife's van has 70K on a set of Firestone Indys' with probably another 10-15K left based on teh wear so far.

FWIW, Hoosier does advertise itself as the largest racing tire manfacturer in the world, and they do make "A" street tire.

[Chaparral66]

It's more of a "passage" or "orifice" than a cavity actually ;)

He!!, Nascar lives on controversy and outspoken drivers. They said they needed to get back to their roots. He's just the Darryl Waltrip of the new millenium. Someone's got to run their mouth or it wouldn't be NASCAR.

He didn't say anything that anyone didn't already know. Goodyear only wins where they don't have competition. Every set of Goodyear street tires I've ever owned were garbage after about 15K miles. They got their name by only being "Good for a Year". I've always been a "Michelin Man" myself, but I've had pretty good experiences with my Yoko's lately and my wife's van has 70K on a set of Firestone Indys' with probably another 10-15K left based on teh wear so far.

FWIW, Hoosier does advertise itself as the largest racing tire manfacturer in the world, and they do make "A" street tire.

Didn't used to be that way. Goodyear was the one who displaced the other companies, including Firestone, when they really made a push starting in the '60's, and AJ Foyt was one of the first to use them when they did. But they did not update their methods and record keeping (as the Kirby article I reprinted above shows) as much as the other guys did, and now they are forced to do what they are doing now, which is pay NASCAR to be the "official tire supplier" for Sprint Cup. I have used Goodyears on my SUV and did some off-roading with them and they did very well, but they were expensive. I switched to Yokohama when they came out with a great all terrain tire which I also off roaded. But Yoko discontinued them last year (bums!) so while I now have BF Goodrich, I may look at Goodyear again, now that they have reduced the price on the ones I wanted.

Goodyear can be goos again, they just have to adjust to the 21st century.

[Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left]

And guess what goodyear are bringing an untest tyre to bristol as well.

[Jonesi]

Foyt Says Firestone Is 'Just As Bad'

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/30/sp-foyt-says-firestone-is-just-as-bad/?sports-autoracing