sierra sierra leave atlantics....

[BobGarage]

SIERRA SIERRA ENTERPRISES WILL NOT RACE WITH ATLANTIC CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES IN 2008



Minden, NV (March 4, 2008) – The 2007 Atlantic Champion Sierra Sierra Enterprises team will not return to the 2008 Atlantic Championship line-up to defend its championship title. The split of Atlantic from the Champ Car World Series was one impact of the unification between Champ Car and the Indy Racing League. For the Atlantics, this split created a climate of uncertainty as well as a declining business model – both of which were major factors in the team’s decision.



“We regret that this was a decision we were forced to make. We examined all of our options very carefully and could not find a workable business model. We do support the merge and see it as the only path to preserving open wheel racing in the U.S.,” said Diane Kottke, Team Owner.



The Atlantic Series that remains is no longer attractive to sponsors. It will be difficult to secure funding in this and future seasons.



“We no longer see the Atlantic Championship as being the premiere ladder series. Our goal has always been to race with uncompromising quality – to our team, our drivers and our fans. In the current scenario we cannot meet that goal,” commented Richard Raeder, Team Manager.



Sierra Sierra Enterprises has a strong history of developing talent in Open Wheel Racing. Drivers such as Marc DeVellis, Ryan Dalziel (2003, 2004 2nd place Atlantic Championship), Kyle Krisiloff, Andrew Ranger (2004 Atlantic Rookie of the Year), James Hinchcliffe and Raphael Matos (2007 Atlantic Series Champion) have all gone on to further expand their careers in racing after strong seasons with Sierra Sierra.



Sierra Sierra Enterprises will continue to explore opportunities to participate in developing talent in Open Wheel Racing. Ongoing updates on the team can be found at http://www.sierrasierra.com.

sad news. but i bet they end up in IPS.

[bblocker68]

NOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Man, that's a bummer. Maybe this will give them incentive to step up to the IndyCar series?

[BenRoethig]

If they want to continue running Atlantics, they need it to become a F3 equivalent. If not they should have either merged it with IPS or set up a too tier system like they did with Indy lights and Atlantics.

[pits4me]

If they want to continue running Atlantics, they need it to become a F3 equivalent. If not they should have either merged it with IPS or set up a too tier system like they did with Indy lights and Atlantics.

Except the IPS and Indy Lights have one common element, both fail to really develop driver talent. Atlantic's has the legacy and the alumni. To leave them out of the open wheel equation is a big mistake.

[mlj]

Except the IPS and Indy Lights have one common element, both fail to really develop driver talent. Atlantic's has the legacy and the alumni. To leave them out of the open wheel equation is a big mistake.
Didn't Scott Dixon and Mario Dominquez come from Indy Lights? I know of others that ran in CART/CCWS that were good Drivers as well

[BobGarage]

Didn't Scott Dixon and Mario Dominquez come from Indy Lights? I know of others that ran in CART/CCWS that were good Drivers as well

paul tracy!

[garyshell]

Didn't Scott Dixon and Mario Dominquez come from Indy Lights? I know of others that ran in CART/CCWS that were good Drivers as well


paul tracy!


Yes to them all, but I think the point is/was that the count is WAY too low. Too many of the guys who do well in either of the ladders never make it to the "big show". But I have hope that that might change with the war now over, MAYBE more opportunities will emerge. It may be wishful thinking on my part, but...

Gary

[mlj]

paul tracy!

Oh Yeah... him too !!!

[bblocker68]

Didn't Scott Dixon and Mario Dominquez come from Indy Lights? I know of others that ran in CART/CCWS that were good Drivers as well


Greg Moore!!!!!!

[BobGarage]

Didn't Scott Dixon and Mario Dominquez come from Indy Lights? I know of others that ran in CART/CCWS that were good Drivers as well

oriol servia, christiano da matta, tony kanaan, helio, patrick carpeniter, adrian fernandez, casey mears, jimmy vasser, dan welldone.

[BlackRain]

"patrick carpeniter"

He is from Atlantics i believe.

[pits4me]

just shows the ignorance people have for Atlantics. There's a full list of alumni on their site, here's a few familiar names. Dan Wheldon, Luis Diaz, Ryan Dalzail, Michael Valiante, Anthony Lazzaro, Hiro Matsush!ta, Michael Andretti, Buddy Rice, Mark Dismore, Alex Barron, Memo Gidley, Richie Hearn, AJ Allmendinger, Scott Goodyear, Jimmy Vasser, Alex Tagliani, Roberto Moreno, Andrew Bordin, Keke Rosberg, Ryan Hunter-Reay, Sam Hornish Jr., Alex Figge, Ronnie Bremer, et al.

[BobGarage]

he did both. mainly atlantics but two races for Canaska Racing in indy lights in 94 tpp.

[pits4me]

oriol servia, christiano da matta, tony kanaan, helio, patrick carpeniter, adrian fernandez, casey mears, jimmy vasser, dan welldone.

Vasser? Carpentier? Wheldon ran in both. the other six were Indy lights alumni.

http://www.champcaratlantic.com/Drivers/DriverAlumni.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indy_Lights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indy_Pro_Series

[IMSAFAN1]

Atlantics is still the best form of open wheel racing in this country. Prior to that it was super vee. look how many drivers came out of that form. Forgot a Canadian driver from your Atlantic list...Claude B.

[mlj]

just shows the ignorance people have for Atlantics. There's a full list of alumni on their site, here's a few familiar names. Dan Wheldon, Luis Diaz, Ryan Dalzail, Michael Valiante, Anthony Lazzaro, Hiro Matsush!ta, Michael Andretti, Buddy Rice, Mark Dismore, Alex Barron, Memo Gidley, Richie Hearn, AJ Allmendinger, Scott Goodyear, Jimmy Vasser, Alex Tagliani, Roberto Moreno, Andrew Bordin, Keke Rosberg, Ryan Hunter-Reay, Sam Hornish Jr., Alex Figge, Ronnie Bremer, et al.




Most of the posts are in response to your post:

Quote :"Except the IPS and Indy Lights have one common element, both fail to really develop driver talent. Atlantic's has the legacy and the alumni. To leave them out of the open wheel equation is a big mistake" End Quote

We are not ignorant of the Atlantic Graduates... just want to show that the Indy Lights Series had more than their share of talent too.

[!!WALDO!!]

The Atlantic Series that remains is no longer attractive to sponsors. It will be difficult to secure funding in this and future seasons.

That tells you everything. See in 2007 the Atlantic purse was half of the Champ Car Purse per race.

Now this is the kicker, the IPS Purse was $175,000 more than Atlantics and nearly as much as the Champ Car Series. ($25,000 less)

Atlantics must become the opening rear engine series to move drivers to the IPS and then up. It is not only about developing drivers but teams so they can step up.

[Placid]

If they want to continue running Atlantics, they need it to become a F3 equivalent. If not they should have either merged it with IPS or set up a too tier system like they did with Indy lights and Atlantics.

I wonder what is the current budget for an F3 team?

And what will happen with Jonathan Bomarito and the 2007 Star Mazda Champ Dane Cameron now that they have no ride?

[Dave Brock]

The Atlantic Series that remains is no longer attractive to sponsors. It will be difficult to secure funding in this and future seasons.

That tells you everything. See in 2007 the Atlantic purse was half of the Champ Car Purse per race.

Now this is the kicker, the IPS Purse was $175,000 more than Atlantics and nearly as much as the Champ Car Series. ($25,000 less)

Atlantics must become the opening rear engine series to move drivers to the IPS and then up. It is not only about developing drivers but teams so they can step up.

ANOTHER FACTUAL ERROR !!

My friend, my dear dear friend....
You forget
CCWS may have stated a winners purse but it was NEVER PAID!
SO....what is half of nothing?
I believe the under the breath talk around the garages by those with any business accumen was " why are the Atlantic guys getting checks and we aren't, whot gives eh ?"

They may have been short changed several times a year for a number of years but the Atlantics did have a lawyer that wasn't connected to the "control group", enough said.

For my money Atlantics provide MORE excitement per minute of track time than any other profesional series anywhere on pavement and you KNOW what I mean.
IF I was King :eek: Atlantics would have another 100 horse and narrower tires AND be the formula for F-1 with lesser horsed cars as "ladder series" rides.
ONE TUB would work from beginer to F-1 and there would only be one series world wide ATLANTICS matriculation thru mastery of greater HP cars with increasingly narrower tires and possibly greater ground effect appendages.
COSTS would drop like lead and everyone would have a clear path with known costs upfront and reliable long term equipment...start and finish in the same series. Why have so many dirvergent paths to an enevitable end anyway, it happens to work for the taxi guys...sort of.

[Dave Brock]

Can you visualize 30 Atlantic cars rolling out of turn 4 at Irwindale or Grundy or Salem or Iowa?
Hell run the old ones out, on a clay oval like Manzy as entry level lowbuck deals. :s mokin:

[tbyars]

I agree with Bob. I think you'll see them end up in the IPS.

Why? Sierra Sierra is a mature Atlantics team from a team standpoint. The IPS series offers a more powerful car that is a better match to the CURRENT ICS challenges from a team standpoint.

The move also brings up some questions, however. It has been rumored that the Atlantics will run under an ALMS sanction going forward, but that is not confirmed just yet, AFAIK. Has there been some fly in the ointment of that arrangement, and have Kottke or Raeder caught wind of that? Is that the reason they feel it will be hard to gain sponsorship? Again, just speculation on my part, but it IS getting pretty late to answer those questions.

[ducatti748]

Atlantics is still the best form of open wheel racing in this country. Prior to that it was super vee. look how many drivers came out of that form. Forgot a Canadian driver from your Atlantic list...Claude B.

I'm not sure what super vee had to do with Atlantics but no matter. Gilles Villeneuve was clearly the most significant Canadian driver to have emerged from Atlantics. The mid 1970s fields were simply amazing, especially at Trois Rivieres where the promoters brought in F1 drivers for the weekend to spice up the event. Could you imagine such a thing today? Joining series regulars Villeneuve and Keke Rosberg were F1 stars James Hunt, Jacques Lafitte, Patrick Depailler, Alan Jones and Vittorio Brambilla. Of course, Bobby Rahal and Canadian Bill Brack weren't to be discounted either! All raced Atlantics at "Le Circuit". It was Gilles' defeat of Hunt at Trois Rivieres in 1976 that launched his F1 career. Great times with wonderful memories for those of us lucky enough to be there. I must be showing my age.....

[Jimmy Magnusson]

ANOTHER FACTUAL ERROR !!

My friend, my dear dear friend....
You forget
CCWS may have stated a winners purse but it was NEVER PAID!
SO....what is half of nothing?
I believe the under the breath talk around the garages by those with any business accumen was " why are the Atlantic guys getting checks and we aren't, whot gives eh ?"

They may have been short changed several times a year for a number of years but the Atlantics did have a lawyer that wasn't connected to the "control group", enough said.

For my money Atlantics provide MORE excitement per minute of track time than any other profesional series anywhere on pavement and you KNOW what I mean.
IF I was King :eek: Atlantics would have another 100 horse and narrower tires AND be the formula for F-1 with lesser horsed cars as "ladder series" rides.
ONE TUB would work from beginer to F-1 and there would only be one series world wide ATLANTICS matriculation thru mastery of greater HP cars with increasingly narrower tires and possibly greater ground effect appendages.
COSTS would drop like lead and everyone would have a clear path with known costs upfront and reliable long term equipment...start and finish in the same series. Why have so many dirvergent paths to an enevitable end anyway, it happens to work for the taxi guys...sort of.

Really? I tried watching some Atlantics races last year, but they were so dull I almost fell asleep. Compare it to series like British Formula 3, now that's quality entertainment.

[garyshell]

Really? I tried watching some Atlantics races last year, but they were so dull I almost fell asleep. Compare it to series like British Formula 3, now that's quality entertainment.


I tried watching some British Formula 3 last year, but couldn't get my cable or rabbit ears to pull in a decent signal... Hell, I couldn't get them to pull in ANY signal.

Gary

[pvtjoker]

Didn't Scott Dixon and Mario Dominquez come from Indy Lights? I know of others that ran in CART/CCWS that were good Drivers as well

Yep, so did Tony Kanaan, Greg Moore, Jimmy Vasser, PJ Jones, Cristiano Da Matta Adrian Fernandez, Casey Mears, Tony Renna, Oriol Servia, Stan Fox, Patrick Carpentier, Dan Wheldon and Helio Castroneves...All vets of Indy Lights and all VERY GOOD drivers IMO.

[pvtjoker]

Except the IPS and Indy Lights have one common element, both fail to really develop driver talent.

IMO, you're sadly mistakened. See my list above.

[garyshell]

IMO, you're sadly mistakened. See my list above.


Yes I agree with you. I do, however, think that there are far too few of the graduates from these series moving up the ladder. Instead they are moving to other series. There was a day that the champion of the feeder series was pretty much assured of a ride i the big league the following year. Sadly, now that is not the norm at all.

Gary

[pits4me]

IMO, you're sadly mistakened. See my list above.

Talk to the drivers. The Atlantic's ground effects are often compared to major league formula like Champ Car. Ideally driving in both like Wheldon did is a perfect situation.

[nigelred5]

The problem I always saw with Indy lights was you went from a ground effects chassis in atlantics, to a flat bottomed, wing dependent Lights, then back to a ground effects Champcar. Maybe it was good experience, but I definitely recall more than one driver remarking that the cars were so different to set up that you almost got lost in the time spent in lights, so more and more drivers started looking to jump straight from Atlantics to Champcars.

[pits4me]

That was the point I was making Nigel. Atlantics did more to DEVELOP drivers skills than either lights or IPS. Buddy Rice learned his oval racing in Atlantics.

[Dave Brock]

That was the point I was making Nigel. Atlantics did more to DEVELOP drivers skills than either lights or IPS. Buddy Rice learned his oval racing in Atlantics.

And the point I didn't come right out and focus on!
Not that I am in love with Buddy.
By the time the boys from Brazil had achieved bigtime status I had lost part of my interest in them because they had proven themselves worthy so long before their arrival when I watched them run in series' that didn't have a ceiling like the top does.

[BenRoethig]

That was the point I was making Nigel. Atlantics did more to DEVELOP drivers skills than either lights or IPS. Buddy Rice learned his oval racing in Atlantics.


That's the reason I said their should be a two tier system. First step is an intermediate step from either sprints or a lower tier road racing series where they learn intermediate ovals, super speedways and road racing skills. Next step is advanced training that is closer to the size and power of the Indycars. The last decade or so has featured a lot of drivers who weren't ready forced into a ride because of both attrition to NASCAR and the need for filler teams to inflate both grids.

[pits4me]

Atlantics never ran superspeedways (unless they ran the ROVAL).

[BenRoethig]

They ran Homestead plus the 1 milers at Milwaukee and East St. Louis.

I tried watching some British Formula 3 last year
Gary

Gary, if you get the opportunity, watch the F3 EuroSeries. That is where most of the talent seems to be now.

British F3 doesn't really have the strength-in-depth that it used to.

[garyshell]

Gary, if you get the opportunity, watch the F3 EuroSeries. That is where most of the talent seems to be now.

British F3 doesn't really have the strength-in-depth that it used to.


Since SpeedChannel became SpeedTV and really the NASCAR and Pinks channel there has been virtually no, for lack of a better term, "alternative" racing available to viewers in the US. We used to get some DTM, and even German "big rig" trucks racing and all manner of other "alternative" racing. But now all we get is endless reruns of Pinks, Pinks All Out, NOPI tuners, pimp my ride crap and 8 thousand variants of Nascar programming. Sigh.

I do have access to an "off the radar torrent" site that provides some feeds, I'll look there for some coverage.


Gary

[cartpix]

Since SpeedChannel became SpeedTV and really the NASCAR and Pinks channel there has been virtually no, for lack of a better term, "alternative" racing available to viewers in the US. We used to get some DTM, and even German "big rig" trucks racing and all manner of other "alternative" racing. But now all we get is endless reruns of Pinks, Pinks All Out, NOPI tuners, pimp my ride crap and 8 thousand variants of Nascar programming. Sigh.

I do have access to an "off the radar torrent" site that provides some feeds, I'll look there for some coverage.


Gary

You forgot about World Rally Championship. Boy I used to love that, on Sunday nights.

Jeff

[weeflyonthewall]

I still have my RPM2NIGHT mug but even ESPN2 lacks racing coverage anymore. What is a motorhead to do these days?

[Skid Marx]

Yep, so did Tony Kanaan, Greg Moore, Jimmy Vasser, PJ Jones, Cristiano Da Matta Adrian Fernandez, Casey Mears, Tony Renna, Oriol Servia, Stan Fox, Patrick Carpentier, Dan Wheldon and Helio Castroneves...All vets of Indy Lights and all VERY GOOD drivers IMO.

When did Jimmy Vasser run Indy Lights? He won the Atlantic Championship in 1991, moved up to CART in 1992 with Hayhoe Racing. I don't recall him ever running Indy Lights.

[pits4me]

Atlantics never ran superspeedways (unless they ran the ROVAL).

They ran Homestead plus the 1 milers at Milwaukee and East St. Louis.

They ran both the oval and the Road-Oval course at Homestead. Also The Mile at West Allis, Nazareth, and Gateway. These tracks are not superspeedways like Michigan and Fontana.

[pits4me]

I agree with Bob. I think you'll see them end up in the IPS.

Why? Sierra Sierra is a mature Atlantics team from a team standpoint. The IPS series offers a more powerful car that is a better match to the CURRENT ICS challenges from a team standpoint.

The move also brings up some questions, however. It has been rumored that the Atlantics will run under an ALMS sanction going forward, but that is not confirmed just yet, AFAIK. Has there been some fly in the ointment of that arrangement, and have Kottke or Raeder caught wind of that? Is that the reason they feel it will be hard to gain sponsorship? Again, just speculation on my part, but it IS getting pretty late to answer those questions.

Unless teams are given incentive they won't make the move. Especially after shelling out money for the new Swifts two years ago.

Nobody has confirmed Sierra Sierra is qualified for the $3m ICS package either.

[Madmonk]

The Atlantics are the best open wheel racing series in America. If there was any sense in the world, Indycar would scrap IPS and adopt the Atlantics as their primary feeder series.

[SoCalPVguy]

The Atlantics are the best open wheel racing series in America..

Proof please; or learn the term "IMO"

[weeflyonthewall]

The Atlantics are the best open wheel racing series in America. If there was any sense in the world, Indycar would scrap IPS and adopt the Atlantics as their primary feeder series.

Atlantic's are recognized as the best open wheel development series. "Development" being the operative word. IPS will never be scrapped like Indy Lights. TG is determined to keep the IPS as the window to drive in the IRL ICS.


Proof please; or learn the term "IMO"

2008 isn't presenting the best circumstances for Atlantic's to be celebrating their 35th anniversary. Let's hope Vicki and her management team can recover and get things sorted.

[garyshell]

Atlantic's are recognized as the best open wheel development series. "Development" being the operative word. IPS will never be scrapped like Indy Lights. TG is determined to keep the IPS as the window to drive in the IRL ICS.



2008 isn't presenting the best circumstances for Atlantic's to be celebrating their 35th anniversary. Let's hope Vicki and her management team can recover and get things sorted.


A note of perspective on Atlantics vs. the IPS series. I have a friend who's son races in the IPS. They really wanted to run Atlantics but the costs were signifcantly different. The biggest issue for them was engines. Apparently the IPS engines are good for three or more races, where the Atlantics require a rebuild after each race. He also said the rebuild cost for each were substantially different. I forget the specific numbers he threw out, we were at a funeral that had stunned us both and the numbers floated by in the fog of that sad day. I'll get in touch with him though and report back.

Gary

[pvtjoker]

Talk to the drivers. The Atlantic's ground effects are often compared to major league formula like Champ Car. Ideally driving in both like Wheldon did is a perfect situation.

pits, you'll get no argument from me that the Atlantics is/was a great proven ground for finding new talent. Just think what CC/CART would have been if they allowed some of that talent to get rides (ex. Wheldon, Rice, etc.)! That said, I was merely pointing out that Indy Lights showcased some great talent as well.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Gary, if you get the opportunity, watch the F3 EuroSeries. That is where most of the talent seems to be now.

British F3 doesn't really have the strength-in-depth that it used to.

That may be, but Euroseries is boring and BF3 entertaining. Gary, here's a link for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07brj2y0CYE&feature=related

That's part 1 of the Donington round. There's more videos in the "related" box, and a search for "British F3 2007" should give you even more.

[Dave Brock]

A note of perspective on Atlantics vs. the IPS series. I have a friend ( who ) wanted to run Atlantics but the costs were signifcantly different......
( He ) said the rebuild cost for each were substantially different.
I'll get in touch with him though and report back.

Gary

Gary...
no matter what the cost of THOSE PARTICULAR engines was/is, an engine can be made that will last as long as you want at an affordable price.
For example, take the Pontiac 4 that became the holy grail in USAC Midgets not so long ago, for less than 5 bigones you could by a crate motor that neded only the attention you could give it in a trailer between shows, no machine shop! Some of those motors went 2 or more seasons with little more than oil/oberg, hoses & gasket changes. One carowner like to brag that the motor hadn't been out of the car in 3yrs.

Graduated Atalantics as I propposed HERE (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=437317#post437317) would only utilize the
"ultra tweeked needs daily teardown & expensive as hell" High Output motors.

Run stock motors in the 1st step cars with wide tires on dirt & ltd. pavement shows.
Decrease the tire width & INCREASE the HP in each succeding step upward for a 7 step ladder to the top rung, as the top is approached the new tech cars that are more begin to show up, below the 3rd step all that is available are older chassis that are cheaper & more plentiful and NEED to be run out due to age. Matriculation UP for drivers , teams & support people, matriculation DOWN for equipment from chassis to haulers & quads.
Common sense, money and the resulting increase in participation all dictate that this would not only WORK...it NEEDS to be instituted in order to maintain the future of the sport w/o the addiction to SPONSORS MONEY which is fickle and consumes far too much effort, time and specialists to find and keep.

Sleep on it :cool:

[Hauts-de-Seine]

what will do Sierra Sierre in 2008 ??? IPS, IndyCar or other ??