MC: "Merger appears to kill ...Portland race..."

[roger dodger]

C'mon, I realize that you've backed CCWS and all, but isn't that a bit of a negative spin? There will be casualties, but the bottom line is this, and nearly everyone understands this now. The only way for OW to make it is under one roof. That will result in some casualties for sure. But let's hope for the day when venues start bidding for OW races the way they do for NASCAR races now. I'm sorry about Portland, but your headline is a bit too bitter for the moment. IMHO.

The merger didn't kill Portland, it saved OW. Sorry, but true.

[PA Rick]

Boy am I happy since you put the positive spin on the series merger (?). Now we can watch the Texas speedway and Kansas speedway and any number of other cookie cutter 1.5 mile triovals. And for this to survive all we had to lose was Portland and Cleveland and Toronto.

[Ranger]

I agree with Roger. As a news outlet, AR1 does seem rather partial at times.

Track axing's are necessary evils that can be repared later, when one series becomes solidly grounded.

[SoCalPVguy]

Nobody went, it was poorly promoted and if you remember back a while it was CC that wanted out of Portland not the other way around.

[bblocker68]

Well, hopefully the IndyCar World Series can try to include all of the former CART tracks in the coming years.

[roger dodger]

Boy am I happy since you put the positive spin on the series merger (?). Now we can watch the Texas speedway and Kansas speedway and any number of other cookie cutter 1.5 mile triovals. And for this to survive all we had to lose was Portland and Cleveland and Toronto.


Understand. There are much better (and safer) ow tracks, like those mentioned above. But that's clearly not the point on the day when OW is one again after many frustrating years.

It reminds me of the story of an elephant raging towards a village. The people and the village were all in danger and surely there was to be damage to homes and shops and such. A young brave boy grabs a gun, shoots and frightens the elephant ehttp://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/misc/clear.gifnough so that he avoids the town. All the people are saved but one goof wants an investigation on how a boy was able to grab a gun in the town in the first place.

Do you see what I mean. Yes, you may watch a few races at KC and Texas, but under the current circumstances, how much longer would you have seen any racing in the venues you mentioned. Sorry but the elephant of low ratings, low car counts and honestly low American interest would have threatened CC for good.

The article should have been entitled. Portland may lose race in light of merger" or "Portland to lose race." It cites the fact without laying blame to the "merger." The merger did not "kill" Portland. The fact that nobody cared about OW in Portland (or very few did) killed it and even so, who cares on this day of days?

[Phoenixent]

Nobody went, it was poorly promoted and if you remember back a while it was CC that wanted out of Portland not the other way around.

I agree with you SoCal. But is funny that a few years ago the IRL was trying to get Portland and Cleveland as part of the race schedule. They will be back if they want to ante up on their promotions and rebuild the track.

[Danimal]

I was Not going to post again, but I saw this link and had to look...........and here was SoCalPVGuy, Who, I have read many of post from them, and they seem intelligent and business savy......................The Only thing I see wrong, is that, and I may be Wrong, but I do not think SoCalVPGuy has A: Ever Known Tony George on a personal level, nor has SoCalVPGuy Ever Known ANY Of The Champ Car Owners on a personal level, .......... AND B: I do Not believe SoCalVPGuy understands how these men think! And knowing these men, would probably give you some insight on why this keeps dragging on! As I said, "I may be wrong"...........

I tried to express this in another post, but I was pretty much told that I was wrong, and that is fine!

These men do not care about the heritage of open wheel racing, nor do they care about the fans! They care about black amex cards, gulf stream jets, and primarily themselves!

But honestly.....Friday, Tony George asked Champ Car owners to sign a document to never run another open wheel series in north america, that is called a non compete contract. As I told a good friend of mine, it is not in anyone's best interest to sign a non compete contract unless you are already a billionaire or it is a $100 mil buyout!

This thing is very simple actually, but when you are a contol freak, you want things your way or no way........and there is nothing simple with that!

Racing is not a my way or no way sport...........Thats why NASCAR has succeded and open wheel has not!

Call Scott Atherton from ALMS and he could lend some advice as to reviving open wheel racing, just like he did sports car racing! Actually offer him the job to make the "Indy Car World Series" the "fastest racing series on the planet" again!

When People See The Deal Done, Probably Finalized By Homestead Testing, I Am Afraid People Will Not Be Happy..............

[SoCalPVguy]

I was Not going to post again, but I saw this link and had to look...........and here was SoCalPVGuy, Who, I have read many of post from them, and they seem intelligent and business savy......................The Only thing I see wrong, is that, and I may be Wrong, but I do not think SoCalVPGuy has A: Ever Known Tony George on a personal level, nor has SoCalVPGuy Ever Known ANY Of The Champ Car Owners on a personal level, .......... AND B: I do Not believe SoCalVPGuy understands how these men think! And knowing these men, would probably give you some insight on why this keeps dragging on! As I said, "I may be wrong"........... I tried to express this in another post, but I was pretty much told that I was wrong, and that is fine!

I almost feel guilty telling you are wrong about who I know and how I know them.



These men do not care about the heritage of open wheel racing, nor do they care about the fans!

But here you are right - and it was this lack of knowledge of racing heritage and frankly an arrogant distain for the fans b the amigos that lead to the early demise of CCWS. Posssibly if approached differently, CCWS would have been more successful and a merger of equals from a position of strength, not weakness, could have occurred and they could have dictated a more favorable combination of equipment, tracks, schedule, etc...

[BenRoethig]

Boy am I happy since you put the positive spin on the series merger (?). Now we can watch the Texas speedway and Kansas speedway and any number of other cookie cutter 1.5 mile triovals. And for this to survive all we had to lose was Portland and Cleveland and Toronto.

For 2008 a least. The IRL has binding contracts to hold the races on its schedule on the date agreed upon. They may be changed only a mutual agreement to cancel or change the date, the venue/promoter not living up to the agreement (i.e. not paying), or by an act of God.

[champ car dave]

This is going to be an F'ed up season. However I wasn't planning on going to Milwaukee this year beacuse of how bad the last two CC races were but I may go this year. The Milw Race is a lot more exciting with more cars on the grid.

I wouldn't worry I think Toronto, RA and maybe Cleveland will be on the sked next year. With any luck they may drop the Glen and Sonoma.

Remember RA and Toronto are two raced TG did want to add to the IRL Sked at one time or another.

[Danimal]

Ok SoCalVPGuy............I call your bluff............ You said you feel guilty saying how you know people............Well I stated I may be wrong, as to who you know, but you stated that you feel guilty as to who you know and how you know them! Why feel guilty? This is why I never posted, because of fake people! If you arent fake, then I guess I will see you in Sebring for spring training, after I get back from the west coast swing of the NASCAR schedule! Feel free to contact me........I will be there! Thanks!

[FlatChatRacer]

Danimal,

I may have mis-understood your post.

However, are you saying that now that Tony George has control of AOWR, he will choose the circuits that suit his personal vision of what an American Open Wheel series should be and possibly ignore natural road circuits like Road America, Laguna Seca, Portland, Sebring, Road Atlanta, etc?

Also, that he may now tend to ignore the wishes of the team owners and fans?

I apologise if the above is a misinterpretation of what you alluding to.

[BenRoethig]

Portland and Road America will be back in '09

[SoCalPVguy]

Ok SoCalVPGuy............I call your bluff............ You said you feel guilty saying how you know people............Well I stated I may be wrong, as to who you know, but you stated that you feel guilty as to who you know and how you know them! Why feel guilty? This is why I never posted, because of fake people! If you arent fake, then I guess I will see you in Sebring for spring training, after I get back from the west coast swing of the NASCAR schedule! Feel free to contact me........I will be there! Thanks!

Why are you on my case ? I've never attacked you in any post in any thread. I will just state you don't know the first thing about me and I intend it to stay that way.

Please stick to the topic of the thead re. Future of Portland venue. Starter, how about some help here...

[SoCalPVguy]

Portland and Road America will be back in '09


Is that a fact you can support; or another "IMO" ?

[jarrambide]

Is that a fact you can support; or another "IMO" ?

Probably he almost feels guilty of telling you how he can prove it ;)

[Henry Cutts]

I Hope Portland gets back on the calandar its always a good race.

[Miatanut]

Nobody went, it was poorly promoted and if you remember back a while it was CC that wanted out of Portland not the other way around.

"Nobody went", after Saturday was a monsoon and Sunday was dicey, yet Portland still had higher attendance than the supposedly big hit Mont Tremblant. In addition, somebody had the infinite wisdom to schedule it on Rose Festival parade weekend. Rose Festival parade weekend always rains, plus it absorbs the casual fans needed to make the thing work. Two years ago, with decent weather, attendance was up considerably from the year before.

Portland suffered from such poor promotion that hotel concierges didn't know there was a race in town on race weekend. If it had been a Lanigan deal, the story would have been entirely different.

[Canada Cornrow]

This is going to be an F'ed up season. However I wasn't planning on going to Milwaukee this year beacuse of how bad the last two CC races were but I may go this year. The Milw Race is a lot more exciting with more cars on the grid.

I wouldn't worry I think Toronto, RA and maybe Cleveland will be on the sked next year. With any luck they may drop the Glen and Sonoma.

Remember RA and Toronto are two raced TG did want to add to the IRL Sked at one time or another.



I sure hope you're right. They're the two best temporary circuits and the best natural road course in North America IMO. I'm also going to the Mile this year. With a bigger field it should be a much better race, and will hopefully make up for the loss of RA this year.

[SoCalPVguy]

"Nobody went", after Saturday was a monsoon and Sunday was dicey, yet Portland still had higher attendance than the supposedly big hit Mont Tremblant. In addition, somebody had the infinite wisdom to schedule it on Rose Festival parade weekend. Rose Festival parade weekend always rains, plus it absorbs the casual fans needed to make the thing work. Two years ago, with decent weather, attendance was up considerably from the year before. Portland suffered from such poor promotion that hotel concierges didn't know there was a race in town on race weekend. If it had been a Lanigan deal, the story would have been entirely different.

If poor weather was a consistent factor,maybe it was scheduled during the wrong time of the year. The last time I went it rained on and off prior to the race, up to just before green flag time. Agree ultimatley it was poorly promoted.

As for tremblant, you're right that it was even more poorly attended than portland and as a result (one could say "nobody went" there either...LOL), Tremblant isn't in the future for Indy car either from what I can tell.

[Roninho]

my best guess would be that the only race that really is 'axed' forever is Cleveland, because of all the troubles one would have to get through to get the permissions to run on an airport.

All other tracks can get back on the schedule in the future when a promoter is found willing to pay the fee.

I think we will see a lot of changes on the schedule in the next few years, with former cc-events as well as former irl-events (because of the 'unification') trying to get back in, either as an addition to the schedule or as a replacement of current events.

As for MC and his site: i don't think there are many people who qualify that as serious 'neutral' journalism.

[nigelred5]

I'm not sure there IS a RIGHT time to schedule a race in Portland Weather wise. That's just the nature of the NorthWest. It's a road course, they run in rain. problem? Maybe a covered grandstand would be in order for the fans??
The current stands aren't that large. I have warehouses around here that half of the roof would cover the entire grandstand area and a huge fan paddock. It could be done.

[nigelred5]

I'm not sure there IS a RIGHT time to schedule a race in Portland Weather wise. That's just the nature of the NorthWest. It's a road course, they run in rain. problem? Maybe a covered grandstand would be in order for the fans??
The current stands aren't that large. I have warehouses around here that half of the roof would cover the entire grandstand area and a huge fan paddock. It could be done.

I have to disagree with the opinion on Cleveland somewhat though. It's in the heart of the traditional fan base, it's one of the longest running events in the series, TG TRIED to steal it away from Champcar on more than one occasion and it's been a popular well attended event. Cleveland and Mid Ohio co-existed for years. Portland has location and the fact that it's a permanent venue. I think Kentucky Speedway is the wildcard in that situation. It is A well attended event and essentially makes three events(albeit different) in Ohio. That being said, it will ultimately be up to a promoter that has to bear the brunt of the construction cost if Cleveland is to survive. Lots of factors to weigh on both sides for both events, however I do have to agree, I doubt both events will have an open wheel future.

[Miatanut]

I'm not sure there IS a RIGHT time to schedule a race in Portland Weather wise. That's just the nature of the NorthWest. It's a road course, they run in rain. problem? Maybe a covered grandstand would be in order for the fans??
The current stands aren't that large. I have warehouses around here that half of the roof would cover the entire grandstand area and a huge fan paddock. It could be done..

In a typical year, sometime about a week either side of July 10th, the clouds go away and don't come back until early September, except for a nice thunderstorm somewhere around mid-August. IMSA used to run an August date, and the only race I've ever been to (among MANY rain races at PIR), where the race got red flagged due to monsoon conditions was at an IMSA race in the early '90's. It can happen. The batting average for late July through August is a lot better, though. The date they had picked for this year would have been a good one. The Vancouver race used to be on Labor Day weekend, and I don't remember one that wasn't beautiful. Same for when they moved it to earlier in the summer.