Bad start to "marriage", Motegi & LB to run separately at same time ?

[SoCalPVguy]

According to Speed TV article by Robin Miller:

\Separate races to be run in LB and Motegi Unless there’s a last-minute intervention by the gods of reason, the IRL race at Motegi, Japan will run April 19 as scheduled and the 33rd annual Long Beach Grand Prix will take the green flag on April 20. And both races will count towards the 2008 IRL championship.

That’s correct. The regular IRL teams will be on the oval in Japan with their Dallara-Hondas while the Champ Car teams that are expected to compete full time in the unified series will be running their Panoz-Cosworths for the final time. Drivers will earn equal IRL points in each event.

Apparently, this bizarre doubleheader in different parts of the world was the only compromise that could be reached to accommodate both sides. Long Beach is land-locked into its date and obviously must keep its tradition going in order to secure a new, longer contract. More at SPEEDTV.com (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/champ-car-irl-deal-on-final-approach/)
\

They expect us to pay full price to see about 12 cars go one last time. Puts former CCWS teams further behind in preparing a Dallara for remaining races... Crazy, man !!! If true I'd boycott LB GP this year, who needs THAT ?

[cartpix]

Interesting...

Jeff

[nigelred5]

According to Speed TV article by Robin Miller:

\Separate races to be run in LB and Motegi Unless there’s a last-minute intervention by the gods of reason, the IRL race at Motegi, Japan will run April 19 as scheduled and the 33rd annual Long Beach Grand Prix will take the green flag on April 20. And both races will count towards the 2008 IRL championship.

That’s correct. The regular IRL teams will be on the oval in Japan with their Dallara-Hondas while the Champ Car teams that are expected to compete full time in the unified series will be running their Panoz-Cosworths for the final time. Drivers will earn equal IRL points in each event.

Apparently, this bizarre doubleheader in different parts of the world was the only compromise that could be reached to accommodate both sides. Long Beach is land-locked into its date and obviously must keep its tradition going in order to secure a new, longer contract. More at SPEEDTV.com (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/champ-car-irl-deal-on-final-approach/)
\

They expect us to pay full price to see about 12 cars go one last time. Puts former CCWS teams further behind in preparing a Dallara for remaining races... Crazy, man !!! If true I'd boycott LB GP this year, who needs THAT ?


Why would they not run the Dallaras if they will have already run two races at Homestead and St Petersburg. They would already have a street course race under their belts and giving up track time from a third race would be stupid. The only reason I can see is they know that all of the CWS teams that already own the Panoz may not be making the switch and they are needed for car count. Stupid solution IMHO, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Maybe they can get a few Marquee guys from the IRL home from Japan in time to slot into a DP01?? It might help having a few more drivers lobbying for the DP-01 in the future.

[Phoenixent]

They expect us to pay full price to see about 12 cars go one last time. Puts former CCWS teams further behind in preparing a Dallara for remaining races... Crazy, man !!! If true I'd boycott LB GP this year, who needs THAT ?

If this is the last run for the DP01 I would expect more than 12 cars. I believe Long Beach contract requires 18 cars. Also why would the teams not run spare cars if Long Beach is the last Champ Car race. I am sure there are drivers and crews out there to field them for one race. As for equipment I don't know. We will have to just wait and see.

It would be a Great race if they did.

[gofastandwynn]

My thinking is that this is GF & PG's demand so that CC can have a last "hooray" and so PG has some cars to run. Am I happy with it? No. Can I live with it for the greater good? Yes.

Now the question come in where will the cars some from. If you do make the switch and need to learn the ovals. And remember Kansas is the next weekend so do you bring out the Panoz and go into Kansas behind in R&D or go to Japan? Do you have the budget to run another set of cars or make it cost effective? Can you possibly get some driver with Long Beach one-off sponsorship? Same goes for Japan (right now rumor is Roger Yasukawa is putting together a Motegi/Indy deal, Sarah Fisher will announce a partial schedule for her next week at Homestead, and D&R is still looking at a 2nd car and you have (sigh) Milka's money floating around...(sigh).

[clydekart]

According to Speed TV article by Robin Miller:

\Separate races to be run in LB and Motegi Unless there’s a last-minute intervention by the gods of reason, the IRL race at Motegi, Japan will run April 19 as scheduled and the 33rd annual Long Beach Grand Prix will take the green flag on April 20. And both races will count towards the 2008 IRL championship.

That’s correct. The regular IRL teams will be on the oval in Japan with their Dallara-Hondas while the Champ Car teams that are expected to compete full time in the unified series will be running their Panoz-Cosworths for the final time. Drivers will earn equal IRL points in each event.

Apparently, this bizarre doubleheader in different parts of the world was the only compromise that could be reached to accommodate both sides. Long Beach is land-locked into its date and obviously must keep its tradition going in order to secure a new, longer contract. More at SPEEDTV.com (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/champ-car-irl-deal-on-final-approach/)
\

They expect us to pay full price to see about 12 cars go one last time. Puts former CCWS teams further behind in preparing a Dallara for remaining races... Crazy, man !!! If true I'd boycott LB GP this year, who needs THAT ?

This seems like a final slap in the face to the fans if this is true. Why would a CC fan attend, knowing that this race means northing to CC.
Also, there is no way they will have 18 cars to run, as stated before many CC teams won't be going to irl, so why help the irl.
Also look for protest signs etc.---something irl doesn't need.
I wonder what kind of genious thought this plan up?

[Nikki Katz]

Yeah, I can't see all 16 CC or so cars making the IRL after the merger, so any Long Beach race would have to have a number of one-off drives in order for the car count to not look ridiculous. I think it's more likely that Long Beach would be cancelled for a year.

[gofastandwynn]

Also look for protest signs etc.---something irl doesn't need.
I wonder what kind of genious thought this plan up?

What do you have to protest against? You lost and you teams are getting a very fair offer to them to survive.

And has for who thought this up, it reeks of Paul Gentlozzi, after all he puts on 2 Trans Am races at Heartland Park every year right before runoffs full of GT-1 cars so say the Trans Am is still alive...

Although it could be someone who spells it "genious". HA!

[F1boat]

This will beat the 2005 US Grand Prix. Complete farce.

[BradCA1]

Here's an idea.

All of the big boys run Motegi as scheduled.

Long Beach can run ALMS on Sunday and some combination doubleheader of IPS/Atlantics on Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning.

[Alfa Fan]

Well if you were a champ car team, then surely just enter Motegi instead of Long Beach? Nothing to stop you doing that is there? This won't happen.

[RacinRandy]

Let's see...........

16 cars racing in Motegi and 8 cars running in Long Beach.

Why would any former CC teams who are not competing in the IRL season waste their time?

I hope some of the best teams go to ALMS, the best high tech racing left in this country!

[bennybigb]

Let's see...........


I hope some of the best teams go to ALMS, the best high tech racing left in this country!

I agree RacinRandy.

Let's hope a majority of the ChampCar teams enter the ALMS in 2008. Let's also hope the ALMS takes over some of the great race venues ChampCar will be leaving behind.

ChampCar might be dead, but the IRL is still the same POS series it always was.

[clydekart]

What do you have to protest against? You lost and you teams are getting a very fair offer to them to survive.

And has for who thought this up, it reeks of Paul Gentlozzi, after all he puts on 2 Trans Am races at Heartland Park every year right before runoffs full of GT-1 cars so say the Trans Am is still alive...

Although it could be someone who spells it "genious". HA!

HA! I added the "O" for you Oval fans.

[gofastandwynn]

HA! I added the "O" for you Oval fans.

"It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever" - David St. Hubbins

And you didn't answer my question...

[garyshell]

What do you have to protest against? You lost and you teams are getting a very fair offer to them to survive.

We ALL lost. It wasn't just the clydekart who lost. If you were ever a fan of CART and or ChampCar, you lost too. And if you were not, then why ARE you here?

And another point, clydecart never said HE would be protesting. And yet YOU had to make it personal. Why? As I have said many times in the past couple of weeks, it's fence mendin' time. It is NOT poke someone in the eye time. But that seems to been your favorite sport around here for a very long time, so I guess I am pissin' in the wind to think that might change now.


Oh, BTW, "Mr. Spelling expert" you teams should be your teams.

Gary

[gofastandwynn]

We ALL lost. It wasn't just the clydekart who lost. If you were ever a fan of CART and or ChampCar, you lost too. And if you were not, then why ARE you here?

And another point, clydecart never said HE would be protesting. And yet YOU had to make it personal. Why? As I have said many times in the past couple of weeks, it's fence mendin' time. It is NOT poke someone in the eye time. But that seems to been your favorite sport around here for a very long time, so I guess I am pissin' in the wind to think that might change now.


Oh, BTW, "Mr. Spelling expert" you teams should be your teams.

Gary

Fine, what do "those of you who are planning to protest" have to protest about? If I was overly directed to clyde then I apologize.

Garry, I have no problem with fence mending, and I will say right now I will buy anyone in here a beer during 500 weekend at Camp & Brew. But I am not going to go out of my way to mend fences with people who don't want it. As I said before for sanguin, or any of the other CCF'ers, if you are not going to give the new series a chance and move on and stop trying to ruin things for those of us who are because of your bitter hatred from 13 years ago.

Want to mend fences everybody? Stop with the crapwagon, stop with the FTG. Then I will mend fences with everybody, but I don't them stopping any time soon.

[bblocker68]

Mr. Gof*** has nothing left to do but come here and play with his friends.

Oops, I forgot. He has no friends :)

Reply all you want, but it comes on deaf ears. I've had you blocked for years. (Hey, I rhymed!)

[Nick Brad]

Yeah, I can't see all 16 CC or so cars making the IRL after the merger, so any Long Beach race would have to have a number of one-off drives in order for the car count to not look ridiculous. I think it's more likely that Long Beach would be cancelled for a year.


Long Beach can't be cancelled, that's the point!!!!!!!!!

It's one of those events that is planned months beforehand and the contract is locked, they'd be calling for millions in compensation if the race doesn't go ahead. What makes me all laugh is that I've read loads of posts here with people saying they won't switch to IRL and yet, with one last chance to see Champ car in action, it's being called a farce. :rolleyes: I'd have thought this race would be embraced, but shows how much I know.

[bblocker68]

The race will go on, no matter what. If anything, they'd move ALMS to Sunday and have CC Atlantics on Saturday with the Celebrity race. They may even bring in Star Mazda or something.

[Cart750hp]

According to Speed TV article by Robin Miller:

\Separate races to be run in LB and Motegi Unless there’s a last-minute intervention by the gods of reason, the IRL race at Motegi, Japan will run April 19 as scheduled and the 33rd annual Long Beach Grand Prix will take the green flag on April 20. And both races will count towards the 2008 IRL championship.

That’s correct. The regular IRL teams will be on the oval in Japan with their Dallara-Hondas while the Champ Car teams that are expected to compete full time in the unified series will be running their Panoz-Cosworths for the final time. Drivers will earn equal IRL points in each event.

Apparently, this bizarre doubleheader in different parts of the world was the only compromise that could be reached to accommodate both sides. Long Beach is land-locked into its date and obviously must keep its tradition going in order to secure a new, longer contract. More at SPEEDTV.com (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/champ-car-irl-deal-on-final-approach/)
\

They expect us to pay full price to see about 12 cars go one last time. Puts former CCWS teams further behind in preparing a Dallara for remaining races... Crazy, man !!! If true I'd boycott LB GP this year, who needs THAT ?

SoCal, you have to understand that Long Beach/Motegi issue is something that fell because of this new series. Obviously, the short of time given to all parties involved is the main cause why this isn't likely to get fixed in time. Like I was thinking that the time was too short to get it right for 2008, I believe even 2009. So, for me, 2008 is a draft of this two series, 2009 will be the introduction and 2010 and beyond will be much better.

Now for those who thinks CC could've survived if they continue on? The amigos couldn't spend more money to keep it up and the teams have lost faith in management that there's no way CC could continue on; waste of money and waste of time. I believe TG was the only person who's willing to take over and because he has Indy500, save the series. It would be much harder for CC again if KK/GF/PG/DP sold the series to some rich guy who couldn't get along with TG. So the things are: either let's do it now or we'll do it some other time. It's CC's call.

[SoCalPVguy]

Bad feeling about this... "IF" I was a (former) CC Team owner, I'd get my Dallara now and race at Motgei to get an earlier leg up on the car and the competition, would not chase good money after bad and race a dead duck program 1 last time at LB. I cannot see but a few cars at LB.

I think your are right - It will be come something like the IROC == whereby Forsythe and Paulie G-string (as teh last CCWS hangers-on) get all the old Panoz's from the other teams, set them up equally (not too equally mind you, PG needs some advantage) and let all the "rent-a-race ride buyers" - hopefully there will be more than 12 of them - have it out on the streets of Long Beach.

If so, what a rip off !!!

[Dalon]

If this crazy plan comes to be, the ChampCar guys won't run Motegi.

Why should they? Why would they? They're not crazy. NO team, IRL or ChampCar is going to WANT to go to Motegi.

The advantages of running Long Beach for the ChampCar teams:
1. If they go to Long Beach, they'll have a MASSIVELY better chance of scoring points.
2. Their mostly US sponsors will get to wine and dine their customers at the showcase US Event.
3. Long Beach is the "monaco" of US open wheel racing. It's the best place to bring prospective sponsors and get them to sign sponsor contracts. All the hollywood stars, all the money. In this, it may even be a better venue than Indy.
4. And the biggest factor, the ChampCar teams will actually have an honest chance of winning a race at Long Beach. They will have ZERO chance of winning Motegi.

And you know what, those second and third points would make it really tempting for the IRL teams to run Long Beach instead of Motegi.

Which is why if this stuipd, crazy plan comes to pass, the teams probably won't be given a choice.

My strong suspicion is that the ChampCar teams will be forced to go to Long Beach, and the IRL teams will be forced to go to Motegi. If some teams want to send extra cars to the other race, they may be allowed. But only if they send their primary cars and drivers to their assigned event.

If teams aren't forced to go, one of the races is going to suffer a mass defection of teams. I can almost guarantee that Motegi would be the victim here and lose most of the teams.

All the ChampCar and IRL teams want to run Long Beach. The only reason they go to Motegi is as a favor to Honda. So without a mandate from the IRL, I don't see Motegi even having enough cars to even run a race.

[CCFan]

The SPEEDTV article mentioned that the problem with moving Mogegi's date to the October time frame was that they wanted to pair it up with Surfer's, but the FIA says no other races in Japan for 6 weeks on either side of Suzuka (10/12/08).

However, Motegi isn't paired up with any other race in April. The IRL has open dates on Aug 3rd & Aug 17th, so why wouldn't one of those dates work? Does anyone know if Motegi has other commitments on those dates?

[cy bais]

it'll be sad to see the DP01s go.

[E5C4P3]

The SPEEDTV article mentioned that the problem with moving Mogegi's date to the October time frame was that they wanted to pair it up with Surfer's, but the FIA says no other races in Japan for 6 weeks on either side of Suzuka (10/12/08).

However, Motegi isn't paired up with any other race in April. The IRL has open dates on Aug 3rd & Aug 17th, so why wouldn't one of those dates work? Does anyone know if Motegi has other commitments on those dates?

The F1 race on 12 October 2008 is actually at Fuji and not Suzuka. Maybe this mistake in information could mean that this rumour is not true at all.

[E5C4P3]

it'll be sad to see the DP01s go.

I agree. However, we can hope that the new chasis in 2010 is better looking than the Dallara. I wish the IRL Panoz was more competitive since it is not a bad looking car. The Dallara is very ugly.

[Rudy Tamasz]

This is plain disgusting. And if the solution is as disgusting as the problem, I'm not sure it's a solution.

[Mark]

It would be a good opportunity for ChampCar teams to score points, and give them a little bit of a leg up in the championship, so why not.

I can't see the point in running ChampCar equipment tho, if they are going to be using IRL cars for the season why not run them at Long Beach too? They are going to need all the experience they can get.

[Rudy Tamasz]

What about fans? Do we need a castrated LBGP thrown at us like a bone to a dog? If you think fans were put off by the split, how many more will be put off by the way the 'unification' is done?

[Jimmy Magnusson]

You could run Motegi and Long Beach the same weekend successfully if you're willing to pay for it. To begin with, there is a 17-hour time difference between Japan and Long Beach. Firstly, move the Motegi race to the Saturday with a starting time of 14:00 local time (9 pm Friday LB time). If you hurry you could probably have everyone in the air three hours later, and then a 10-hour flight (at most) to LA. This means you touch down in the US about 10am Saturday. The American Le Mans Series should have finished up around 7pm, so add a 1-hour practice session here. Then have qualifying and any additional practice needed during the Sunday, and start the race at 4pm. What you do need is extra sets of mechanics and cars. The first part is doable if you have the money, and there's plenty of Dallaras kicking about.

[electron]

You could run Motegi and Long Beach the same weekend successfully if you're willing to pay for it. To begin with, there is a 17-hour time difference between Japan and Long Beach. Firstly, move the Motegi race to the Saturday with a starting time of 14:00 local time (9 pm Friday LB time). If you hurry you could probably have everyone in the air three hours later, and then a 10-hour flight (at most) to LA. This means you touch down in the US about 10am Saturday. The American Le Mans Series should have finished up around 7pm, so add a 1-hour practice session here. Then have qualifying and any additional practice needed during the Sunday, and start the race at 4pm. What you do need is extra sets of mechanics and cars. The first part is doable if you have the money, and there's plenty of Dallaras kicking about.

do really mean what you are suggesting?
This is the real expertise, mate.

I like the dog quote by Rudy. this is the way I would feel. If Honda is going to run the show, then so be it in Motegi for all I care. Just make it one series, I couldn't care less anymore...

[Lousada]

Isn't this also a NASCAR-off weekend? Way to show yourself to the public!

[Rex Monaco]

You lost and you teams are getting a very fair offer to them to survive.

You keep repeating this 'you lost' comment around the forum. And it makes you sound like a petty little girl (my apologies to little girls).

Just like the aftermath of a nuclear war, there are no 'winners' and 'losers' today. Everyone lost. And now that the war is over, everyone won.

The IRL is not healthy. That's why they are working very, VERY hard to ensure this deal happens this year.

My unedcuated but highly reasoned guess is that Honda threatened to pull out of the IRL in 2009, unless there was a unification. And that put the IRL plan to develop a new chassis into jeapordy.

If the IRL was truly healthy, then there is certainly enough damage that's been done to CCWS by this process alone that the IRL should be able to pull the deal off the table and wait until next year.

Instead of losers, all the fans of AOWR have won.

That is, unless you are a hardcore partisan. Then the health of AOWR takes second place to your blind petty partisanship.

And everyone knows, that in 5, 10, 15 or 20 years, when this new series is healthy, popular and making money, the teams are going to want some of it. It happened before, it happened in F1 and it will happen again here. Just mark the time.

[nigelred5]

I'm so friggin sick of the g-d FIA and their damned protectionist BS of F1. Honda knows WTF is going on in Japan and I'm sure they would love to steal tickets from Toyota's F1 race they stole from Honda. It's just the same BS as last year with Shanghai/Zuhai. Are they really that worried that an oval race in the mountains at Motegi is ANY threat to the attendance at Fugi OR Shanghai? The FIA, Max Mosely and Bernie simply hate Champcar/Indycar racing because it exposes the reality of what F1 really is, extortion.

[Chris R]

I'm so friggin sick of the g-d FIA and their damned protectionist BS of F1. Honda knows WTF is going on in Japan and I'm sure they would love to steal tickets from Toyota's F1 race they stole from Honda. It's just the same BS as last year with Shanghai/Zuhai. Are they really that worried that an oval race in the mountains at Motegi is ANY threat to the attendance at Fugi OR Shanghai? The FIA, Max Mosely and Bernie simply hate Champcar/Indycar racing because it exposes the reality of what F1 really is, extortion.

amen

[Chris R]

You keep repeating this 'you lost' comment around the forum. And it makes you sound like a petty little girl (my apologies to little girls).

Just like the aftermath of a nuclear war, there are no 'winners' and 'losers' today. Everyone lost. And now that the war is over, everyone won.

The IRL is not healthy. That's why they are working very, VERY hard to ensure this deal happens this year.

My unedcuated but highly reasoned guess is that Honda threatened to pull out of the IRL in 2009, unless there was a unification. And that put the IRL plan to develop a new chassis into jeapordy.

If the IRL was truly healthy, then there is certainly enough damage that's been done to CCWS by this process alone that the IRL should be able to pull the deal off the table and wait until next year.

Instead of losers, all the fans of AOWR have won.

That is, unless you are a hardcore partisan. Then the health of AOWR takes second place to your blind petty partisanship.

And everyone knows, that in 5, 10, 15 or 20 years, when this new series is healthy, popular and making money, the teams are going to want some of it. It happened before, it happened in F1 and it will happen again here. Just mark the time.

very well put - you took the words out of my mouth.... the symbolic winner of this whole mess is CART - because what we will have when this is all done is CART part deux with all of the risk resting on the shoulders of TG instead of the team owners....

[UDFlyer]

I'm hoping that Long Beach and Montegi run separately, and that they race the Champ Cars. That way I won't have to leave when the c-wagons take the track for their race. Not that I'm bitter. :)

[UDFlyer]

I agree. However, we can hope that the new chasis in 2010 is better looking than the Dallara. I wish the IRL Panoz was more competitive since it is not a bad looking car. The Dallara is very ugly.

Ugly to be sure - but does nice 360 end-over-end flips, though.

[jhumason]

...Instead of losers, all the fans of AOWR have won.

That is, unless you are a hardcore partisan. Then the health of AOWR takes second place to your blind petty partisanship...Disagree. The fans have not won. "We" are still saddled with loud, ugly and inferior cars, unsafe ovals, and dysfunctional series operators (convicted criminal Larry Curry preparing the cars? What is that about?) Plus several important venues will now disappear, removing fine events that many of us would have attended (RIP Road America and Toronto :( )

Therefore, your observation on the relative "health of AOWR" is invalid. In fact, it will be months or even years before we know if the combined series is indeed healthy. I think that is far from "blind" partisanship...these are real concerns, not "petty" ones.

[Dalon]

So now they're talking about 22 or 24 cars total, for the merged series.

How the hell are they going to run two races the same weekend with only 24 cars?

12 cars at each race? That's just silly.

[Rex Monaco]

Disagree. The fans have not won.

Fans of AOWR have indeed won.



"We" are still saddled with loud, ugly and inferior cars, unsafe ovals, and dysfunctional series operators (convicted criminal Larry Curry preparing the cars? What is that about?)

For the next couple of years. But nobody knows what the next engine and chassis formula will be there after.



Plus several important venues will now disappear, removing fine events that many of us would have attended (RIP Road America and Toronto :( )

Again, the future of the tracks is not completely known. Just this years schedule.



Therefore, your observation on the relative "health of AOWR" is invalid.

That's your opinion. And while you are certainly welcome to express that I am wrong and that you are right, you have not proven me wrong.



In fact, it will be months or even years before we know if the combined series is indeed healthy. I think that is far from "blind" partisanship...these are real concerns, not "petty" ones.

In fact, I agree that it will take years to rebuild the damage that was done when TG's ego lead him to single handedly destroy AOWR as we knew it.

But one sick patient is preferable to two dead ones, three if you count the death of CART that has already taken place.

So this partisan argument is really centered around, which entity succeeds the now dead and buried CART. None of them are CART, none of them will be CART. So my choice is which entity will ensure not only the survival of AOWR, but which will help it grow in the future. And that answer is the single entity that emerges from the ashes of this prolonged war.

[Shirk]

So now they're talking about 22 or 24 cars total, for the merged series.

How the hell are they going to run two races the same weekend with only 24 cars?

12 cars at each race? That's just silly.
The former Champ Car teams that will be joining the IRL should be glad there are only 24 cars altogether, otherwise the idiot grandson might have to reinstate that good ol' 25/8 rule to keep those out who haven't bought into his glorious vision by joining his 'murican grass-roots series (oh wait, Japanese engine, Italian chassis, foreign drivers?) years earlier.

For those "born yesterday", the 25/8 rule was introduced by TG to guarantee 25 spots on the post-split Indy 500 grids to IRL regulars, with just 8 left for outsiders, say CART teams, in order to prevent them cherry-picking the IRL's crown juwel (which of course they did in an all-out fashion when they finally did return in 2000, 2001 and 2002).

[jarrambide]

The former Champ Car teams that will be joining the IRL should be glad there are only 24 cars altogether, otherwise the idiot grandson might have to reinstate that good ol' 25/8 rule to keep those out who haven't bought into his glorious vision by joining his 'murican grass-roots series (oh wait, Japanese engine, Italian chassis, foreign drivers?) years earlier.

For those "born yesterday", the 25/8 rule was introduced by TG to guarantee 25 spots on the post-split Indy 500 grids to IRL regulars, with just 8 left for outsiders, say CART teams, in order to prevent them cherry-picking the IRL's crown juwel (which of course they did in an all-out fashion when they finally did return in 2000, 2001 and 2002).
Shirk, the feud is over, let it go, Champ Car is no more and there is no use in trying to start internet fights (not that is was ok a few days ago when we still had the feud), everyone is allow to participate, it is all right to dislike what just happened, it is not all right to pick up fights.

[Shirk]

no use in trying to start internet fights
You must be mistaken, I'm not. Who am I trying to provoke in your eyes? The 25/8 rule, TG's failed vision of the IRL, and CART teams dominating at Indy are all well-documented.


it is all right to dislike what just happened
However the general consensus here seems to be that it doesn't matter who "won" and how, as long as there's just one series again, never mind what happened twelve years ago and ever since. Revisionism in favour of the "victorious" side sure sets in quickly.

[jarrambide]

You must be mistaken, I'm not. Who am I trying to provoke in your eyes? The 25/8 rule, TG's failed vision of the IRL, and CART teams dominating at Indy are all well-documented.


However the general consensus here seems to be that it doesn't matter who "won" and how, as long as there's just one series again, never mind what happened twelve years ago and ever since. Revisionism in favour of the "victorious" side sure sets in quickly.

This is not a discussion , I´m informing you (and every participant of the 2 sub-forums) that trying to pick up fights will not be tolerated.

[Shirk]

This is not a discussion, I'm informing you (and every participant of the 2 sub-forums) that trying to pick up fights will not be tolerated.
Excellent, I will continue trying not to pick fights.