compared to IRL on ovals, NASCAR is sooooo SLOW.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I Tried I Tried I Tried

Ok I tried. Because there were so many open wheelers running in the Daytona 500, I decided to watch it and see what the excitement was all about.

But OMG !!!!! These NASCAR cars look soooo slow ! They look like they are running 70 mph. And what is all this pansy stuff ? You hit the wall, touch wheels, bump other cars and nothing happens ! Open wheel cars, you would be in the wall pulling that kind of stuff . Now I know why I don't watch NASCAR.

UGH

side thought.... I wonder what would happen if I cross posted this on the NASCAR board ?

[CCFanatic]

Wouldn't you end up on your head if you pulled that stuff in an open wheel car?

Agreed. The cars are so slow. Still 180 mph is quiet quick. Abotu what the IPS cars run.

[OWFan19]

I have to agree. This is some boring racing. I get a kick out of the Tony Stewart commerical, "whats it like bump drafting at 200mph" How would he know, they cant even break 190. 185 is fast, please.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Way to go for Roger Penske with a 1 2 finish This is and the Brickyard 400 are the only NASCAR races I will watch all year.

[call_me_andrew]

And what is all this pansy stuff ? You hit the wall, touch wheels, bump other cars and nothing happens ! Open wheel cars, you would be in the wall pulling that kind of stuff

You think that's crazy? Most NASCAR fans have the exact OPPOSITE idea and consider contact to be the source of excitement.

[Hotlavaaaa]

They do break 205+ going into the corners at certain tracks and if they ran without restrictor plates on the superspeedways they would be hitting 230+ going into the corners(which Rusty Wallace did a few years ago in a test). The 185-190 business is more for the safety of the crowd.

[DavePI2]

I agree they are so slow. I have been too two cup races and they look like they are crawling by you at the start and it doesn't get much better after that. .deferran did 241 at california, nascar doesn't come close(and that is not a restrictor plate track.)Oh and what would a champ car or irl car do at daytona? I doubt we would be talking about how fast the good old boys can go their without plates. But then open wheel probably couldn't run their because the same thing that happened at Texas would happen all over again. They would be too fast other then for maybe a test like they used to do at Talledega.

David

[Lee Roy]

Maybe it's the actual appearance of fans in the grandstands that makes them appear slower than the Indy Cars.

[wedge]

They're two different pieces of machinery but I still get the same kicks from different things.

I love the contact, rubbing and bump-drafting in stock cars.

Open wheelers, those things are like missiles! and the margin for error is a lot higher. The danger is what gives me the kicks, dicing wheel to wheel at 200mph and almost brushing and inter-locking wheels.

[harvick#1]

first they put restricter plates on the car to slow them down, and second.

and how do you compare a super light IRL car to a bigger sedan style car.

wow, haven't heard that stupid comparison before.

its like comparing an F1 car to a Mini, there is no comparison between openwheel cars to nascar.

[DavePI2]

and they haven't slowed down irl and champ cars over the past few years. What was the engine change in irl after brack's wreck at Texas? I don't remember, but it certainly slowed the speeds down.

[DavePI2]

of cousre the greatest change in engines to slow speeds was in sport car racing. I remember when the power of the prototypes at Lemans was almost unlimited. It was either 71 or 72 engine size was restricted to slow down those cars. Does anyone else remember the days of the Porsche 917 and how fast they could go down the long stretch at Lemans? Also how uncontrollable they were at those speeds?Thank goodness the canam cars didn't have that restriction. Still I understand the trouble with comparing 1600 lb. cars to 3400 lb. cars and an excellant point that is certainly duely noted. But my point of cup cars look like they are comming at a crawl doesn't change. Especially if you have been at the start for a f1 race. Then again everyone's favorite driver to hate(montoya) took out 1/3 of the field on the first turn after the start of that race, so maybe a little slower isn't so bad after all.

[CCFanatic]

I agree they are so slow. I have been too two cup races and they look like they are crawling by you at the start and it doesn't get much better after that. .deferran did 241 at california, nascar doesn't come close(and that is not a restrictor plate track.)Oh and what would a champ car or irl car do at daytona? I doubt we would be talking about how fast the good old boys can go their without plates. But then open wheel probably couldn't run their because the same thing that happened at Texas would happen all over again. They would be too fast other then for maybe a test like they used to do at Talledega.

David

When CC ran at California they were reaching at one time 250+ going into turn 4. Indy cars at Indy used to top 245-250 entering 1 and 4. I think the current IRL spec could do about the same as Indy, but yes, it would be like Texas and CART and have G-Force issues. I think CC would be about the same as Cali. But that is with a smooth track, which Daytona is not right now. If you noticed, the cars bumped and scrapped the track everywhere.

[CCFanatic]

and they haven't slowed down irl and champ cars over the past few years. What was the engine change in irl after brack's wreck at Texas? I don't remember, but it certainly slowed the speeds down.

I think it was in 2005 with a change from like 2.8 liter and big hp to the old 3.5 and lower hp. The mph speed at Indy dropped about 6-7 mph between the two engines.

Champ Car's been running the same 2.6 liter turbo for ever.

[ZzZzZz]

Way to go for Roger Penske with a 1 2 finish This is and the Brickyard 400 are the only NASCAR races I will watch all year.

As far as I'm concerned, Infineon is their most exciting race, by far.

I kind of like the COT. The racing seems a lot more interesting than it has been for quite a while. Add in some of "my" drivers, and i might find myself watching a bit more.

But yes, Indy Cars are much more exciting, IMO. A proper unified series, marketed well, has A LOT of upside potential.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

and I know IndyCar is in bed with ISC but we need a little guerilla marketing.

COMPARE and contrast IndyCar's product with NASCAR's product every chance IRL can get. magazine ads, commercials, product placement, Helio on Dancing with the Stars.... these speed differences and the IMO vastly superior entertainment value of IndyCar over NASCAR should be higlighted NOT hidden. On common tracks that IRL and NASCAR run, the speeds differences should be pointed out in every sports report, every telecast, every aspect of publicity. NASCAR is fine . The IRL is just better. And people need to know it.

[F1boat]

You are comparing apples to oranges...
Still, congratulations to Team Penske!

[BenRoethig]

I have to agree. This is some boring racing. I get a kick out of the Tony Stewart commerical, "whats it like bump drafting at 200mph" How would he know, they cant even break 190. 185 is fast, please.

Oh, they can sure break that. At Daytona and Talladega, they use a restrictor plate that cuts horsepower to about 450. Rusty ran an unrestricted lap a couple years back and got 230. That's well beyond the a point where a 3400lbs stock car can fly into the stands during a crash.

[fan-veteran]

When CC ran at California they were reaching at one time 250+ going into turn 4. Indy cars at Indy used to top 245-250 entering 1 and 4.
This is almost true. In fact in California speedway, in 1997 when the 241mph record was set (subsequently improved to 242mph in 2000), the downforce was very high and the run was flat out with top speeds around 390km/h and over 380 inside the turns. But then there wasn't Handford device, which was introduced in 1998.

In 1995 in IMS (a have a bump day footage) the top speed of Scott Brayton was 236mph (and in 230mph range in turns).

And there is a stuff from 1993 Michigan500 race on YouTube with some telemetry, where top speed was 230mph entering turn 1 and 3.

We may consider draft situations where the speed maybe go up with 5mph.

[Lee Roy]

and I know IndyCar is in bed with ISC but we need a little guerilla marketing.

COMPARE and contrast IndyCar's product with NASCAR's product every chance IRL can get. magazine ads, commercials, product placement, Helio on Dancing with the Stars.... these speed differences and the IMO vastly superior entertainment value of IndyCar over NASCAR should be higlighted NOT hidden. On common tracks that IRL and NASCAR run, the speeds differences should be pointed out in every sports report, every telecast, every aspect of publicity. NASCAR is fine . The IRL is just better. And people need to know it.

I think that people already know the entertainment value of Indy Cars and NASCAR.

[call_me_andrew]

The IRL is just better. And people need to know it.

Faster ≠ Better

[Lee Roy]

Faster ≠ Better

If it did, everyone would be a fan of the NHRA.

[POS_Maggott]

I find it funny that, even though they're calling it bad racing, a NASCAR restrictor plate race is essentially every IRL race (minus the road courses, and the couple of shorter tracks) just down about 25-30mph.

It seems nonsensical to compare the "thrills" of both series. That would be like comparing Formula One to Grand Am.

[geek49203]

After those fans were killed at MIS (CART) and Charlotte (IRL), you can be sure that we'll never hear the words, "It's a new track record" again. The MIS race (and maybe, CART itself) never recovered from the MIS race, and the IRL hasn't returned to Charlotte. Hell, I talked yesterday with a guy who was seven seats away from the fatalities at MIS, and after hearing his description of the event, I can understand why he said he'll never go to another Indy event.

After Tony Renna's car went THROUGH the fence at Indy (parts hitting the grandstand facade) the IRL went from 3.5L to 3.0L. After the series dropped to one motor, they went back to a de-tuned 3.5 running ethanol (moonshine!). You can expect more detuning in the future.

Modern auto racing isn't about technology, speed, or even driver skill... it's about entertainment. Akin to radio and TV, the goal is to entertain enough people that sponsors pay the bills. In such an environment, fatalities, or even serious injuries, are not tolerated. Faster doesn't mean "more entertaining", and hence, there is no business case to allow the speeds to go any faster.

Therefore, the speeds you see in the IRL are what you're gonna have, give or take 5-10 mph. The nice thing about having one motor for the series is that you can dial in horsepower (or take it away) with a 10-minute visit from "Honda" (Ilmor) via a laptop connection (world's most expensive USB device?). Those motors are dialed to a point where they last more than a thousand miles between rebuilds, and they give the desired speeds on the track.

Part of the mistake that CART diehards made until the bitter end was the idea that "faster is better racing". I'm sorry, but I can't tell the difference between 200 mph and 220 mph on the same track. And, to tell you the truth, the speeds as MIS were so fast that I could barely tell the COLOR of the car, much less the sponsor -- forget about the number! There is no way that Paul Tracy doing 257 mph on the front straight at MIS was more entertaining than others going 227, and quite frankly, it would be tough for anyone w/o a radar gun to know the difference.

NASCAR blew past CART even before the split -- the 1994 Brickyard proved that. NASCAR did it with slower speeds, lower technology, no F1 or Indy 500 champions... and no Indy 500. If this doesn't prove that modern auto racing isn't about technology, talent, or speed, I don't know what proof you need.

[fan-veteran]

I personally find 220 mph at Indy corners (as it is past years) to be sufficient. The top speed however is under 230mph, maybe better to reach 235mph.
Well, this is a snapshot from the 1997 qualifying session in Fontana. Notice the 240 mph speeds in four turns, the lap was taken flat-out; Gugelmin set a new world close course speed record ....