A huge mess on everyones part!!!!!

[jimispeed]

OK, so first TG decides to give all of these incentives for Champcar teams to enter the IRL.

Supposedly KK and GF were not notified.

KK decides that this year is the year to bail, even though a pretty successful test in Sebring, a decent schedule, and TV is in place.

This is just messed up!!!

Everyone who's involved whether it be the IRL, or Champcar is going to suffer huge for this.

They should have been good business men about this, and waited for 2009, so that tracks, cars, drivers, teams etc..... would be penciled in, and a merged series would at least look to resemble some kind of a soul!

Instead it's an extremely poorly thought out series of events that may just become non existant.

If Gerald Forsythe wants to have a go at Champcar, and it makes for a much more stable form of open wheel racing in the future, be it from a merger, or a successfully run open wheel series, I'm all for it!!

Do it right guys!!

I don't care if you're an IRL fan, or a Champcar fan, right now we're all getting !!!

[SoCalPVguy]

OK, so first TG decides to give all of these incentives for Champcar teams to enter the IRL.

Supposedly KK and GF were not notified.

KK decides that this year is the year to bail, even though a pretty successful test in Sebring, a decent schedule, and TV is in place.

This is just messed up!!!

Everyone who's involved whether it be the IRL, or Champcar is going to suffer huge for this.

They should have been good business men about this, and waited for 2009, so that tracks, cars, drivers, teams etc..... would be penciled in, and a merged series would at least look to resemble some kind of a soul!

Instead it's an extremely poorly thought out series of events that may just become non existant.

If Gerald Forsythe wants to have a go at Champcar, and it makes for a much more stable form of open wheel racing in the future, be it from a merger, or a successfully run open wheel series, I'm all for it!!

Do it right guys!!

I don't care if you're an IRL fan, or a Champcar fan, right now we're all getting *****

You are right - this is a big mess ! On that we agree.

I have a different take in that I think KK was notified and did not pass it on to GF (they're not speaking) and the teams in a timely manner, and then later TG contacted teams directly having not heard anything back the first time. Either way, that "is no way to run an airline" to quote an old commercial.

I strongly dispute your assertion that 2008 would be successful due to a "decent schedule, and TV is in place". You're kidding about the TV and schedule part, right ? KK isn't just bailing out on a whim - they are broke !!!!!

Given the present situation, I cannot see how CCWS could run any kind of "lame duck" series in 2008 prior to a merger in 2009. Who would attend, who would watch, what sponsor would invest, and what driver would risk life and limb in that scenario.

The time is now - or never, because if it is not now, CCWS will just cease to exist in 2008 after teams switch over on their own. No way GF could break off a separate CCWS series with less than 10-cars and no sponsorship, if they are going bankrupt now imagine that cost...

Taking one step back this year, unifying the AOWR situation NOW (2008) and allowing the former CCWS management at least some input and coming back in 2009 / 2010 with a better chassis/engine formula is the way to go, VERSUS having CCWS just go away and having IRL absorb a few teams with no former CCWS input, there is no incentive in that situation to move forward in the future.

You need to think longer-term strategically instead of emotionally in the present.

[Chris R]

There is a whole bunch of messed up stuff about this situation. The problem is that there are very few people who really have much of an idea what is going on. Almost all of the news we have read in the past several days can be traced back to Robin Miller's report. The forums are filled with a combination of opinions, suppositions and out-right fabrications probably all mixed together with some facts.

So, we are all left to trust what little we can take as "fact" and go with our gut reaction from there....

My gut tells me this thing will be resolved one way or the other very soon. It also is starting to get that sinking feeling that the results may be less than favorable because, as jimi pointed out, this is a huge mess...

The most obvious thing in this whole situation to me is that there is no justice in the world, these guys all appear pretty inept yet they are wealthy, I am a pretty capable person and I am not..... :(

[FlatChatRacer]

Jimispeed,

I admire your loyalty and I love the series too. However, what we love has gone. It's time to say goodbye and let it rest in peace.

KK and GF tried hard and spent their own money. However, it's now clear for all to see that they were very poor at managing a racing series.

I would love to see a truly strong Champ Car with mainly vibrant road races on North American soil. That is a dream on my part though and I have to accept that it will never be a reality.

I would like to ask you to try and let go of Champ Car and let it die gracefully, and see if you can embrace the single series that will be left?

Whether the rumour about GF trying to revive or continue the series is true or not, once a few teams leave, he won't have a series worth anything at all.

Would you really want to watch 16 Forsythe owned cars racing at Long Beach?

If Champ Car is to survive, it must be in a healthy state, not a joke of a series, with no meaningful TV presence, questionable credibility and little or no interest from the Motorsport World in general.

Champ Car 2008 is like watching a dear friend in Hospital on life support with a very grave prognosis. It's better and kinder to say thanks for the good times, we love you, goodbye and then turn off the machine!

[Chaparral66]

Jimispeed,

I admire your loyalty and I love the series too. However, what we love has gone. It's time to say goodbye and let it rest in peace.

KK and GF tried hard and spent their own money. However, it's now clear for all to see that they were very poor at managing a racing series.

I would love to see a truly strong Champ Car with mainly vibrant road races on North American soil. That is a dream on my part though and I have to accept that it will never be a reality.

I would like to ask you to try and let go of Champ Car and let it die gracefully, and see if you can embrace the single series that will be left?

Whether the rumour about GF trying to revive or continue the series is true or not, once a few teams leave, he won't have a series worth anything at all.

Would you really want to watch 16 Forsythe owned cars racing at Long Beach?

If Champ Car is to survive, it must be in a healthy state, not a joke of a series, with no meaningful TV presence, questionable credibility and little or no interest from the Motorsport World in general.

Champ Car 2008 is like watching a dear friend in Hospital on life support with a very grave prognosis. It's better and kinder to say thanks for the good times, we love you, goodbye and then turn off the machine!

For the most part, it's good to see you guys beginning to clue into the concept. This is becoming a huge mess and what we get may be totally inferior to what we have now. I'll try to keep an open mind and watch what this becomes, but right now, just looking at the chaotic nature of what's happening, it seems clear to me that all this is designed to do is to bolster the Indy 500. TG is not liable for any of the business repercussions from a series like CCWS failing to live up to its contracts for 2008, LLC and bankrauptcy protection notwithstanding. I want one series, but be careful what you wish for...the pain from this ramrod could last for years.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

It is incredibly frustrating how this whole matter has been handled. Any company worth its stock price or assets would issue official press releases either denying, confirming or acknowledging or disavowing rumors, speculation, facts, events, etc.

Instead, what we have here with this whole situation is deafening silence from both the IRL and ChampCar. No official press releases on either of the websites. The only news we fans get is from blogs, forums, and speculation from industry writers. Every article Robin Miller has written about this situation has had a question mark attached to the headline. Same with the coverage from IndyStar and ESPN.... all question marks with speculation and nothing concrete.

Anytime a leak came out there should have been an official response from the governing bodies. Leaks should be avoided but apparently are inevitable. I would have preferred a deal or outcome had been worked out BEFORE ANY news came out. There would not have been this excruciating stop and go torture we as race fans are experiencing.

We as fans on opposite sides of an issue should embrace common ground when we can. In this instance, this ground we are on, couldn't be more unifying.

STOP THE RUMORS ... GET THIS DONE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

[jimispeed]

It is incredibly frustrating how this whole matter has been handled. Any company worth its stock price or assets would issue official press releases either denying, confirming or acknowledging or disavowing rumors, speculation, facts, events, etc.

Instead, what we have here with this whole situation is deafening silence from both the IRL and ChampCar. No official press releases on either of the websites. The only news we fans get is from blogs, forums, and speculation from industry writers. Every article Robin Miller has written about this situation has had a question mark attached to the headline. Same with the coverage from IndyStar and ESPN.... all question marks with speculation and nothing concrete.

Anytime a leak came out there should have been an official response from the governing bodies. Leaks should be avoided but apparently are inevitable. I would have preferred a deal or outcome had been worked out BEFORE ANY news came out. There would not have been this excruciating stop and go torture we as race fans are experiencing.

We as fans on opposite sides of an issue should embrace common ground when we can. In this instance, this ground we are on, couldn't be more unifying.

STOP THE RUMORS ... GET THIS DONE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.


That is a very good post Chicagocrew......

My biggest frustration is on just how this is all going down..

Unlike some others who are here, I really enjoyed Champcar last year. I thought the competition was better than I have seen in a while! A few of the new venues were more than great (Mont Tremblant, TT circuit Assen).


If all the players in this were to do things right, and spend 2008 playing out both series, and preparing for '09, then I believe we'd be looking at a successful series with the fans next year.

But all of what the fans are experiencing now, just hurts on both sides!!

If all ends with TG in control of this, then please refer to my thread "Reaching Out To Tony George".

That is what has to happen if this ends in this way IMO..

It's just a very ugly way to do this for series/fans on both sides.

I imagined a much smoother, more professional transition.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

That is a very good post Chicagocrew......

My biggest frustration is on just how this is all going down..

Unlike some others who are here, I really enjoyed Champcar last year. I thought the competition was better than I have seen in a while! A few of the new venues were more than great (Mont Tremblant, TT circuit Assen).


If all the players in this were to do things right, and spend 2008 playing out both series, and preparing for '09, then I believe we'd be looking at a successful series with the fans next year.

But all of what the fans are experiencing now, just hurts on both sides!!

If all ends with TG in control of this, then please refer to my thread "Reaching Out To Tony George".

That is what has to happen if this ends in this way IMO..

It's just a very ugly way to do this for series/fans on both sides.

I imagined a much smoother, more professional transition.

Thanks jimispeed.....

"PROFESSIONAL" is the key word. The situation has been handled like some girl's high school gossip rumor mill, with due apologies to girl's high school gossipers. They are probably more organized than this +rap.

[electron]

What i am really sick of is the constant whining: " We where that close to a dal about a zillion times and *add sobb, cry herer* it got leaked and now westalled *add more sobbing and crying*...."

get the **** over with it. Therew ill always some rumours flying around. If not, this will only mean that the last remaining interest has been lost on AOWR.
The lack of any official CCWS reaction tells somthing too. Not sure if this is the message they want us to receive though.

[Cart750hp]

Jimispeed, you are right. This mess is coming from both sides and it just gets uglier before it gets better. How did this two series got into this place? Well, it's because of both sides did bring their series up to this point. It's all about money from before and it's about money again tomorrow.

I, professionally, don't see this merger as an answer to the American Open Wheel but it's more of putting it to an end.

Too many people have lost their jobs, too many money have spent, too many businesses doesn't believe in these two series anymore, and too many have spent so much time into this.

I also believe that the schedule, the sponsors, the contracts and the parties involved will be much disappointed before they see it right. Both series have taken too far of ways just to survive. Yet, the only answer for both is to start over. Many will be disappointed before they get satisfaction. How so? Well, ask TG, KK, GF, and PG why? The rests are just suckers and doing what they need to do to run a business and the sport. They just follow what is good for them.

The only reason for me to side on TG at this point to run both series is because he has the upper hand and no one else. Not just the I500 but he has set his standards in Indy itself. KK, GF and PG are just running around spending more money yet they know that it's not working. KK, GF, and PG could've sold the CC to other series but why TG? Ever asked that to yourself? If there's a person out there who could destroy the American Open Wheel, then he's the only one who can start a new one. Simple concept but it's true. He's spent so much money since 1996 yet, he's knocked down IndyCar/CART/CC three times already. TG must be the hated one but he's got CC on its balls 3 times already. And all that three times, no fight back from CC.

Time to get things done and let's start a new one.

[ZzZzZz]

The whole mess looks like divide and conquer. All the doubt will likely cause teams to jump ship. What sort of bargaining position is that? This is putting all the teams in a precarious financial situation. They need to shore things up NOW and make a deal for '09 or the vast majority of CC stakeholders are screwed.

Sure, do transitional stuff this year. Try to get all the teams to Indy, and get some of the teams to other non-conflicting races. But don't screw over all the teams, tracks, drivers, fans, employees, etc. with this incompetence.

[pvtjoker]

I imagined a much smoother, more professional transition.

I think we can ALL agree EVERYONE was hoping for a more professional transition. Sadly, it wouldn't be the soap opera that it is if everything happened so smoothly. While I blame KK, GF and TG for alot of this mess, I imagine their attorneys are playing a LARGE part in this fiasco.

[pvtjoker]

What i am really sick of is the constant whining: " We where that close to a dal about a zillion times and *add sobb, cry herer* it got leaked and now westalled *add more sobbing and crying*...."

get the **** over with it. Therew ill always some rumours flying around. If not, this will only mean that the last remaining interest has been lost on AOWR.
The lack of any official CCWS reaction tells somthing too. Not sure if this is the message they want us to receive though.

I agree. BOTH sides are a bunch of whiners! Lets just get this done already.

[McLovin]

Barack Obama voice mode on:

"I say to them tonight, there is not a champ car open wheel racing and an Indy Car open wheel racing— there is the AMERICAN open wheel racing community."

Barack Obama voice mode off.


DISCLAIMER: This quote is not endorsed by any political candidate or party and is to be taken as pure entertainment value. :p :D

[bblocker68]

I'm laughing at all of this today. You guys don't know anything, except for what the media and out of control forum fodder tells you.

I'm hoping we have answers soon, so we can actually talk about racing one of these days :) Otherwise, I'm over it.

Let's please get this over with!!!!

[cartpix]

Blocker, I think you hit the nail, on the head. These rumors have taken on a life of their own. We've heard so many rumors & heard so many different things (some contradictory), from the powers that be. I'm sure we will hear "real news" sometime, in the near future. I'm hoping for early next week, after TG gets back from the wedding. Or KK gets back from the Antactic. Or Elvis comes back...

Jeff

[Chaparral66]

Best thread in the forum about the merger so far. It's very easy to smell a rat in this thing...