Just Curious

[Roamy]

Do you people over there like the EU or would you prefer to go back to individual countries and currencies.

Personally I thought the old system was cooler and had way more class!!

Has the EU improved your quality of life?
Has the EU forced things on you that do don't like and did not want?

[janneppi]

EU is just anoth layer of bureocratic insulation to protect good people from direct contact with politicians. :)
Finland has been a member now for, what, 13 years, apart from the Euro I haven't really seen any meaningfull differences in my life that would make me cheer or boo at EU.
And the Euro isn't interesting either.

[Roamy]

yea I think countries like portugal get screwed because they cannot eval their own currencies. In the old days countries could really affect tourism by the value of their currency. Too much government = booooooring.

We need to reduce our Federal Gov by at least half. but our problem is that we have offshored too many jobs so where would the people work.

[Donney]

I think it has been generally good, for Spain at least, and sure it has imposed things, as any government does, but nothing dramatic or unnecessary.

[Woodeye]

I tend to think also the main thing EU has brought for our amusement is bureocracy. And it's also kind of strange to think that I pay taxes that the farmers in Poland will gain in the end. Finland is one of the countries that is paying currently to the EU so that the econmical balance will remain. That's stupid.

But what I like is the euro. It has simplified travelling for example a lot. No need to change currencies anymore. I don't miss the Finnish Markka at all.

[Magnus]

I think of the EU as a peace project. We have to pay for this through sometimes stupid beurocratic (hmm, that was hard to spell).
I think that the EU have given me small or no benefits.
One of the problems with the EU, from my egosistic POV, is their legislation when it comes to old cars... Another is that if it grows to big, it will break apart from inside.

[DonJippo]

Having a bit of mortgage I have followed somewhat closely how the interest rates are developing and having it now under 4.5% with the margin I do not miss old times when it was 10% or over. So yes I'm happy with euro :D

Also joining EU has forced our covernment to lower the taxation on imported used cars so it has made it possible for John Smith to import cars from other EU countries for reasonable price, right A.F.F. ;)

[MrJan]

We still don't have the Euro so no remarkable change. I think one of the best things is that it is apparently easier to travel between countries.

[Lousada]

I live close to two different borders. The open market and the single currency has done a huge deal in equalising prices. Also the regulations on various subjects are more and more equalised, which helps transparancy. In this respect the EU has been a huge improvement for me.
On the other hand the EU is an enormous burocracy with little democratic input. I think this is a critical flaw that could haunt it in the future. Also I think the EU should focus more on foreign policy, 'national' security and other aspects where the EU as a whole can make more impact than 25 countries by themselves.

[A.F.F.]

I've noticed that since Euro came along, everything is six times more expensive :mark:

yieppee.....

[BDunnell]

Do you people over there like the EU or would you prefer to go back to individual countries and currencies.

We still have individual countries, and some of us still have individual currencies.

My main problem with the EU is the way it has developed in what I would describe as an 'unorganic' fashion. I believe its involvement in some areas of our lives is sensible; in others, it is unnecessary. I feel it is far too bureaucratic and, in certain areas, far too corrupt — far more so than national political institutions, it would seem. The Euro, by contrast, has been a success and has not led to economic meltdown as some have predicted.

[Zico]

The EU is just step one for globalisation of a one world government/banking system imo.. When that happens and they chip us all.. democracy will become a contradiction of itself, we'll be like rats in a cage... Cynical or realistic?




Prefered the old system and a more clearcut national identity, soon we'll simply be known as Europeans. It hasnt changed anything for me. Blair/Brown sold phase 1 of our sovereign rights down the river without the referendum we were promised pre election, they should be tried for treason.

[BDunnell]

Prefered the old system and a more clearcut national identity, soon we'll simply be known as Europeans.

Er... no, we won't. Rumours of the demise of European nation states are greatly exaggerated. And no-one I know, no matter how pro-European they are, wants that as the end result. Do you think the French would be willing to give up their national sovereignty? Or, for that matter, the Germans, the Spaniards or the Dutch? I don't think so.

[Woodeye]

Er... no, we won't. Rumours of the demise of European nation states are greatly exaggerated. And no-one I know, no matter how pro-European they are, wants that as the end result. Do you think the French would be willing to give up their national sovereignty? Or, for that matter, the Germans, the Spaniards or the Dutch? I don't think so.

I think what Zico meant was that the rest of the world will see us as Europeans.

But it's true that the national identities will remain whether there's EU or not. There used to be a country called Yugoslavia that collapsed because it had too many national identities under one flag. Anyway, you can add Finns to your list. Not a chance that we will be just europeans, if that means that we could be mistaken being Swedes... :D

[jso1985]

I think European national identities are too strong to one day everyone be called "just" European

[BDunnell]

I think European national identities are too strong to one day everyone be called "just" European

Exactly. The subtext to the European 'debate' in the UK often seems to be that other countries in mainland Europe might be prepared to give up their sovereignty and identity in favour of an EU superstate, but 'that's not for the likes of us'. This is complete nonsense. National identities are just as strong in mainland Europe as they are in the UK. The way some people seem to think about it, you'd think Britain had a monopoly on the concepts.

[A.F.F.]

Not a chance that we will be just europeans, if that means that we could be mistaken being Swedes... :D

No ******* chance :D

[jso1985]

Vad sa du? :p

[fandango]

To answer the original question, I think the overall balance is positive. Sure, there are some silly laws etc, but the €uro and the easier travelling is good.

Inflation is a problem, because countries with cheaper prices are seeing everything going up, but it's not as easy as it should be for private citizens to buy things in cheaper countries.

The biggest problem is the degree of commitment of some countries, and the question of what it is they're supposed to be committing to! Where will it stop?

[Zico]

The biggest problem is the degree of commitment of some countries, and the question of what it is they're supposed to be committing to! Where will it stop?

If it aint broke dont (try) fix it... Maybe Im too patriotic or some of you may label me as too cynical or even too simple minded but that is my biggest fear also.. You have to take a step back and wonder what its all about. For those of you who dismiss it as an overhyped beurocratic European state in name only... that may be true for now but what happens if/when the transfer of power continues in phase 2,3 and 4 etc...?

Im pretty miffed about the whole thing.. the majority of us Brits are opposed to the whole idea yet our government, who promised us a referendum on the issue, backtracked and sold us down the river. Why are we being forced down this road where none of us really want to go.. What is there really in it for us, the people, that makes it so essential ?
Its widely rumoured that Tony Blair may consider running for European president when the position arises but only if he feels he'll be a leader of something that carries some real power as opposed to the beurocratic position it merely is.. at least for now.

[anthonyvop]

I think European national identities are too strong to one day everyone be called "just" European

Too Late!
We already do.

[A.F.F.]

Sure you do.

And in Latin America they speak Latin... expect in Mexico where they speak Mexican, right?

[Roamy]

Er... no, we won't. Rumours of the demise of European nation states are greatly exaggerated. And no-one I know, no matter how pro-European they are, wants that as the end result. Do you think the French would be willing to give up their national sovereignty? Or, for that matter, the Germans, the Spaniards or the Dutch? I don't think so.

well the dutch did - they went muslim

[Camelopard]

I think what Zico meant was that the rest of the world will see us as Europeans.

But it's true that the national identities will remain whether there's EU or not. There used to be a country called Yugoslavia that collapsed because it had too many national identities under one flag. Anyway, you can add Finns to your list. Not a chance that we will be just europeans, if that means that we could be mistaken being Swedes... :D

But Finland is half Swedish anyway, isn't it, after all road signs are bilingual and where is Hesingfors and for that matter Åbo? Then there is Åland, closer to Sweden than Finland :D :D , he says whilst stirring the pot :) .

[Camelopard]

well the dutch did - they went muslim

I guess that means that florida is Cuban and parts of Louisianna are French.

[maxu05]

Thinking about all this, I thought about being an Aussie. If you look at the make up of Australia, we have English, Irish, German, Italian, Greek, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian, Mexican, Thai, the list goes on and on. Each one of these can claim that they are Australian, especially if they were born in Oz.

[cosmicpanda]

I think what Zico meant was that the rest of the world will see us as Europeans.

It's not unusual, I assure you.

[Daniel]

No ******* chance :D

It's easy to tell because you don't have a stupid hairstyle :p

[gadjo_dilo]

But it's true that the national identities will remain whether there's EU or not. There used to be a country called Yugoslavia that collapsed because it had too many national identities under one flag.

But even if the separation from Yugoslavia may be seen as a normal process due to whom some nations ( slovens and croatians ) did regain their identities I don't think it's the same case for Bosnia and FYRM. Anyway, most of the states in the Balkans have ethnic problems.

Back to the questions: We are in EU for just one year and although the aderation brought either good or bad things one thing is sure, it was the right thing to do cos youu can't p** against the storm.

Good things: First of all it's the freedom to travel without the humiliation to ask for visas or to be embarassed at the customs. Not to mention there are posibilities to work or study abroad.
Not to mention that we can get rid of those annoying gypsies and delinquents who are tempted by richer countries. :laugh:
Bad things: some of the european laws don't match our mentality.
We should line up our prices to the european ones.

Losing national identity? Don't think so cos we are too stubborn and resisted in time under foreign yokes. But at the same time I wonder how the westerners will cope with the waves of eastern emigrants who intend to establish there. For ex. Romanians are a very numerous minority in Spain or Italy. Will they have an influence there?

[Woodeye]

But Finland is half Swedish anyway, isn't it, after all road signs are bilingual and where is Hesingfors and for that matter Åbo? Then there is Åland, closer to Sweden than Finland :D :D , he says whilst stirring the pot :) .

Sure, unfortunately that's true. But if I have to choose whether to read the road signs in swedish or in russian it's an easy choice.

I like our nordic neighbours. It's great to beat the Swedes in ice hockey and the norwegians in Ski jumping. :D The danes are not good in anything, well maybe in football but who's interested of that anyway..? ;)

[Roamy]

I guess that means that florida is Cuban and parts of Louisianna are French.

It is and what really pisses me off is that we still have to pay a arm and a leg for "Cohibas"

[Josti]

well the dutch did - they went muslim

Nonsense. Given the fact that the Netherlands is (an overcrowded) small country, there's a relative high concentration of muslim people. Though this religion has been past over from generation to generation, which origin lies in the 1960's when immegrants mainly from Marocco and Turkey came here to clean up the "dirty work" for us, but eventually stayed.

I also want to note that freedom of speech and of expression is a very strong point in the Dutch society. It doesn't hit the controverse here and is a strong point of debate, positive though also in a negative matter.

[BDunnell]

But at the same time I wonder how the westerners will cope with the waves of eastern emigrants who intend to establish there. For ex. Romanians are a very numerous minority in Spain or Italy. Will they have an influence there?

Apparently, Poles are starting to go back to Poland from the UK as the economic situation there improves while that in the UK seems more uncertain.

At the moment, I see no evidence that the East European migrant populations of countries such as the UK are forming a potent constituency in electoral terms. Their political influence is limited. Whether this will change, I don't know. My personal view is that it won't.

[fandango]

Ah yes, I've just remembered one thing I'm not happy about in the EU, but I'm not sure if it's a "fault" of the EU or of the Republic Of Ireland. I don't have a vote in a general election.

I can't vote in Spanish or Catalan general elections because I'm not a citizen. I can pay taxes, though. In fact I have to. Then, because I'm not resident in the country, I can't vote in Ireland.

I think British people get too confused about the potential threat to their identity from the EU, and so the debate there gets clouded too easily by over-emotive claims. The rest of the EU only puts up with this because the UK is so strong economically. It would be strange if it got to the point where the UK was thrown out, although I imagine many British people wouldn't mind...

[Daniel]

Apparently, Poles are starting to go back to Poland from the UK as the economic situation there improves while that in the UK seems more uncertain.

At the moment, I see no evidence that the East European migrant populations of countries such as the UK are forming a potent constituency in electoral terms. Their political influence is limited. Whether this will change, I don't know. My personal view is that it won't.
Bloody Poles! Sending their mushrooms over here! Used some Polish mushrooms to make a risotto tonight and they're definitely not as good as the Irish stuff we usually buy :angryfire

[BDunnell]

Bloody Poles! Sending their mushrooms over here! Used some Polish mushrooms to make a risotto tonight and they're definitely not as good as the Irish stuff we usually buy :angryfire

Well, what do you know? I'm currently in the middle of making a risotto, too. No mushrooms involved, though.

[MrJan]

I think British people get too confused about the potential threat to their identity from the EU, and so the debate there gets clouded too easily by over-emotive claims. The rest of the EU only puts up with this because the UK is so strong economically. It would be strange if it got to the point where the UK was thrown out, although I imagine many British people wouldn't mind...

Definately. Too many British people (including a bunch of my relatives) see it as an afront to being British but we will still be the same people and our identity will remain (not sure if that's a good thing really being that we haven't got the best image)

[BDunnell]

Too Late!
We already do.

Who is 'we'?

[BDunnell]

Definately. Too many British people (including a bunch of my relatives) see it as an afront to being British but we will still be the same people and our identity will remain

:up:

Precisely.

[Daniel]

Definately. Too many British people (including a bunch of my relatives) see it as an afront to being British but we will still be the same people and our identity will remain (not sure if that's a good thing really being that we haven't got the best image)
That's what you think. First it's mushrooms. Next we'll all have big beards and be killing each other with suicide bombs.

[MrJan]

That's what you think. First it's mushrooms. Next we'll all have big beards and be killing each other with suicide bombs.

I didn't realise that the Polish had big beards, or were suicide bombers for that matter :confused:

[Drew]

I don't call myself English, British or European. But I'm glad Poland is allowed to be in the EU :D

[gadjo_dilo]

At the moment, I see no evidence that the East European migrant populations of countries such as the UK are forming a potent constituency in electoral terms. Their political influence is limited. Whether this will change, I don't know. My personal view is that it won't.

I think I've read somewhere that in the 2007 local elections there were 66000 romanians with the right to vote in Spain and 500000 in Italy and the number will probably increase. These guys have not only the right to vote but also to be elected (one of them, a footballer, even did it :laugh :) . Imagine that in time these guys may found parties in thier adoptive countries.

But when I talked about their influence I didn't think of politics cos no matter what will happen they will still be a minority. I think about cultural influences, because these guys have traditions they use to respecr, they want to preserve their language and found schools and churches, etc.

[BDunnell]

I think I've read somewhere that in the 2007 local elections there were 66000 romanians with the right to vote in Spain and 500000 in Italy and the number will probably increase. These guys have not only the right to vote but also to be elected (one of them, a footballer, even did it :laugh :) . Imagine that in time these guys may found parties in thier adoptive countries.

It's a very interesting thought, certainly.



But when I talked about their influence I didn't think of politics cos no matter what will happen they will still be a minority. I think about cultural influences, because these guys have traditions they use to respecr, they want to preserve their language and found schools and churches, etc.

Which, so long as there is a measure of integration — with language skills as an obvious priority — ought not to be a problem.

[Magnus]

I thought this thread would develop into between cons and pros but it is nice it haven´t. Not yet anyway s:

[Firstgear]

I guess that means that florida is Cuban and parts of Louisianna are French.

And that would make fousto.....Mexican!