A Tempting Prospect to get CCWS fans to watch the merged series....

[ChicagocrewIRL]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series. Wouldn't it give you some degree of satisfaction and stir your competitive natures to watch the CCWS alumni smack around the IRL regulars on a weekly basis ??? Here is a chance for the CCWS drivers and teams to show the IRL teams how it's done on the street and road courses. To me, this new angle to the open wheel season just gets me more pumped up for the consolidation to be done and the season to get started. I wanna see my IRL guys and gals whoop your guys and gals on the ovals and I wanna see how your CCWS guys and gals beat the pants off of the IRL drivers on the road and street courses. We could sort of keep a tally / scoreboard of the week to week results.

CC VS IC showdown 2008

[rpralon]

It won't be fair for CC's teams/drivers at least in 2008.

The IRL's teams have known the secrets of Dalara's setup for years...

[HiWayStar]

The only CC team with a shot at Penske Ganassi & AGR is NHL, & they will need the better part of a season (at least) to get familiar with the new chassis, different tracks & all their quirks, etc. For the most part, the rest of the cc teams will assume mid-pack status, IMO. From a CC fans perspective, this "rivalry" does not look to be anything to get excited about...

[ChicagocrewIRL]

It won't be fair for CC's teams/drivers at least in 2008.

The IRL's teams have known the secrets of Dalara's setup for years...

But I think the likes of Graham Rahal and Justin Wilson can overcome that on talent alone. It's too bad Sebastien Bourdais couldn't be in the mix too.

[jimispeed]

The only CC team with a shot at Penske Ganassi & AGR is NHL, & they will need the better part of a season (at least) to get familiar with the new chassis, different tracks & all their quirks, etc. For the most part, the rest of the cc teams will assume mid-pack status, IMO. From a CC fans perspective, this "rivalry" does not look to be anything to get excited about...


You want us to be excited about Champcar drivers driving around in Dallaras without turbo's??

Sorry!!

When the chassis changes, and turbos come along, there is a descent mix of courses, and my post to TG comes true, then I'll get excited!!

[994ever]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series. Wouldn't it give you some degree of satisfaction and stir your competitive natures to watch the CCWS alumni smack around the IRL regulars on a weekly basis ??? Here is a chance for the CCWS drivers and teams to show the IRL teams how it's done on the street and road courses. To me, this new angle to the open wheel season just gets me more pumped up for the consolidation to be done and the season to get started. I wanna see my IRL guys and gals whoop your guys and gals on the ovals and I wanna see how your CCWS guys and gals beat the pants off of the IRL drivers on the road and street courses. We could sort of keep a tally / scoreboard of the week to week results.

CC VS IC showdown 2008

For me, of the eight cars that have a chance to compete for wins in the IRL, only three (and that's being generous) are filled with drivers, who, in an even close to perfect world, would be in top rides (Helio, Wheldon (being generous), and Dixon). On the CCWS side, besides watching PT who's always entertaining, only Wilson is really a world-class talent at this stage of things. So the field doesn't excite me.

In short, I don't feel strongly enough about the CCWS or IRL drivers as a whole to get excited about some manufactured rivalry.

That said, even if the field did excite me, if the bulk of the schedule is made up of current IRL races, I wouldn't be watching anyway. If Toronto really does vanish I'll be extremely disillusioned.

Finally, IRL cars on road courses = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

[ChicagocrewIRL]

You want us to be excited about Champcar drivers driving around in Dallaras without turbo's??

Sorry!!

When the chassis changes, and turbos come along, there is a descent mix of courses, and my post to TG comes true, then I'll get excited!!

So I guess it's more about the equipment and venues than the talent. That makes sense.

[HiWayStar]

So I guess it's more about the equipment and venues than the talent. That makes sense.

The cars themselves & the venues were a big part of the allure of Champ Car. THat's why it was such a big deal when the Panoz replaced the Lola.

As a fan of the series that uses "that other equipment" I'm sure you could not relate...

Drivers come & go...that's life. As do teams, on occasion. It's too bad TG would not allow CC teams to compete using their present equipment, & incorporate more than a token couple of races into the combined schedule. If he had, then maybe you'd "get it".

...And then there would be a true "rivalry".

[Skid Marx]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series. Wouldn't it give you some degree of satisfaction and stir your competitive natures to watch the CCWS alumni smack around the IRL regulars on a weekly basis ??? Here is a chance for the CCWS drivers and teams to show the IRL teams how it's done on the street and road courses. To me, this new angle to the open wheel season just gets me more pumped up for the consolidation to be done and the season to get started. I wanna see my IRL guys and gals whoop your guys and gals on the ovals and I wanna see how your CCWS guys and gals beat the pants off of the IRL drivers on the road and street courses. We could sort of keep a tally / scoreboard of the week to week results.

CC VS IC showdown 2008

So when the CCWS alumni start smacking around the IRL teams, as you say, then TG can go ahead and rig the results so that one of his IRL teams is declared the winner, right? Just ask PT who REALLY won the 2002 Indy 500!
If that's the deal, then thanks but no thanks!

[clydekart]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series. Wouldn't it give you some degree of satisfaction and stir your competitive natures to watch the CCWS alumni smack around the IRL regulars on a weekly basis ??? Here is a chance for the CCWS drivers and teams to show the IRL teams how it's done on the street and road courses. To me, this new angle to the open wheel season just gets me more pumped up for the consolidation to be done and the season to get started. I wanna see my IRL guys and gals whoop your guys and gals on the ovals and I wanna see how your CCWS guys and gals beat the pants off of the IRL drivers on the road and street courses. We could sort of keep a tally / scoreboard of the week to week results.

CC VS IC showdown 2008

Look at history-it will tell you something about the future. A good road course driver will learn ovals quickly as they are not as challenging. Remember Nigel Mansel who never ever raced an oval came to CART from F1 and won the series-not with road or street wins but with oval wins. I think he won his first oval and the competition was a lot better than today!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

The cars themselves & the venues were a big part of the allure of Champ Car. THat's why it was such a big deal when the Panoz replaced the Lola.

As a fan of the series that uses "that other equipment" I'm sure you could not relate...

Drivers come & go...that's life. As do teams, on occasion. It's too bad TG would not allow CC teams to compete using their present equipment, & incorporate more than a token couple of races into the combined schedule. If he had, then maybe you'd "get it".

Well I would agree with you that a lot of the ChampCar venues should be added and some of the IRL races eliminated. Ideally, Cleveland, Toronto and Road America should be added and Homestead, Kentucky and Kansas should be eliminated. The Series is due for a major equipment overhaul in 2010 and with the input of ex-ChampCar engineers, I think an incredible new OPEN formula is possible . And here's hoping OPEN is the operative word. Give engineers design parameters, a budget, and may the best design/engine win.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

So when the CCWS alumni start smacking around the IRL teams, as you say, then TG can go ahead and rig the results so that one of his IRL teams is declared the winner, right? Just ask PT who REALLY won the 2002 Indy 500!
If that's the deal, then thanks but no thanks!


Oh gawd !!!! And Al Gore won the 2000 Elections ! SO WHAT ?? !! MOVE ON.org !!

[HiWayStar]

The Series is due for a major equipment overhaul in 2010 and with the input of ex-ChampCar engineers, I think an incredible new OPEN formula is possible . And here's hoping OPEN is the operative word. Give engineers design parameters, a budget, and may the best design/engine win.


THAT would put OWR back on track to being the innovative state-of-the-art engineering challenge that made it great in the 1st place.

The spec-racing crap is for the birds...

[Champcar4life]

If Champcar does fold like everybody is saying, I won't be following the new what every they are going to call it series.

[call_me_andrew]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series. Wouldn't it give you some degree of satisfaction and stir your competitive natures to watch the CCWS alumni smack around the IRL regulars on a weekly basis ??? Here is a chance for the CCWS drivers and teams to show the IRL teams how it's done on the street and road courses. To me, this new angle to the open wheel season just gets me more pumped up for the consolidation to be done and the season to get started. I wanna see my IRL guys and gals whoop your guys and gals on the ovals and I wanna see how your CCWS guys and gals beat the pants off of the IRL drivers on the road and street courses. We could sort of keep a tally / scoreboard of the week to week results.

CC VS IC showdown 2008

Since I only started watching OW racing in 1998, I've been able to stay neutral during the war. But I think the CC die hards have a West Side Story mentality about this situation.

Yeah, the Jets and the Sharks are tough gangs, but at the end of the day they're still ballet dancers.

[Dalon]

In order to give the champcar teams a small chance, for this season only they could "award" podium finishers penalty ballast. 10lbs a win, 5lbs for second, 3 lbs for third. Maximum possible ballast of 50 lbs.

Ballast has been a very successful way of evening things out in some Touring Car series.

[call_me_andrew]

Touring cars are big. Where are you going to stick ballast on a minimalist OW car?

[jimispeed]

Since I only started watching OW racing in 1998, I've been able to stay neutral during the war. But I think the CC die hards have a West Side Story mentality about this situation.

Yeah, the Jets and the Sharks are tough gangs, but at the end of the day they're still ballet dancers.

Say what you will, we're no ballet dancers!! Champcar is a damn good series! I just hope that TG takes advantage of that!!

[Cart750hp]

Say what you will, we're no ballet dancers!! Champcar is a damn good series! I just hope that TG takes advantage of that!!

Correction: CC "Was" a good series. I would agree.

[Dalon]

Touring cars are big. Where are you going to stick ballast on a minimalist OW car?
F1 cars are smaller and lighter than Indycars, yet most of them have over 100 lbs of ballast. For the most part they use a plate of tungsten ballast and stick it the middle of the car.

According to this calculator (http://alloytech.com/purchasing/weightcalculator.htm) 10 lbs of tungsten is a cube less then 2 1/2 inches on a side. That is pretty darn small.

50 lbs of tungsten is a cube just a bit over 4 inches on a side. Flattened out, a 1 inch piece about the size of a small dinner plate would weigh 50 lbs. It could be bolted to the bottom of the car. If they felt that would be unsafe, it could even be bolted to the motor.

[MAX_THRUST]

Stick them all in go karts for all I care. It will be more entertaining than the drivel both series fans have watched since the fall of CART.

I can't wait to see a unified series, if it doesn't happen, then someone needs shooting and it aint the president!!!!! For once,,,,,,,,,,,Oh hell does this mean the FBI are gonna come visit me?

[clydekart]

Stick them all in go karts for all I care. It will be more entertaining than the drivel both series fans have watched since the fall of CART.

I can't wait to see a unified series, if it doesn't happen, then someone needs shooting and it aint the president!!!!! For once,,,,,,,,,,,Oh hell does this mean the FBI are gonna come visit me?

Not the FBI but the SS--I mean Homeland Security.

[mike15]

NO.
If I did not like the IRL product yesterday making it the only AOW product today does not change the fact that it is a terrible product.

For those of you that think the product is racing, well enjoy. My racing definition is more than side by side racing waiting for the accident.

If the Budwiser shoot out was a sample of what AOW racing will become, well to me that is nothing more than slot car racing. I don't have time for the mind numbing NASCAR races nor will I have time for what is left of AOWR.

[beachbum]

NO.
If I did not like the IRL product yesterday making it the only AOW product today does not change the fact that it is a terrible product.

For those of you that think the product is racing, well enjoy. My racing definition is more than side by side racing waiting for the accident.

If the Budwiser shoot out was a sample of what AOW racing will become, well to me that is nothing more than slot car racing. I don't have time for the mind numbing NASCAR races nor will I have time for what is left of AOWR.No one is going to force you to watch. Every TV has a tuner. But trying to equate the NASCAR shootout with what may be the future of open wheel doesn't make much sense. If a single series emerges, there will be quite a few road courses and street races. Besides, a lot of people seem to think what you call mind numbing to be rather exciting and worth spending big bucks to see. If you don't, thats ok.

[SarahFan]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series. 8


do you really think any of them/us havn't been watching since the drop of the first green?

[mike15]

No one is going to force you to watch. Every TV has a tuner. But trying to equate the NASCAR shootout with what may be the future of open wheel doesn't make much sense. If a single series emerges, there will be quite a few road courses and street races. Besides, a lot of people seem to think what you call mind numbing to be rather exciting and worth spending big bucks to see. If you don't, thats ok.
That may be if you had a real OW product but NOT with the IRL product.

[pvtjoker]

Say what you will, we're no ballet dancers!! Champcar is a damn good series! I just hope that TG takes advantage of that!!

For once, I agree with you. One can only hope.

[FormerFF]

It's a nice suggestion, ChicagoCrew. If this happens, I'll probably watch most of the road races, but very little oval racing. I'm very glad that the ALMS is looking so good this year.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series.

I think many of us don't "refuse" to watch the "new" series. For me, it's not a principle or ideology. Personally, I'm simply not interested in the product it would have to offer. Judging from the available information the new series will be basically a fatter IRL IndyCar Series, with 2 more races and a bigger field. But the core product will remain the same. If I was interested in buying that product, I'd be an IRL fan already.

[Ruben Barrios]

Turns out fans hold much more of a grudge than the people involved... Guess money has a way of putting everything in perspective...

The demise of CART was very simple.... you can't run a series on hate only... Mature people eventually move on.... teenagers continue with their grudge ... 'till they grow...

[johnny shell]

I think that almost all of the IRL drivers now-a-days are just as good on road courses as the champ car guys. it's not like billy boat or dr jack are running IRL anymore.

I see NHL as the only team able to come close to competing with Penske & AGR. but I think penske & AGR have grown a lot over the last few years, but NHL hasn't.

I think NHL will be high 2nd tier, and the rest of the champ car teams will be mid-pack to back of the pack.

[fan-veteran]

So what will satisfy the fans? :)
They (fans i mean :) ) complain of the car appeal of the current Dallara, the power, small number of competitors, side by side high speed racing on ovals, not so much skilled drivers?
- Dallara IRL is not an ugly car, it was simply designed for ovals - the only OW racing car of this type (of course i prefer 1995 design) and is more attractive than current F1 cars. The level of its safety is very good. Nevertheless - there will be new car in 2009.
- Power is not very high to say, but is sufficient for oval racing. And the current engines are relatively cheap. Of course i prefer Honda Turbo engines with at least 900hp for road/street and about 700hp for ovals.
- Less than 20 cars on the grid - bad, but now there is a chance to exceed 30!!
- going side by side with over 200mph is exciting and is what all we want, yes? :) (actually 215mph)

[clydekart]

So what will satisfy the fans? :)

- Dallara IRL is not an ugly car, it was simply designed for ovals - the only OW racing car of this type (of course i prefer 1995 design) and is more attractive than current F1 cars. The level of its safety is very good. :) (actually 215mph)

More attractive than a F1 car!!! Good Safety!!!! Please--do a side-by-side comparison. Nothing more to say.

[mikiec]

So what will satisfy the fans? :)
They (fans i mean :) ) complain of the car appeal of the current Dallara, the power, small number of competitors, side by side high speed racing on ovals, not so much skilled drivers?
- Dallara IRL is not an ugly car, it was simply designed for ovals - the only OW racing car of this type (of course i prefer 1995 design) and is more attractive than current F1 cars. The level of its safety is very good. Nevertheless - there will be new car in 2009.
- Power is not very high to say, but is sufficient for oval racing. And the current engines are relatively cheap. Of course i prefer Honda Turbo engines with at least 900hp for road/street and about 700hp for ovals.
- Less than 20 cars on the grid - bad, but now there is a chance to exceed 30!!
- going side by side with over 200mph is exciting and is what all we want, yes? :) (actually 215mph)

With all due respect to you, I really can't tell whether you're being serious or being sarcastic here! The only part that indicates to me that you're being serious is the bit about low power.

[fan-veteran]

I'm serious. :) . Well, the beauty of the car is according to own perception. I most like cars from mid 90's or late '90s in FedEx KART (especially '94 Indy Penske). A admit that there are aspects in which current Dallara looks ... lets say a little strange. But the design is unique, is't it? :)

I don't watch small 1-mile ovals. But i found the last 2007 race at Chicagoland to be good.

[Blancvino]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series. Wouldn't it give you some degree of satisfaction and stir your competitive natures to watch the CCWS alumni smack around the IRL regulars on a weekly basis ???

In a word ... NO.

I'm out. F1 and ALMS for me going forward. I cannot acknowledge the grandson's victory so I will go away.

There is principals a play here too. I believe this is lost on a lot of you guys salivating for a single series.

Good luck with you "All Hail to the Grandson" series.

[bblocker68]

To all you CCWS fans out there who refuse to watch the new consolidated series. Wouldn't it give you some degree of satisfaction and stir your competitive natures to watch the CCWS alumni smack around the IRL regulars on a weekly basis ??? Here is a chance for the CCWS drivers and teams to show the IRL teams how it's done on the street and road courses. To me, this new angle to the open wheel season just gets me more pumped up for the consolidation to be done and the season to get started. I wanna see my IRL guys and gals whoop your guys and gals on the ovals and I wanna see how your CCWS guys and gals beat the pants off of the IRL drivers on the road and street courses. We could sort of keep a tally / scoreboard of the week to week results.

CC VS IC showdown 2008

Who taught you how to bait a hook?? You need fresh fish, not an anchovy from 2002 :) Most CC fans have heard this line of thinking since the CART came into Indy and dominated. From what I remember, that didn't work out to well for Champcar.

Hey, you should try asking this over at Crapwagon!!!

It would be interesting to see if it gets past 2 reply's before the countdown starts. That poor place is going to implode within minutes :)

[994ever]

I think many of us don't "refuse" to watch the "new" series. For me, it's not a principle or ideology. Personally, I'm simply not interested in the product it would have to offer. Judging from the available information the new series will be basically a fatter IRL IndyCar Series, with 2 more races and a bigger field. But the core product will remain the same. If I was interested in buying that product, I'd be an IRL fan already.

Great post, particularly the last line. I'm in 100% agreement with nothing to add.