Champcar Rumored To File For Bankruptcy Protection In Next 48 Hours

[heelntoe]

CCWS expects to file for bankruptcy protection over the next 48 hours as part of unification deal. So much for a merger...this is gonna' get weird!

[Hoop-98]

Is thie from the TF post?

[Chris R]

sort o a bittersweet end to this whole mess... too bad the wrong side won - but hey - it was getting pretty hard to tell which was the "right" side anyway... Here's hoping for brighter days for AOWR!!!

[Chaparral66]

sort o a bittersweet end to this whole mess... too bad the wrong side won - but hey - it was getting pretty hard to tell which was the "right" side anyway... Here's hoping for brighter days for AOWR!!!

Hard not to agree, Chris. :(

[Nappy]

If this is true then American Racing has devolved into taxi cabs and go-karts. F1 becomes the only race in town with the exception of A1GP which I hope takes over the Toronto race.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

If this is true then American Racing has devolved into taxi cabs and go-karts. F1 becomes the only race in town with the exception of A1GP which I hope takes over the Toronto race.


650 HP Ethanol powered normally aspirated 3.5 litre V8 go karts thank you very much

[HiWayStar]

sort o a bittersweet end to this whole mess... too bad the wrong side won - but hey - it was getting pretty hard to tell which was the "right" side anyway... Here's hoping for brighter days for AOWR!!!

Cra...IRL cars & cookie cutter 1.5 mi ISC tracks. Oh, be still my heart...(NOT!!!)

You're right the "wrong" series won...

But after the mis-adventures CC has been through the last couple of seasons, you have to wonder where the "right" series went...

[gerkebi]

F1 becomes the only race in town

Except they're not in town anymore. Road trip to Montreal!

[Chaparral66]

If this is true then American Racing has devolved into taxi cabs and go-karts. F1 becomes the only race in town with the exception of A1GP which I hope takes over the Toronto race.

I'd like to see A1GP at either Road America, Laguna Seca, or Watkins Glen (with boot).

[Champcar4life]

CCWS expects to file for bankruptcy protection over the next 48 hours as part of unification deal. So much for a merger...this is gonna' get weird!


If this is true ALMS here I come.

[trumperZ06]

If this is true ALMS here I come.

;) Formula One's also having their troubles... what with Mad Max on his "Witch-Hunts" and tight-wad Bernie moving races to... Third World Countries, where he is able to con their government's into funding, and allowing Tobacco advertising.

:D With all the new Sports Cars arriving in the next year or two, ALMS may wind up being... the best show in town.

[cartpix]

Cra...IRL cars & cookie cutter 1.5 mi ISC tracks. Oh, be still my heart...(NOT!!!)

You're right the "wrong" series won...

But after the mis-adventures CC has been through the last couple of seasons, you have to wonder where the "right" series went...

The right series went away with mismanagement, 4 years ago. It was called CART.

Jeff

[cartpix]

;) Formula One's also having their troubles... what with Mad Max on his "Witch-Hunts" and tight-wad Bernie moving races to... Third World Countries, where he is able to con their government's into funding, and allowing Tobacco advertising.

:D With all the new Sports Cars arriving in the next year or two, ALMS may wind up being... the best show in town.

And how much tobacco sponsorship is still in F1?

Jeff

[Dr. Krogshöj]

And how much tobacco sponsorship is still in F1?

Jeff

Ferrari is the only team still having a tobacco sponsor (Phillip Morris).

[BobGarage]

too bad the wrong side won

no matter what happens I don't think anyone has "won".

both series are lacking the fans and sponsors of the 90's, the "merged" scheulde will be poor with too many cookie cutter ovals.

no one will have one, the fans have lost, the teams have lost, the series have lost and even king tony has lost one hell of a lot of value in what was once the greatest race on earth.

there are no winners just a hell of a lot of losers in a split that never needed to happen. Thanks TG! :(

[3Monkeys]

I find it a shame that some of the top tracks from ChampCar are not being accomodated with the 2008 IRL schedual. I understand not being able to take the Panoz and the Cosworth (hope that they concider it for next year, at least the chassis...BIG HOPE). If things do go ahead i only hope that 2009 will feature more of what ChampCar had to offer. Even if some of the tracks havent had a great attendance in the past they are still great circuits. Toronto, Cleveland, Laguna, Road America, Mont Tremblant, Portland, Houston, Edmonton.... I may as well have included the lot of them.. But the first 5 have to be amoung my favorites that i will miss.

I find it sad that ChampCar have been concidered the losers in this battle. I only hope that with the merge that some part of the ChampCar identity will filter through and not be completely wiped off the map.

3M

[ShiftingGears]

650 HP Ethanol powered normally aspirated 3.5 litre V8 go karts thank you very much

You can't deny that those engines are underwhelming in power and spectacle when compared to the Cosworth, though.

[Albert D. Kallal]

link for this rumor???

[fan-veteran]

Well, 650 against 725 HP is not a big difference. Everyone know the concerns with speed on ovals. These IRL Dallaras still reach more than 225 mph on Indy. Compared to F1 cars on power and weight basis both IRL & CCWS are underpowered.

[Mark]

And remember that F1 engines are NOT turbocharged. So banging on about turbochargers is rather silly IMO.

[Civic]

The current IRL IndyCars are a lot closer to the Panoz in road course performance than you think, based on Mid-Ohio times last year.

I think the gap would still be bigger at tracks like Road America.

[BobGarage]

The current IRL IndyCars are a lot closer to the Panoz in road course performance than you think, based on Mid-Ohio times last year.

indeed

Simon Pagenaud ran a 1:06.280 at Mid-Ohio testing for Team Aus last year.
Helio got a 1:06.837 for pole at the IRL race last year.

[Albert D. Kallal]

Well, 650 against 725 HP is not a big difference. Everyone know the concerns with speed on ovals. These IRL Dallaras still reach more than 225 mph on Indy. Compared to F1 cars on power and weight basis both IRL & CCWS are underpowered.

Actually, it usually 750HP, and with push to pass, you get 800. When the cars wnak down a long straight with the push to pass, they do make serious hay, and 800 ponies makes a BIG difference.

When you watch these cars rip down the straights in the following video, the push to pass certainly did add to the racing, and did does give the cars a good kick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl5C-4_PYBc

Albert D. Kallal
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com

[mikiec]

Latest from RM on SpeedTV.com

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/champ-car-heading-for-bankruptcy/


Steve Johnson, president of Champ Car, was asked about the bankruptcy rumor on Monday evening and responded in an email: “I have not been informed and we have been hearing the bankruptcy rumor for 18 months.”

However, at least one definitive sign pointed to the end of a series....

Pat Caporali, hired a few weeks ago as CC’s new director of public relations, reported for her first day of work on Monday. But she was informed it might be a good idea to try and get her old position back with Chip Ganassi because there would be no work for her.

Other employees were reportedly told to cease working on 2008 projects and some began cleaning out their desks.

[Mark]

Interesting.. The beginning of the end, but a new beginning for all that too :p

[gofastandwynn]

Looks like the teams are not the only ones CCWS haven't been paying



One contractor, Dan D. Jones & Associates, has already filed a law suit against Champ Car for non payment. After the new Panoz cars developed massive fuel leaks and re-fueling problems during the first three races of 2007, Jones was hired to overhaul and save the fuel systems—which he did.

But, according to the suit filed in Indianapolis superior court last week, Jones has never been paid one penny of the $300,000 he’s owed. He’s hired Jim Voyles to try and recoup the money.

[Chris R]

I see some wanting A1-GP to take over Champcar dates/venues.

I know it is an emotional time and that seems like a good answer - but I just wanted to remind everyone that about the only openwheel cars out there that are uglier, more underpowered, and just plain laughable than the IRL cars are A1-GP cars - maybe it'll be better next year with the pseudo Ferraris - but I wouldn't hold my breath on that....

2008 might be a rough year - but with a consolidation AOWR has the opportunity to become something we can all get excited about in 2009 and beyond.....

[mikiec]

I see some wanting A1-GP to take over Champcar dates/venues.

I know it is an emotional time and that seems like a good answer - but I just wanted to remind everyone that about the only openwheel cars out there that are uglier, more underpowered, and just plain laughable than the IRL cars are A1-GP cars - maybe it'll be better next year with the pseudo Ferraris - but I wouldn't hold my breath on that....

Have you ever watched an A1GP race? They might not be beautiful, but they provide arguably some of the best open wheel racing anywhere!

[pvtjoker]

Uh oh, Has Sanguin seen this yet?

Then again I shouldn't worry. I'm sure he'll spin this where CC will smell like roses.

[pvtjoker]

Have you ever watched an A1GP race? They might not be beautiful, but they provide arguably some of the best open wheel racing anywhere!

The racing is good. Wonder how Ferrari will effect the racing next year?

[beachbum]

Uh oh, Has Sanguin seen this yet?

Then again I shouldn't worry. I'm sure he'll spin this where CC will smell like roses.Maybe he is busy cleaning out his desk?

[Chris R]

I've watched them, just can't get into it anymore than say an Atlantics race (or an IRL oval for that matter)... no to say it is bad or anything - just doesn't have that extra "something" that makes it special.... Probably has something to do with it being a low powered spec series..... (honestly, Champcar for the last two seasons hasn't exactly gotten my blood boiling either)....We need some technical diversity and cars that require power management by the driver and something that makes them look more exciting on the track even if they are running alone..... Let's face it , an F-1 car flying solo is still a pretty impressive spectacle.....

[Chris R]

You know Sanguin has not posted since Saturday..... To those of you who read autoracing1.com, I thought you might see some significance in that.....

[Rudy Tamasz]

Dunno about you guys, but I have a feeling of being dumped seeing how the "merger" is being implemented. Several classic races will bite the dust. A very decent OW racecar is rendered obsolete two years after being designed. Some CC teams will be reduced to backmarkers instead of racing for podiums and wins. That's very sad.

I mean if the merger makes business sense, can't it be done with dignity? I will give new series a try, but I'll see if I stick for long. I realize I'm just another overseas fan and nothing more, but I reckon a certain number of people will be ***** off like me, too.

[heelntoe]

Dunno about you guys, but I have a feeling of being dumped seeing how the "merger" is being implemented. Several classic races will bite the dust. A very decent OW racecar is rendered obsolete two years after being designed. Some CC teams will be reduced to backmarkers instead of racing for podiums and wins. That's very sad.

I mean if the merger makes business sense, can't it be done with dignity? I will give new series a try, but I'll see if I stick for long. I realize I'm just another overseas fan and nothing more, but I reckon a certain number of people will be pi$$ed off like me, too.

While I've expected and predicted much of this unraveling, it doesn't feel as good as i thought given I should be dancing a jig from the way certain CCWS Amigos treated me. I also feel bad for guys like John Clagett who have hung in there through thick and thicker...now hearing elsewhere that the new PR lady that was to start yesterday has been told to try and get her old job back and at least one vendor who fixed the leaky fuel cells is the first to file suit for non payment...this is gonna' get pretty ugly folks.

[Mark]

ChampCar merchandise is currently 84% off ;)

[rundgy]

link for this rumor???

paddocktalk

[clydekart]

CCWS expects to file for bankruptcy protection over the next 48 hours as part of unification deal. So much for a merger...this is gonna' get weird!

Bankruptcy does not make sense if an irl CC merger is to take place. I am not a lawyer but I think in Bankruptcy creditors must be payed, assets are seized and a judge makes a decision. If someone else other than TG steps up with more cash, then they could buy the CC series. When CART went bankrupt, even Bernie Ecclestone looked ino it.

[Mark]

Bankruptcy does not make sense if an irl CC merger is to take place. I am not a lawyer but I think in Bankruptcy creditors must be payed, assets are seized and a judge makes a decision. If someone else other than TG steps up with more cash, then they could buy the CC series. When CART went bankrupt, even Bernie Ecclestone looked ino it.

Yep, it makes the whole thing much more complicated and likely to drag on for months rather than coming to a switft resolution. It's possible that a debtor has filed a winding up order in the courts which could be the source of this story. It doesn't mean it will be granted.

[heelntoe]

Bankruptcy does not make sense if an irl CC merger is to take place. I am not a lawyer but I think in Bankruptcy creditors must be payed, assets are seized and a judge makes a decision. If someone else other than TG steps up with more cash, then they could buy the CC series. When CART went bankrupt, even Bernie Ecclestone looked ino it.

There is no merger, it's an absorption deal. TG won't take the liabilities of the cancelled races, etc. along with lawsuits that are already teeing up, so BK is the only way to go for the deal to happen. Buying the series would also not be likely as the teams and other key operating personnel would be gone.

[heelntoe]

paddocktalk

Robin Miller on Speed

[David St. Hubbins]

The ironic thing to me is if CC does declare bankruptcy, then somehow tg is looking like the good guy (or at least not-such-the-bad-guy). Which turns my stomach.

I was initially ecstatic when KK et al bought CART, and believed them, as well as believed in them. I didn't mind PG being the mouthpiece at first, then when he effectively went into hiding, I thought, okay, KK is the majority shareholder, and is taking the reins. And I was fine with that.

The Antarctica trip was a wake up call though. I thought how the devil could he do that? But I still had confidence he knew what he was doing: sometimes a good manager doesn't have to micromanage, if he puts good people in charge.

It looks as though he didn't.

I'm of the opinion now (nothing to back it up other than my own thoughts) that this was his 5-year plan. Either the series would be completely self-sustaining within 5 years, or he'd walk away (or it'd be self-sustaining and he'd walk away--in either scenario, I think he planned on getting out after 5 years). Personally, I think he cut it too soon, because he wanted teams to be self-sustaining at least a year too soon.

tg, it's looking more and more like it's your toy now, and the pressure's all on you. I know you're used to being hated by half the AOWR community, but take my advice: don't mess this up, or else be prepared to be hated by the rest.

[clydekart]

There is no merger, it's an absorption deal. TG won't take the liabilities of the cancelled races, etc. along with lawsuits that are already teeing up, so BK is the only way to go for the deal to happen. Buying the series would also not be likely as the teams and other key operating personnel would be gone.

I guess the only thing to do is wait. I don't think you can cherry-pick the 3 money-making races and leave everyone else with nothing. A judge will be fair and disperse any loses.
Ideally, a person with money-to-burn would step up and take over-if this happened watch how fast key people return.

[heelntoe]

I guess the only thing to do is wait. I don't think you can cherry-pick the 3 money-making races and leave everyone else with nothing. A judge will be fair and disperse any loses.
Ideally, a person with money-to-burn would step up and take over-if this happened watch how fast key people return.

Respectfully, no. KK and GF intentionally put LBGP and the other races in separate LLC's in the event of another BK and CCWS has always limited operating capital and limited assets of any major value. As far as another person coming in, without those races, teams, etc., that would have to be the dumbest person on the planet.

[clydekart]

Respectfully, no. KK and GF intentionally put LBGP and the other races in separate LLC's in the event of another BK and CCWS has always limited operating capital and limited assets of any major value. As far as another person coming in, without those races, teams, etc., that would have to be the dumbest person on the planet.

I would say 40-50 Panoz chasis and the cosworth's that are now in them are worth quite a bit.

[nanders]

And remember that F1 engines are NOT turbocharged. So banging on about turbochargers is rather silly IMO.

I think CCWS turbos sound allot cooler. When you hear them going away from you and the waste gate popping as they shift ... sweeeet! In F1, the engine sounds have gotten less cool ever since the Lamborghini V12 left the series.

[Chris R]

I would say 40-50 Panoz chasis and the cosworth's that are now in them are worth quite a bit.

somebody posted yesterday there are only 29 Panoz DP-01 out there including the test mule. My best guess is that they are not owned by OWRS and the engine are probably owned by Cosworth not OWRS....

My best guess is the OWRS, LLC own at most a couple of computers, some copy paper, and some race contracts.... (ok, they probably own some timing equipment, technical inspection equipment etc.) but the whole of their assets probably does not amount to much.....

[nanders]

You know Sanguin has not posted since Saturday..... To those of you who read autoracing1.com, I thought you might see some significance in that.....

It's not MarkC. I was thinking it's more likely Garrett Mudd.

[nanders]

Dunno about you guys, but I have a feeling of being dumped seeing how the "merger" is being implemented. Several classic races will bite the dust. A very decent OW racecar is rendered obsolete two years after being designed. Some CC teams will be reduced to backmarkers instead of racing for podiums and wins. That's very sad.

I mean if the merger makes business sense, can't it be done with dignity? I will give new series a try, but I'll see if I stick for long. I realize I'm just another overseas fan and nothing more, but I reckon a certain number of people will be ***** off like me, too.

Hang in there Rudy, let's give these guys a chance at creating a new formula. Should happen for 2010. If all these really smart guys can't get it together enough for a great car in 2010 then maybe they deserve the result.

[heelntoe]

I would say 40-50 Panoz chasis and the cosworth's that are now in them are worth quite a bit.

Where do you get this info? There are only 29 chassis and are not owned by CCWS

[clydekart]

Where do you get this info? There are only 29 chassis and are not owned by CCWS

That was a projected number originally stated by one of the owners to properly run a series. But, you are probably correct with your number (29) and if CC really doesn't own anything of value, then KK may have saw the demise of CC comming --self fulfilling prophecy--which explains a lot.

[Chris R]

It's not MarkC. I was thinking it's more likely Garrett Mudd.

That name sounds familiar, but I can't place it, who is he??

[Hoop-98]

Garrett Mudd Vice-President, Marketing OWRS

rh

[tbyars]

Clydekart, here is a very likely scenario.

First of all, please remember that virtually everything involved with CCWS is set up as a separate LLC, including the series itself.

CCWS, LLC is the series that sanctions CCWS races. It owns virtually nothing except the rights to a few race contracts and some safety and timing equipment. It leases the building (or did the last time I checked.) That is the single entity that will file for bankruptcy if the rumors are to be believed, and it will probably be Chapter 7 (as opposed to Chapter 11 like last time) because a financial reorganization really makes no sense in this case.

When that happens, all the races on the CCWS schedule are screwed, because they no longer have a series, CCWS, LLC, to sanction their event.

Some of those events - maybe all of them...who knows - will then approach the IRL to sanction their events. The IRL will then be able to determine, based on their previously arranged schedule for 2008, which races it will fit into its schedule. (Remember, if the IRL dropped some of its previously announced dates, IT could be sued for breaking the contract, and it ISN'T filing for bankruptcy.)

One of those events that will approach the IRL is the LBGP. That event is promoted by a company called Aquarium Assets, LLC, which happens to be owned by KK & GF. But it is TOTALLY separate from CCWS, LLC, having no ties to the series whatsoever. So Aquarium Assets will contract with the IRL to sanction the LBGP in place of the now defunked CCWS, LLC.

There are a couple of other events that TG has made it known he will accommodate. As far as we know, none of those have any ties whatsoever to CCWS, LLC. Those promoters will contact the IRL about sanctioning their events as well. In total, three or four events will be added to the 2008 IRL schedule to fill the CCWS void if the rumors are to be believed.

If other former CCWS events approach the IRL to sanction their now-sanctionless events, TG has every right to tell them "no" because the event conflicts with his existing contracts. It's a free country; he can sanction those events he chooses to sanction. Those events will either have to cancel, find a replacement or run only with the support races they already have scheduled.

Those promoters now have the option of filing suit against the now-bankrupt CCWS, LLC for failure to honor their contract. Good luck collecting against a company who has filed bankruptcy. They can't sue the IRL, because the IRL had no contract OR obligation to sanction those events.

By the way, those 3 or 4 venues that end up on the IRL schedule would normally pay a sanction fee to the IRL. But, again, if news reports are to be believed, TG is going to cut them a deal - or maybe even eliminate the sanction fee altogether - for those events for a time.

The CCWS teams? They are now without a place to race. So Tony George has made an offer that makes it possible for them to join the IRL under favorable circumstances. TG will be doing business with the TEAMS DIRECTLY, not with the bankrupt CCWS, LLC. Also, the teams own the engine-less DP-01s. They just don't have anyplace where they can legally race. The engines are on some kind of lease (no one really knows what kind) with Cosworth, LLC, another totally seperate entity.

There have been some rumors that CCWS, LLC and the IRL have cut a financial deal to help make the bankrupt owners whole to some extent, and that is totally possible under this scenario. CCWS, LLC does have some assets, as previously stated, that a bankruptcy judge will auction off. Maybe TG goes into court this time and offers $10M for a few safety vehicles and some timing equipment. That's how the former CCWS, LLC owners get their financial payment. It still gives the IRL no liability for any of the old CCWS contracts because they just bought the specific assets.

That's my best guess on how this is going to pan out. It is not a merger in any sense of the word. It's not even a true consolidation. It is a series of events which includes CCWS, LLC filing for bankruptcy, and TG and the IRL making it possible for the teams of that former series to find a new home, and a few former venues to find a new sanctioning body.

[Chaparral66]

OK, aside from that, what's going on with this deal? :D

[FormerFF]

I think the rational thing to do would be for the parties to come to some sort of agreement to terminate CCWS at the end of this season, and announce it, say, in the month of May. Continue running both series this year with an orderly shutdown/transfer at the end of the 2008 season.

Of course, none of us expect rationality from either of these two parties, so who know what actually will happen.

[ZzZzZz]

How does the Atlantics series fit into this? Are they part of CCWS, LLC? There's value there, in the right hands.

Long Beach is an interesting situation. As the headliner is less important, and ALMS is quite capable of stepping up, they don't really need the IRL.

The current situation is like what made Rahal and Fernandez panic and jump ship a few years ago.

It's up to TG to make his series the most attractive option for teams to move to. We'll see how good a job he does, and what the net change in IRL and Indy entries are... Over time. Last couple times he suffered net losses in car count.

It *looks* like TG is trying to do the right things, but there's no guarantee this will be any more than a wash for the IRL and Indy.

[nanders]

I think the rational thing to do would be for the parties to come to some sort of agreement to terminate CCWS at the end of this season, and announce it, say, in the month of May. Continue running both series this year with an orderly shutdown/transfer at the end of the 2008 season.

Of course, none of us expect rationality from either of these two parties, so who know what actually will happen.

1. Too late ... genie's out of the bottle.

2. Can't keep them down on the farm after they've seen Paris.

3. Walker already gone:http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT