Thread: Which rally should they add to the WRC-calendar?

Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

This coming from the guy who was making an argument against a rally being possible in America based on something that happened forty years ago. The fact that you presented this as compelling evidence of anything at all makes me question the validity of everything else you have said. I find it hilarious that you seem to think this qualifies as "direct first-hand experience" of rallying, while you have conveniently ignored the way the city I suggested could host a rally already hosts a world-class off-road racing event.

Gee, those Denverites really have no idea know what they're doing. What's eighty-nine world-class events compared to something that was mismanaged forty years ago in Michigan?

Whatever your name is, stop being stupid.
I work every single day on rally parts and projects and am in touch email and phone with drivers and event organisers all over USA and Canada.
My expereince is TODAY, this evening and here. Yours we have no idea execpt you like to type nonsense and like to argue.

You fool, I have said there is maybe 15 rallyists in Denver or Colorado, I know virtually every one, and have supplied major parts I build and advice to them on building, motors brakes, suspension and "approach" to the sport.
I have already said taht there are no rallies for hundreds and hundreds of miles--
Nearest is Rally Idaho, 1352 km, or Hundred acre Woods in Salem , MO, also about 1350 km, next is Bemidji Minnesota 1600km then Mt Hood, Oregon, 2060km. Nothing local, no organisers, no volunteers.
Why do you keep blabbering about this? You know nothing of the scene on the ground, not 25 years ago, not today so shut up about rally in Denver and in USA, and talk about what you do know, where ever it is you are--talk about your participation--you do participate in some role we must presume if you are so argumentative.
Or, is your whole involvement in rally arguing on forums?

Again we WERE trying to talk about what events to add to the WRC--which is of course total pub talk, but we weren't talking about hosting closed course off road races in Denver---Off Road IS popular there and there IS a designated off road playground called CORE---and all my fiends in Denver paid membership to the place and the Off-road guys, feeling a bit sorry for the poor *******s, were nice enough to bulldoze a nice loop for the poor rally guys. Too bad that CORE is teetering on bankruptcy since the US economy was wrecked by Wall Street speculators and a lot of very silly people..And a lot of absurd people who blabbed about things they knew nothing of.

I said before, with some silly name and not even the courage to put a name and a location, your words, all of them, are useless.
I will not have an anonymous nobody tell me that I don't know the problems we're all facing here in USA now, especially since it has changed so much since I began with this sport.

So again, put up a name and a location, tell us what role you have in the sport so we see why we should listen to you.
Or STFU.

Okay, I think you're taking things a little bit too seriously here. The idea of a rally in America was only ever fantasy on my part. As you yourself pointed out, this was only ever intended to be pub talk, and that is as far as this conversation is going.

Some Interesting arguments here.

The reason I tend to come back to the US is the following; when a sport is picked up, and commercialised in USA, things start to happen. Look to road cycling, off road cycling, soccer, and now rally cross.

The special thing in the US is that most sports that become big, have two elements in them. Most are happening in a small area where you as a spectator see it all, or they have a good way of producing on TV.

Rally has a challenge here. If you make it too compact, you are down to Mickey Mouse Mini Rally types events, so you need a larger area. As a spectator you do not see the cars much, and TV and Internet coverage have not kept up with time and technology.

If Rally is to succeed in the US, the key will be to start updating the tech side. Start using streaming, and have side by side video of drivers, split times, results, live tech data - as revs gearing, g- force, interviews and so on awailable online.

So the spectator can follow his or her preferred drivers live, and keep up to date with all types of results. Fewer and fewer are willing to walk for miles and see the cars for a few seconds, but miss out on the bigger picture.
All of this can of course be reached from mobile devices at the stages, or from home!

If FIA and RedBull start working in that direction, they will have a chance of winning the US, and winning larger crowds of fans in the rest of the world as well!!

Surely you have events to suit each market. So, if there was a US round, you would have a ultra compact fan friendly event. Isn't that common sense? People have been brainwashed by the 'one size fits all' WRC modern event. The time has come for each event to do what they want - and what suits each event.

Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

Okay, I think you're taking things a little bit too seriously here. The idea of a rally in America was only ever fantasy on my part. As you yourself pointed out, this was only ever intended to be pub talk, and that is as far as this conversation is going.

Of course I take this seriously, whatever the ______ you are, my living depends on the heath of the sport since I manufacture things, it's just keyboard fapping to you--obviously. And as I said, the sport is suffering ---and therefore I am suffering---since in America, so many motorsport oriented tend to egomaniacs, and asocial, and apolitical and many are mistakenly thinking they are smarter than, just like you, people with decades more direct experience. So just like millions bought houses on credit that they couldn't afford, there have always been too many here that buy cars and pour money into making them into rally cars at rates they can't afford, tow rigs have to be the latest, and then they drop out after maybe 5 events over 2 years...

So brainless dream talk, I'm sick of it. Got it? Pie in the Sky---screw that, done it when there was twice the participation. Screw it. This gawddam country needs a firm foundation built, and always has.

It need the associated connections that happens with there is a diverse entry with 100-150 guys entering, not 15 like now.

It REMAINS on a level of about 2 clubs in any decent country because the idiot talk you've been doing done by dreamy eyed guys in garages all by themselves---or lied to by greedy and cynical business (lying to them that "the big time is just around the corner, spend LOTS now and you'll get a sponsorship from Subaru!!!) and arguing ---exactly like you've been doing.

IF this was a pub and some obviously completely ignorant ass___________ were to start fantasizing about some utterly and THEN start mouthing off with crap like " that makes me doubt the validity of EVERYTHING you said" and goes on and on NEVER ONCE adding a single morsel to indicate he knew ANYTHING, and never once acknowledging a single piece of the piles of info supplied, I think somebody would be real close to being a bit ruffled up. especialy the seat of their pant might be getting ruffled by a large shoe.


And you STILL have taken the cowardly course and not said who you are, where you are and just what you do in rally, and for that you're dropped right in the category of total keyboard hero.

John, although the conversation has gotten a little wayward, I understand what you're saying and you're absolutely correct.

The WRC is about the greatest drivers in the greatest events. And great events are developed ... you do not create them overnight.
Without a history and a strong infrastructure you will simply not develop the expertise required to run a specialised event at this level.

Rally NZ, as an example, benefits from an army of volunteers, filling roles from the lowly block marshall right up to the Clerk of Course, who have decades of learning and progression which they would not have achieved had the sport not been strong here.

In the events that I'm involved with, we invest hugely in sending our people to other events to both mentor and be mentored to ensure that when the pressure is on they perform their tasks instinctively. And there is no greater pressure than a WRC round.

That is why NZ rally officials are in such huge demand around the globe supporting, advising, mentoring other organisers.
If you shut the door on such events, opting for countries 'with the big markets', you remove the incentive for this progression and the expertise will be lost to detriment of the sport as a whole.

And don't think it will be substituted by people from the new territories. It won't. Those with the capacity to buy ... don't build.

If a country hasn't embraced the sport of rallying, at all of it's levels, they are not likely to consider the WRC highly when it arrives for a 3 day visit, and frankly, they don't deserve the opportunity.

There are still regular eastern US events that draw 45-60 cars. I'd say the Michigan/Minnesota/Missouri area is the best bet but then that's because those are the events where I can easily volunteer and regularly attend. Talk to the local organizers and their two biggest problems are working with local governments (particularly 100 Acre Wood which is spread across four counties and as many towns) and finding enough locals to be organizers next year. There's not much shortage of volunteers and there are a few hundred people that come in to spectate in addition to support crews. Like I said before accommodations would be the real problem with a WRC round at most US locations.

Brazil. They're in the news, they have the money, they should have the support and they have the rally area as Nobre has said

Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

Brazil. They're in the news, they have the money, they should have the support and they have the rally area as Nobre has said

Should is a very slippery word and I think it should be forbidden.
But since you brought up slippery things Brasilienne, they have the babes, millions of them, and very famously friendly..
Veeeeery friendly aj aj aj!
I believe there would be the danger that the WRC "Circus" would go there and then, after then after all the guys are showered with attention with and fought over by the beautiful locals wimmins, just decide not to leave. Ever.

Somebody should look into that danger. I'm older and more experienced in that area that all you guys, and I can probably handle it, somebody should forward my name to FIA and I'll pack my bags. PM me thru the forum or just Google "JVAB".
After I'm done we should know if it's safe to send the men of WRC to Brasil

Poland

Originally Posted by wrc1600

Poland

Why not?! Good roads, good scenery, good organization, close to Estland, Lituania, Latvia, Ukraine, Russia and Finland is just across the water, Czech isn't far, could be good entry. I just was speaking with a guy here in USA who called about rallysuspension for his Subarau, and he said that area they ran before is his home area, said its very fun roads, good surface, lots of twisty bits.

Bring back Corsica and San Remo.

No asphalt rally has the flavour of Corsica, even now that is in IRC. I have been in Rally d' Alsace, Rally of Germany, Catalunia and I can say that all of them fall behind Corsica by far. Surely, because of their location they have more spectators, but once you have seen just one Corsican special stage you realize that "asphalt rallying=Corsica". Period.

Also, I have been in Sardinia and I like it a lot, but old asphalt-gravel San Remo in Tuscany was something else. Rallying is not just special stages. It is also the atmosphere, the environment and the character that an event must have.

Regarding US, for God's sake, no, no, no. Rallying is simply out of the American culture and, most important, totally out of the culture of American car industry. Back in the '80s FIA tried it and it was a total failure. There were whole special stages without a single spectator. Even the empty stages of Turkey and Mexico could be called crowded in comparison to the ones in US.

Originally Posted by scn

Bring back Corsica and San Remo.

No asphalt rally has the flavour of Corsica, even now that is in IRC. I have been in Rally d' Alsace, Rally of Germany, Catalunia and I can say that all of them fall behind Corsica by far. Surely, because of their location they have more spectators, but once you have seen just one Corsican special stage you realize that "asphalt rallying=Corsica". Period.

Also, I have been in Sardinia and I like it a lot, but old asphalt-gravel San Remo in Tuscany was something else. Rallying is not just special stages. It is also the atmosphere, the environment and the character that an event must have.

Regarding US, for God's sake, no, no, no. Rallying is simply out of the American culture and, most important, totally out of the culture of American car industry. Back in the '80s FIA tried it and it was a total failure. There were whole special stages without a single spectator. Even the empty stages of Turkey and Mexico could be called crowded in comparison to the ones in US.

Corse et san Remo...both fantastic (of course if they choose real roads in Corse)...

But re Olympus running stages without a single speccie. I was at '85 (FIA shakedown year) I drove '86, was at 87 and was service --organised the 2 trucks and 5 local volunteers for Canadian P Champion Liall Leslie at the last one in '88.
What you say is completely untrue.. On most stages there were at least 8 to 10 spectators and some stages as many as 50 in one place in the early years. By '88 there were a few less but at leeast at the Finish ceremony, there were, aside from service crews and event workers there were maybe 30 faces I didn't recognize.
So there!

Why did the FIA reduce the calander to 13 events? Would'nt it be easier to attrack new/legendary events to the WRC if the calander was extended?

Originally Posted by Plan9

Why did the FIA reduce the calander to 13 events? Would'nt it be easier to attrack new/legendary events to the WRC if the calander was extended?

From endless complaints of costs from the manufacturer teams is what I recall.

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

From endless complaints of costs from the manufacturer teams is what I recall.

i.e. Citroen & Ford. That didn't helped other Japanese teams to stay in WRC though.

Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

Brazil. They're in the news, they have the money, they should have the support and they have the rally area as Nobre has said

The FIA was considering adding as many as two rallies to the 2013 calendar, with Brazil, India, Russia and South Africa all considered for inclusion before the plan was abandoned.

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

What you say is completely untrue.. On most stages there were at least 8 to 10 spectators and some stages as many as 50 in one place in the early years. By '88 there were a few less but at leeast at the Finish ceremony, there were, aside from service crews and event workers there were maybe 30 faces I didn't recognize.
So there!

You need to come east for Sno*Drift some time, assuming you can still handle the cold! There actually are crowds out there nowadays. I'm always looking for people to volunteer with timekeeping since the equipment is starting to wear out...

Can we please agree to disagree that if there is a rally in the USA it would both be a success and failure. We have people saying yes there are supporters, yes there are people, yes people will go. We have some saying where are the people going to come from, who will run it and if there will be any drivers/teams. We have people saying it has worked in the past (70's/80's) and some saying it didn't work. We have people who drove and spectated and some people who have never been or seen rallies in the US. I think this banter should stop. If the rally happens in the US then it will. If it doesn't then it won't. People here are saying rallies in the WRC calendar have had decades and history so that is the reason why they are in the WRC... but at one stage they had to start!! You can start a US rally or a Canadian rally or Brazillian rally for the WRC. That's where the History will BEGIN. Whether someone says it won't or will work is just back and forth in the forum/Thread. Yes we can and this is a place to discuss but it's going from yes to no to yes to no - and none of us are getting anywhere. Can we change the way the US people see rally? I'm not sure. I think its best to keep it an E X T R E M E sport like gymkhana and X-games... simplifies it for the market there with the Blocks and Pastramas.