Thread: Please BMW, something different this time!! (an open letter)

Reasoned answers as always Mr Dunnell. I would imagine that Prodrive expected something more in the way of sponsors, whether they expected too much is a different matter. I don't think it would be unreasonable for them to have believed that they could snare a largish main sponsor, not to the scale of Red Bull but still a main sponsor. At a guess I would say that they were aware that they could build a quick car, and therefore would expect sponsors to latch on (I know that I expected it to happen). Without knowing the budget that they set, or the charges they levied at potential sponsors, it's difficult to say either way.

It's true that there isn't a lot of mainstream stuff about the WRC, but then I can't remember seeing a lot of Subaru adverts when they were winning everything, so I'm not sure if that's a recent thing or the way it's been since the early 90s. What I do know is that MINI, Michelin and Citroen regularly ran newspaper adverts boasting of success in the WRC last season.

+1 I agree. About some sponsors there were some pretty wild rumors on here awhile ago about what kind of company Prodrive was trying to attract. Can anyone remember how long the Countryman Chassis has for homologation? Something like until 2018? Are we to assume that someone will be using these cars for something for awhile yet?

So BMW in their efforts to do serious research are being overtalked by a lobby to get into PD´s Mini project? And from the lobby´s word take decisions? That wouldn´t have been a serious evaluation.

Back to the 70´s means for example what happend just after - Audi started rallying with 4wd. Before they were nothing, I repeat nothing. Without rallying Audi would probably still be nothing...

Originally Posted by Rallyper

So BMW in their efforts to do serious research are being overtalked by a lobby to get into PD´s Mini project? And from the lobby´s word take decisions? That wouldn´t have been a serious evaluation.

Back to the 70´s means for example what happend just after - Audi started rallying with 4wd. Before they were nothing, I repeat nothing. Without rallying Audi would probably still be nothing...

But that is completely different, what Audi did was revolutionary. They changed automotive culture altogether. The Mini WRC is a completely different kettle of fish.

Also back in the stone age of the seventies marketing and economy was completely different... if you try to play by the rules of 40 years back in the modern era you are doomed... especially when we talk about huge companies like automotive manufacturers.

Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Ford will get more publicity from their sponsoring of the Champions League than winning the WRC. Simple....
Manufacturers are in it to sell more cars, anything that helps them achieve that is deemed worthwhile. I haven't seen a Ford WRC advert for years.
I want nothing more than a strong, competitive WRC with more Manufacturers, drivers, coverage, etc..but it's a long way from being there.
If I was the Motorsport boss of a car company, I wouldn't be looking at the WRC at the moment.

Fair point, but with Ford's estimated spend on the Champion's League being valued at €100 million over the next 3 years, their WRC spend is but a drop in the ocean.

Ford probably spend on activating one match what they spend on a whole season of WRC....

Originally Posted by rallyfiend

Ford probably spend on activating one match what they spend on a whole season of WRC....

yes but the publicity they got was probably the same as they would get from the involvement in the WRC for 10 years...

you cannot compete with mainstream ladyboy sports like Football and F1 when everyone and their mothers are watching it... WRC will never be like that.

And the people involved must understand that and act accordingly...in that way both the sport and the manufacturers will benefit.

The WRC should leave the FIA and form its own governing body...you cannot have a company that makes billions from one sport to govern another one...it is inevitable they will ignore the little brother...i would do it, you would do it, everyone would do it....you will allways feed the cow that produces the most milk.

Originally Posted by N.O.T

yes but the publicity they got was probably the same as they would get from the involvement in the WRC for 10 years...

you cannot compete with mainstream ladyboy sports like Football and F1 when everyone and their mothers are watching it... WRC will never be like that.

And the people involved must understand that and act accordingly...in that way both the sport and the manufacturers will benefit.

The WRC should leave the FIA and form its own governing body...you cannot have a company that makes billions from one sport to govern another one...it is inevitable they will ignore the little brother...i would do it, you would do it, everyone would do it....you will allways feed the cow that produces the most milk.

The sad thing is though, the FIA does not make billions from F1.
They sold it for 100 years for circa $300 million a few years back, and all that money is now held by the FIA Foundation - a chartable trust over which President todt has no control.
They would be paid a nominal fee to provide sporting services for FOM. That's it.
that's why the WRC is probably run the way it is without the freedom of a proper promoter. They're scared of what they did for F1.

Originally Posted by rallyfiend

The sad thing is though, the FIA does not make billions from F1.
They sold it for 100 years for circa $300 million a few years back, and all that money is now held by the FIA Foundation - a chartable trust over which President todt has no control.
They would be paid a nominal fee to provide sporting services for FOM. That's it.
that's why the WRC is probably run the way it is without the freedom of a proper promoter. They're scared of what they did for F1.

you believe the above things you said ??

Originally Posted by N.O.T

you believe the above things you said ??

Maybe you might like to explain why you don't?

well the second part makes no sense... FIA afraids the wrc becomes popular in case someone asks to buy it and they sell it ??? well guess what... THEY DO NOT SELL IT !!! and they become rich by having the best motorsport under their control....its called learning from their mistakes....

On the first part...legal issues do not let me reply...

Originally Posted by N.O.T

well the second part makes no sense... FIA afraids the wrc becomes popular in case someone asks to buy it and they sell it ??? well guess what... THEY DO NOT SELL IT !!! and they become rich by having the best motorsport under their control....its called learning from their mistakes....

On the first part...legal issues do not let me reply...

The FIA is a not a commercial body, they do not have the expertise to run a sport. They know this, and that's why they sell / lease championship to proper commercial entities.
One could argue that F1 got so popular because it has always had a promoter with total commercial control. this then allowed the FIA to benefit from the 300 million after someone else had done the hard work.
The WRC has always remained a political football for things like the calendar control, which they have never given to anyone else. Perhaps that is why the sport is in the position that it is. No ability for someone thinking with a straight mind to chose well run events or take the sport more quickly to where the money is.
Do you think a proper promoter would have chosen Jordan over Abu Dhabi? Would many of the other poor events like Sardinia or others still be on the calendar. Would RallyGB have been allowed to fester the way it has in recent years other than for the influence of the some of the MSA political elites in the FIA?

As for the first part, this is all on public record. I can't for the life of me conceive why you think you would be so influential or knowledgable as to have any information that would cause any legal concerns.

Put up, or shut up, as they say.

Originally Posted by N.O.T

yes but the publicity they got was probably the same as they would get from the involvement in the WRC for 10 years...

you cannot compete with mainstream ladyboy sports like Football and F1 when everyone and their mothers are watching it... WRC will never be like that.

And the people involved must understand that and act accordingly...in that way both the sport and the manufacturers will benefit.

The WRC should leave the FIA and form its own governing body...you cannot have a company that makes billions from one sport to govern another one...it is inevitable they will ignore the little brother...i would do it, you would do it, everyone would do it....you will allways feed the cow that produces the most milk.

Agree with the first part, but not the second.
The sport isn't as big or successful as everybody in it thinks. As such, they need to cut their cloth accordingly.


There's no way they will/or can leave the FiA....And anyway, the FiA don't promote or run Motorsport, they govern it. Remember Max selling the 99 years rights to F1 for a pittance - and gave away any rights over the calendar. Which is why they still have the final say on the WRC calendar.

Originally Posted by rallyfiend

The FIA is a not a commercial body, they do not have the expertise to run a sport. They know this, and that's why they sell / lease championship to proper commercial entities.
One could argue that F1 got so popular because it has always had a promoter with total commercial control. this then allowed the FIA to benefit from the 300 million after someone else had done the hard work.
The WRC has always remained a political football for things like the calendar control, which they have never given to anyone else. Perhaps that is why the sport is in the position that it is. No ability for someone thinking with a straight mind to chose well run events or take the sport more quickly to where the money is.
Do you think a proper promoter would have chosen Jordan over Abu Dhabi? Would many of the other poor events like Sardinia or others still be on the calendar. Would RallyGB have been allowed to fester the way it has in recent years other than for the influence of the some of the MSA political elites in the FIA?

As for the first part, this is all on public record. I can't for the life of me conceive why you think you would be so influential or knowledgable as to have any information that would cause any legal concerns.

Put up, or shut up, as they say.

how many non profit organisations do you know who are just that ??? Lets leave it there...

they do not have the expertise to run the sport but they have the expertise to govern it ?? hmmmmm

The word 'expertise' can only be loosely used to describe the FIA

Originally Posted by tommeke_B

IF FIA doesn't have the expertise to run a sport, who has it? A lot of words, but your post doesn't make sence... If you would follow F1 a little bit, you would know that there's a lot to do about the calendar there also, so not only in WRC... One good reason to chose Abu Dhabi over Jordan? Sardinia is a nice event, and since they're always in again it seems that the organisation there is doing a good job. And what other poor events are you talking about?

Easy to criticise, time to "defend" your arguments...

When I say 'run' a sport, I mean promote. To commercialise, to grow. This is what Bernie has been able to do to F1 with the hands-off approach taken by the FIA (when I say 'taken' I of course mean 'forced on them by contract'!).

Why was the IRC able to grow so quickly in it's first few years? Because it was fully in the control of a commercial promoter who could pick and choose the best option for their business plan. It's how they were able to take Monte away - they could say to them 'do what you want'.
That's never been allowed in the WRC.
To chose Abu Dhabi over Jordan? Ask Malcolm how his budget is without the money from Abu Dhabi. Did't they leave because they got dumped off the calendar twice because of politics inside of FIA? How is that good for the sport? That must have been many millions leaving.
Sardinia might be a good event (it wasn't when I went a couple of years ago, you wouldn't have even know the event was on) but surely San Remo would be better?
Now as for Wales Rally GB. I have been to that event many times as it is my 'local' and it is terrible. last year was a disgrace in terms of Service Park and promotion. Especially considering what they charge for tickets.

Originally Posted by rallyfiend

Sardinia might be a good event (it wasn't when I went a couple of years ago, you wouldn't have even know the event was on)

My relatives had the same feeling when they attended Rally NZ in the first half of 2000s

So why isn´t WRC "fully in the control of a commercial promoter who could pick and choose the best option for their business plan"? FIA just should set the rules or maybe even not that. But running WRC doesn´t seem to be a ggod work for them.
(Are we a bit of topic now?)

Originally Posted by rallyfiend

The FIA is a not a commercial body, they do not have the expertise to run a sport. They know this, and that's why they sell / lease championship to proper commercial entities.

The FIA is not allowed to be a commercial body. This has been well established in the '90s. They are only allowed to govern, the commercial activities are to be undertaken by a promotor or the organisers themselves.

One could argue that F1 got so popular because it has always had a promoter with total commercial control. this then allowed the FIA to benefit from the 300 million after someone else had done the hard work.

This is not what actually happened in history. And still, the WRC had a promotor for more than 10 years now and it only went downhill since.

The WRC has always remained a political football for things like the calendar control, which they have never given to anyone else. Perhaps that is why the sport is in the position that it is. No ability for someone thinking with a straight mind to chose well run events or take the sport more quickly to where the money is.
Do you think a proper promoter would have chosen Jordan over Abu Dhabi? Would many of the other poor events like Sardinia or others still be on the calendar. Would RallyGB have been allowed to fester the way it has in recent years other than for the influence of the some of the MSA political elites in the FIA?

Just look at the demands the FIA places on organisers. You can be absolutely sure every event is as safe and wellrun as possible. The event may not be well promoted, but again, that is not the FIAs job but the organisers.