Thread: Prodrive Mini WRC

Originally Posted by bluuford

Today I did some skiing and I was thinking about this BMW press release during the whole 21 km. So, and 2 km before the end I undrestood what is going on.

FIA wanted Mini to do all 13rounds. Prodrive did not had money to do so and FIA was not happy. You are not allowed to homologate new parts when you are not registered as a full Manufacturer and you are not doing all 13 rounds (less rounds are allowed during the first year only). So, finally, BMW found the solution that AA and PN are both doing the full season. So, they got an agreement form FIA that AA and PN will be registered as one team and therefore they meet the minimal requirement to do all rounds with two cars.

Prodrive does not need to take part in all rounds now and then they can use this saved money (by missing some long haul events) for the development of the car. I assume that they still get some money from BMW for development

Finally, signature must be written by BMW, so the German company has full control on all kind of homologations and maybe they can aquire intellectual rights for those new parts as well. How? Maybe their investments depend on the number of homologated parts and basically they buy the rights of those new parts? So, basically, BMW does not need to invest more money than they wanted and they invest only in development not running the car.

They can continue development and when the promotion situation is cleared then it is much easier to join the seires with full backing and competitive car (when they own all rights etc, then they can easily bring the development inhouse).

So, what Prodrive gains? Their engineers get paid for innovation and they can demonstrate and test those parts on their team. At the same time they can earn some money by building renting the cars to customers.

You get my vote !!!

Originally Posted by bt52b

Now will Sordo have to park for 20mins so the works team can sore better points?

Shows how farcial the WRC and many of the FIA championship rules are, the manufacturer team #1 won't let team #2 have a better finish.

What happens if Prodrive pick up some sponsorship for the second half of he year, will BMW allow Prodrive to beat the 'works' Mini team?

Yes hysterical isn't it?

I mean how can you rationalize that a team made up of AA and PN will be a better long term for financial and results than Sordo and Meeke. Absolutely INSANE!

Originally Posted by Barreis

So Araujo and Nobre has money for full season and Prodrive hasn't?! Oh, yeah...

No. Araújo has big difficults to have money for the whole season. He lost sponsors this year.

Richard's hunger for money never stops.

Originally Posted by bluuford

Today I did some skiing and I was thinking about this BMW press release during the whole 21 km. So, and 2 km before the end I undrestood what is going on.

FIA wanted Mini to do all 13rounds. Prodrive did not had money to do so and FIA was not happy. You are not allowed to homologate new parts when you are not registered as a full Manufacturer and you are not doing all 13 rounds (less rounds are allowed during the first year only). So, finally, BMW found the solution that AA and PN are both doing the full season. So, they got an agreement form FIA that AA and PN will be registered as one team and therefore they meet the minimal requirement to do all rounds with two cars.

Prodrive does not need to take part in all rounds now and then they can use this saved money (by missing some long haul events) for the development of the car. I assume that they still get some money from BMW for development

Finally, signature must be written by BMW, so the German company has full control on all kind of homologations and maybe they can aquire intellectual rights for those new parts as well. How? Maybe their investments depend on the number of homologated parts and basically they buy the rights of those new parts? So, basically, BMW does not need to invest more money than they wanted and they invest only in development not running the car.

They can continue development and when the promotion situation is cleared then it is much easier to join the seires with full backing and competitive car (when they own all rights etc, then they can easily bring the development inhouse).

So, what Prodrive gains? Their engineers get paid for innovation and they can demonstrate and test those parts on their team. At the same time they can earn some money by building renting the cars to customers.

This is basically what I meant in my replies in this matter. The only ones loosing money is FIA. Everone else is having the upper side. BMW and PD still are cooperating and so will be.

Originally Posted by Plan9

Yes hysterical isn't it?

I mean how can you rationalize that a team made up of AA and PN will be a better long term for financial and results than Sordo and Meeke. Absolutely INSANE!

Unless you were present at the board meetings and have full understanding of the issues and intents you are clearly not qualified to make such a judgement.

In actual fact, this whole situation may be exactly what the WRC needs. Notwithstanding that Prodrive began the Mini WRC programme, and hold the technical expertise & IP, we now have a situation where a 'private' team will not only be competing with the factory team on the same level, with the same machinery but, in all likelihood, will lead the way.
If it can endure it may well be a model picked up by other manufacturers.

Originally Posted by sollitt

Unless you were present at the board meetings and have full understanding of the issues and intents you are clearly not qualified to make such a judgement.

In actual fact, this whole situation may be exactly what the WRC needs. Notwithstanding that Prodrive began the Mini WRC programme, and hold the technical expertise & IP, we now have a situation where a 'private' team will not only be competing with the factory team on the same level, with the same machinery but, in all likelihood, will lead the way.
If it can endure it may well be a model picked up by other manufacturers.

I was driving down from skiing thinking this same thing. It's as if m-sport team got the newest parts and the ford factory were "customer" cars. Kinda does suck for Prodrive though, I wonder how much they spent on promotion and advertising that could have been used to remain in the championship and out of this mess.

I haven´t participated in the forum for a while but I think there are one or two things worth mentioning.

As frustrating as this Mini thing is, I don´t find it fair or accurate to place Armindo in the same league as Paulo Nobre. Paulo is a great guy and a self-confessed gentleman driver.

Armindo is a professional rally driver who has struggled his entire career to be given a chance of proving his worth at the highest level after winning multiple national championships and 2 PWRC titles. The problem is (was) that he may have arrived too late on the scene when he began his PWRC campaign in 07 (28 years old if my memory serves me right).

I believe that with proper resources, proper testing he is capable of at least a points finnish on every rally and maybe one or two surprises mainly on tarmac events. Surely not enough to be considered a deserving full-blown official driver but it's not his fault that this thing dropped on his lap.

So to my mind there is a clear difference here between him and Paulo. And if on one hand i'm sadenned by this string of events, on the other i'm happy for Armindo to be given the chance for a year at least.

And contrary to popular belief, A.A. didn´t have the money to do the whole season. Maybe the European rounds if he was lucky. Until these news he was going on a rally by rally basis.

Having said that of course that the situation in itself is idiotic. As are many others nowadays in the WRC.

I think since the ideal solution of Sordo/Meeke was not possible, maybe Sordo(clear nº1)/Armindo could be at least more interesting and I´m sure manufacturer points for M1 team would be achievable on a regular basis.

For 2013 Mini must get their act together.

So Mr Nobre is waiting for the R-GT class to do gentlemans battle in ?!

Originally Posted by BDunnell

Ought we not to point out one thing to one member: that Martin Holmes was right?

No he wasn't

as usual he gave us his biased point of view not the facts...

how old is he anyway ?? 97 ??

Originally Posted by N.O.T

No he wasn't

as usual he gave us his biased point of view not the facts...

how old is he anyway ?? 97 ??

Oh dear, parallel universe for you?

why he is more than 97 ??

Originally Posted by N.O.T

why he is more than 97 ??

maybe in your star trek years

This whole issue is farcical. I'm a WRC fan, and I have no idea what is going on. So what about casual fans? In fact does anyone have a clue about what is really going on? The article with the Mini boss saying how great it was to have 3 podiums in 7 starts, what planet is he on? The driver who scored these results has now been demoted to a 'works-supported private' drive. Why do mini think they are better off with an average Joe, and a snail driving the cars that the world we see as the 'works' cars.

Actually, looking at it from a different point of view the world wont see them making fools of themselves because the WRC wont even be on TV for all the rounds as I can see it at the moment. When I started watching Rallying I never thought it would take such a dive in so many ways.

Originally Posted by Doon

This whole issue is farcical. I'm a WRC fan, and I have no idea what is going on. So what about casual fans? In fact does anyone have a clue about what is really going on? The article with the Mini boss saying how great it was to have 3 podiums in 7 starts, what planet is he on? The driver who scored these results has now been demoted to a 'works-supported private' drive. Why do mini think they are better off with an average Joe, and a snail driving the cars that the world we see as the 'works' cars.

Actually, looking at it from a different point of view the world wont see them making fools of themselves because the WRC wont even be on TV for all the rounds as I can see it at the moment. When I started watching Rallying I never thought it would take such a dive in so many ways.

It´s politics. And I think we shall not put big issue of who is private or factory driver at this point.

Main thing is that Mini and BMW is still on the track. And PD as their developer. Let´s then see what happens in a few months, and mainly in 2013.

Very bad news: Prodrive, Sordo and Name do not compete in Mexico

Strange that Name received the car to testing and now do not compete in Rally of Mexico.

Originally Posted by sollitt

Unless you were present at the board meetings and have full understanding of the issues and intents you are clearly not qualified to make such a judgement.

In actual fact, this whole situation may be exactly what the WRC needs. Notwithstanding that Prodrive began the Mini WRC programme, and hold the technical expertise & IP, we now have a situation where a 'private' team will not only be competing with the factory team on the same level, with the same machinery but, in all likelihood, will lead the way.
If it can endure it may well be a model picked up by other manufacturers.

Interesting point. But I don't think that having Motorsport Italia involved as the works team is a bad idea. Even considering the little things like dealing with media and press. Will BMW now have to push out releases praising Nobre and Arujo while not mentioning that the Red and White cars are actually doing much better.

I don't think there is any logic in having an outside team use the same technology as a works outfit and win. It caused issues for Red Bull in F1 and I don't think BMW will want to repeat that. Having a lot of customers in this ear seems to be the thing to do but it is also important to keep these customers at arms length so they don't humiliate the factory boys. Sad but true. With Motorsport Italia it seems that BMW has just inverted this convention and it will remain to be seen if this was a good idea or not. BUT I am glad that there has been a temporary solution to this problem. I think if MINI continues in the WRC BMW will want to take as much of the program in-house as possible.

This thing with Prodrive not going to Mexico is pretty much what I wrote yesterday. This is the start of the wind down. I can see them doing another few European rounds convenient to the UK but if they are still going by Rally Deutschland I will be surprised.

As a business unless they are severely contractually obligated there is little point in continuing. Prodrive needs manufacturer backing and finance in addition to sponsorship to make a full programme viable.

They will not land another car maker in the WRC if there name is constantly attached to Mini.

Sordo "I know nothing"

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