Thread: [WRC] News & rumours (part II)

Prisoner Monkeys - yes I agree. Ok I get this... but not the usage of the Team Name. It belongs to AA and should not be used.

Araujo can still own the team name, even if he is not racing for them.

But he has not given them permission to USE the name! He wants it OFF the team.

He gave them permission to use it when he formed the team. For him to demand that they stop using it now just because he lost his drive is akin to throwing his toys out of the pram. Especially since he needed Mini's permission to use "Mini" in the team name in the first place.

Araujo appears to be trying to force his way back into the team by way of his ownership of the team name. Changing a team name mid-season is a complicated and costly process, and Araujo is probably trying to use the threat of losing manufacturer status to manhandle his way back in. All Mini has to do is buy the trademark from him, and he's got nothing. A trademark won't sell for so much that Araujo could establish his own team again.

Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

All Mini has to do is buy the trademark from him, and he's got nothing. A trademark won't sell for so much that Araujo could establish his own team again.

Mini Portugal supports Armindo Araújo, not Motorsport Italy.

Don't forget that the name of the team is WRC Team Mini Portugal.

This is not a british or german name, is a portuguese company.

In fact FIA seems useless as a sport authority, as they charge a license but at the end can't control the use of it.

I tell you why FIA don't do nothing: Because this Mini saga was a big mess to FIA, and if the team is not allowed to start the mess would be worse and bigger. So, they close their eyes.

The solution to Armindo? To go to the civil court, because the sport court is useless.

Originally Posted by JAM

In fact FIA seems useless as a sport authority, as they charge a license but at the end can't control the use of it.

I tell you why FIA don't do nothing: Because this Mini saga was a big mess to FIA, and if the team is not allowed to start the mess would be worse and bigger. So, they close their eyes.

No, they don't do anything because they can't do anything. There is nothing in the FIA charter that gives them any power to control who uses a certain name, and when. In order to be accepted for use by a team, a name must a) be an actual word (when Formula 1 team HRT joined the grid, they wanted to be known as "Hispania Racing Team", but the FIA did not recognise "Hispania" as a word), b) not be similar to or the same as a name used by an existing team, and c) not be offensive or slanderous in any way.

The FIA cannot intervene on Araujo's behalf, because they do not have the power to. They can only act based on their own rules and regulations, and if they try to step outside those - as they did when they gave Flavio Briatore a life ban from Formula 1 - it can get very, very messy.

Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

b) not be similar to or the same as a name used by an existing team

that's why we had two Lotus Renault teams last year?? FIA do the blind eyes when they want to, and do exaggerated stuff when they want to. no transparency at all with their decisions, especially this year

Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

The FIA cannot intervene on Araujo's behalf, because they do not have the power to. They can only act based on their own rules and regulations, and if they try to step outside those - as they did when they gave Flavio Briatore a life ban from Formula 1 - it can get very, very messy.

Is FIA who issues the licences and charges for them. So is FIA responsability to assure that the use of them is legal. If the owner of a licence informs FIA that don't authorize that someone uses it, then FIA must no accept that licence on a santioned event.

It seems that FIA is there only to receive the money for the licences...

Originally Posted by JAM

Is FIA who issues the licences and charges for them. So is FIA responsability to assure that the use of them is legal. If the owner of a licence informs FIA that don't authorize that someone uses it, then FIA must no accept that licence on a santioned event.

Araujo's case is one for the courts to decide, given that he is claiming an unfair dismissal. The FIA cannot simply revoke the team's licence on Araujo's say-so simply because he was dropped by the team. If a civilian court rules that Araujo has a case, then the FIA can act. Ever since the Briatore case, when Briatore challenge the FIA's right to ban him for life and won, the FIA has deferred to courts first. They won't act without a judgement, especially since they only have Araujo's word for it that he was unfairly dismissed from the team.

Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

They won't act without a judgement, especially since they only have Araujo's word for it that he was unfairly dismissed from the team.

You must be jocking... then FIA don't have the registy of the owner of the licence?!?

What do you think would happen if the FIA terminated the racing licence based solely on Araujo's word that he was unfairly dismissed?

Motorsport Italia would file a counter-claim against the FIA, alleging that the FIA failed to do due diligence.

You can't really separate the two issues here, since they are mutually inclusive. Araujo claims that he was unfairly dismissed by the team, and now he wants them to stop using the name he registered. But if he was not dismissed by the team, they would continue to use the name he registered. You cannot separate one from the other. Therefore, the FIA must wait for the outcome of any legal proceedings in a civilian court before taing any action. For them to act early would be presumptuous. Especially now, since if they suspended the team's licence, the team would not be able to compete - which I suspect might be Araujo's objective: they fire him, so he does whatever he can to stop them from competing.

The FIA only has Araujo's word that he was unfairly dismissed by the team. He has to be able to prove it before anyone can do anything about it. For example, he claims that the team changed the time and location of testing days at the last minute, and that they did so to make him late and give them a ready-made excuse to fire him. But what if the team got to the location of the test, found that the roads were closed or being used or flooded, and were forced to change the location? They didn't know the roads were unuseable until the last minute, so ow can Araujo claim that they were acting unfairly?

I don't think Armindo will be getting back with Mini or Motorsport Italia after all this bull****. Its got to public and all the bad blood could make any future business relationship way to awkward. Why couldn't they replace Nobre instead? (I am only guessing but I assume he is paying way more for his green pig than Armindo did for the black one).

Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

What do you think would happen if the FIA terminated the racing licence based solely on Araujo's word that he was unfairly dismissed?

This is not based on Armindo's word, this is based on the registries.

Legally Armindo is the owner, it is registered on FIA documents. Only the owner can authorize or not a licence to be used.

What's you doubt abou it? Why do you insist that is only a word of Armindo? Obviously this is not a question of word, is a question of legal property of something.

Wich is the part that you didn't understood?

Originally Posted by Plan9

I don't think Armindo will be getting back with Mini or Motorsport Italia after all this bull****. Its got to public and all the bad blood could make any future business relationship way to awkward. Why couldn't they replace Nobre instead? (I am only guessing but I assume he is paying way more for his green pig than Armindo did for the black one).

Nobre is paying his car. Mini is paying the most part of Armindo's car, and now Atkinson's car.

Originally Posted by JAM

This is not based on Armindo's word, this is based on the registries.

Legally Armindo is the owner, it is registered on FIA documents. Only the owner can authorize or not a licence to be used.

I don't doubt that the team name was registered and owned by Araujo.

What I am questioning is Araujo's motives in all of this. He was removed by the team. He claims that they did this unfairly. We only have his word that they did it unfairly. He isn't trying to get control of the name back. He's trying to force his way back into the team. He's trying to use the threat of legal action to make the team drop Atkinson and reinstate him. And that's why the FIA won't act. If they suspend the team's licence, they won't be able to compete until they file for a new licence, which then has to go through the accreditation procedure. They would likely lose their manufacturer status in the process, and they may not be able to compete in Wales given the time the procedure will take. However, if that were to happen, then you can bet that Araujo will tell the team that if they reinstate him, they will be entitled to use the name, their licence will be returned, and they will be able to continue rallying with a minimum of fuss.

Originally Posted by JAM

What's you doubt abou it? Why do you insist that is only a word of Armindo? Obviously this is not a question of word, is a question of legal property of something.

Wich is the part that you didn't understood?

We only have Araujo's claim that he was unfairly dismissed from the team. That dismissal is what led to him challenging the team's right to use the name. If he was not dismissed, he would not be challenging it. But we have no evidence that Araujo was unfairly dismissed in the first place, which is why I am questioning his motives in challenging the use of the name. It's not like Araujo is moving to another team and is asking Motorsport Italia to stop using the Mini Portugal name because he is no longer associated with them. He is trying to get back into the team and is using the name as leverage to do it.

I find it amazing how you constantly keep using the words "claim", "his word"; "his motives"; etc.

I think it is clear for all to see that AA was f@cked with all the letters in this case and he was even kind enough to share some of the HARD-EVIDENCE to the worldwide audience - (the "Your SICK email", for ex.).

AA can have a lot of faults but being stupid is surely not one of them. There would be no legal action issued if he wasn´t pretty assured of his case.

Moreover, it's astonishing your CLAIM the he wants to go back to the Motorsport Italia team. I can only laugh at that. I'm very sure he would sooner take up fishing for the rest of his life before setting foot in any car remotely linked to those people.

This is not only a question of naming rights and licenses et all. It's a question of principle, a question of deceiving, a question of manipulation and a question of truthfulness.

The reason why MSI existis his because of Armindo and his sponsors. The reason why Paulo Nobre signed for MSI and brought his money along was because of the relationship he forged with Armindo last year. Paulo himself stated that on the Palmeirinha Rally Facebook page.

As I said before this is not like being fired from Citroen or Ford.

Originally Posted by Prisoner Monkeys

I don't doubt that the team name was registered and owned by Araujo.

What I am questioning is Araujo's motives in all of this. He was removed by the team. He claims that they did this unfairly. We only have his word that they did it unfairly. He isn't trying to get control of the name back. He's trying to force his way back into the team. He's trying to use the threat of legal action to make the team drop Atkinson and reinstate him. And that's why the FIA won't act. If they suspend the team's licence, they won't be able to compete until they file for a new licence, which then has to go through the accreditation procedure. They would likely lose their manufacturer status in the process, and they may not be able to compete in Wales given the time the procedure will take. However, if that were to happen, then you can bet that Araujo will tell the team that if they reinstate him, they will be entitled to use the name, their licence will be returned, and they will be able to continue rallying with a minimum of fuss.


We only have Araujo's claim that he was unfairly dismissed from the team. That dismissal is what led to him challenging the team's right to use the name. If he was not dismissed, he would not be challenging it. But we have no evidence that Araujo was unfairly dismissed in the first place, which is why I am questioning his motives in challenging the use of the name. It's not like Araujo is moving to another team and is asking Motorsport Italia to stop using the Mini Portugal name because he is no longer associated with them. He is trying to get back into the team and is using the name as leverage to do it.

Originally Posted by FAlonso

It's a question of principle, a question of deceiving, a question of manipulation and a question of truthfulness.

Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good, but I have found that people have a remarkable tendency to remember themselves as the victims.

If Motorsport Italia manipulated and decieved Araujo, then I find it equally plausible that Araujo is manipulated and deceiving the public.

i think Attko has proved to the rally fraternity that after all it was not a crap MINI but a slow driver{Araujo} was driving the car.

Originally Posted by Red bull

i think Attko has proved to the rally fraternity that after all it was not a crap MINI but a slow driver{Araujo} was driving the car.

isn't atko driving 01B? a car they never let araujo drive....
its lots of things to put the finger on in this story, but araujo has nothing to lose anymore. i understand his move, MSI hasen't done this in a nice way.