BTCC Donington Park - Rounds 4, 5 and 6

**BDunnell** · 15th Apr 12, 17:53

And come on Steve Rider, don't go calling it 'fantastic spectacle'. You can do better than that.

**christophulus** · 15th Apr 12, 18:04

Originally Posted by BDunnell

And come on Steve Rider, don't go calling it 'fantastic spectacle'. You can do better than that.

ITV seem to think fans are only interested if it's like a destruction derby. Agree that Plato should have a heavy penalty.

**BDunnell** · 15th Apr 12, 18:08

Originally Posted by christophulus

ITV seem to think fans are only interested if it's like a destruction derby.

It is a problem. I have a high regard for Tim Harvey, but there are only so many times I can take being told that this is 'good, close racing' or 'that was a classic Matt Neal manoeuvre' when the racing or the manoeuvre in question shouldn't be deemed appropriate.

**Tixy54** · 15th Apr 12, 18:41

Originally Posted by BDunnell

No way in the world Plato should go unpenalised for that last corner push on Shedden. That's not on. I don't think a reversal of positions would be sufficient; an exclusion would seem more appropriate for what was a deliberate piece of contact. Surely an example should be set this time? Shedden's anger is totally justified.

Other than that, a brilliant win by Jackson, a fantastic race by Gilham, and further indication that the BMWs can't hack it over a race distance.

I have to agree, whoever you support in this race series,that was out & out cheating, Mr Plato has got away with it for far too long. There aren't many of the "top" drivers that haven't been Plato'd at some time or other, if the clerk of the course won't do anything I think that all of these drivers should get together and make a protest, even to the point of a boycott if necessary. No driver is bigger than the rule book and I'm afraid that Mr Plato has got away with it just too often. Some of his race tactics leave a very sour taste in the mouth. As I have said before in these forums, I'll take nothing away from the fact that he is a very talented driver, however, this also means that he doesn't have to resort to these kind of "blatant cheating" tactics. If you can't win anything fairly then don't enter, no-one has to resort to tactics which could end up with one of your fellow competitors, or, worse still, cheering fans or marshalls getting seriously injured.

Rant over, who agrees? Stand up and be counted - even supporters of Mr Plato, I'd love to hear your comments.

**BDunnell** · 15th Apr 12, 18:46

Originally Posted by Tixy54

I have to agree, whoever you support in this race series,that was out & out cheating, Mr Plato has got away with it for far too long. There aren't many of the "top" drivers that haven't been Plato'd at some time or other, if the clerk of the course won't do anything I think that all of these drivers should get together and make a protest, even to the point of a boycott if necessary. No driver is bigger than the rule book and I'm afraid that Mr Plato has got away with it just too often. Some of his race tactics leave a very sour taste in the mouth. As I have said before in these forums, I'll take nothing away from the fact that he is a very talented driver, however, this also means that he doesn't have to resort to these kind of "blatant cheating" tactics. If you can't win anything fairly then don't enter, no-one has to resort to tactics which could end up with one of your fellow competitors, or, worse still, cheering fans or marshalls getting seriously injured.

Rant over, who agrees? Stand up and be counted - even supporters of Mr Plato, I'd love to hear your comments.

Well, it wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen in the BTCC by a long shot, but, as I said earlier, I think an example needs to be set at some point. To me, it was just a shame a position had to be decided in such a way at the very end of what had been a clean race between the three front-runners. I don't care who is involved, not supporting any one driver over any other — all I want to see is good racing in the proper sense. And there was plenty of that today, too, not least from Plato in coming through in that third race.

**BDunnell** · 15th Apr 12, 21:07

Post-race, Plato was demoted to third for his move on Shedden: then Jackson was excluded for a turbo boost infringement. So, Shedden wins from Plato and, in third, Gilham. Good reward for Gilham, I feel, after a fine and clean drive.

BTCC :: Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship

**Allyc85** · 15th Apr 12, 21:34

Seems like justice has been done, im glad the stewards have done something about it

**m.lowe** · 15th Apr 12, 21:51

new track put in for next round
Barford Camp

**rwdvectra** · 15th Apr 12, 22:39

**Tixy54** · 16th Apr 12, 08:33

I got the news on the stewards decisions last night, from Gordon, I have nothing more to say on the matter.

**HondaRacingFan** · 17th Apr 12, 01:32

Plato once again being the ass of the weekend.

1. Tried to squeeze out collard but failed.
2. Then failed to to pass Shedden cleanly though the course of Race 3, so resorted to pushing him off.

Im not jking Plato's driving standards seems to get worse every year. i don't mind the odd nudge and rub but pushing a driver half way down a straight at high speed was out of order and the 2second penalty wasn't good enough. they should of excluded him.

the thing i don't get is. they can fine collard for doing celebratory do-nuts but not fine Plato for dangerous driving. i don't get it.

**HondaRacingFan** · 17th Apr 12, 01:37

Correct me if im wrong but thats Chris James car, not Newshams and that was what James did himself. nothing to do with Plato. but still funny as hell.

**wedge** · 17th Apr 12, 11:46

Plato is an utter twunt.

This time last year he was complaining about driving standards.

Is it any wonder BTCC has it haters, not just viewers but marshals as well.

I was never a fan of the Plato v Neal/TD rivalry. It's been inauthentic, childish and sunk to another low.

OK the standards in NASCAR aren't great either but at least they know don't want a rivalry to get out of hand. As BDunnel pointed out earlier, an example needs to be set.

**BDunnell** · 17th Apr 12, 13:06

Originally Posted by wedge

Plato is an utter twunt.

This time last year he was complaining about driving standards.

Is it any wonder BTCC has it haters, not just viewers but marshals as well.

I was never a fan of the Plato v Neal/TD rivalry. It's been inauthentic, childish and sunk to another low.

OK the standards in NASCAR aren't great either but at least they know don't want a rivalry to get out of hand. As BDunnel pointed out earlier, an example needs to be set.

My particular problem with this incident was that you could see it coming a mile off. You just knew there was going to be contact at the last corner, if not before. That's not what I want to see in motor racing I watch.

**MattyB** · 17th Apr 12, 19:43

Originally Posted by Tixy54

I have to agree, whoever you support in this race series,that was out & out cheating, Mr Plato has got away with it for far too long. There aren't many of the "top" drivers that haven't been Plato'd at some time or other, if the clerk of the course won't do anything I think that all of these drivers should get together and make a protest, even to the point of a boycott if necessary. No driver is bigger than the rule book and I'm afraid that Mr Plato has got away with it just too often. Some of his race tactics leave a very sour taste in the mouth. As I have said before in these forums, I'll take nothing away from the fact that he is a very talented driver, however, this also means that he doesn't have to resort to these kind of "blatant cheating" tactics. If you can't win anything fairly then don't enter, no-one has to resort to tactics which could end up with one of your fellow competitors, or, worse still, cheering fans or marshalls getting seriously injured.

Rant over, who agrees? Stand up and be counted - even supporters of Mr Plato, I'd love to hear your comments.

I wholeheartedly agree - Plato is too arrogant for his own good - and too dangerous for his fellow drivers. His style should be more in-tune (no pun intended) with stock-car racing, where men are men and don't hide behind a facade of smugness. It needs a brave driver to stand up to Plato and give him the ear-bending/mouthful he so deserves. He should have a) been disqualified for his 3rd race antics, or b) given a 10 second penalty, as he was shown to have pushed Shedden down the straight well before the corner. It would have been interesting to see his reaction if he had rolled Shedden.........or cause serious injury or worse (God forbid). Maybe he'd like to see a replay of Charlie Cox at Thruxton doing his somersaults.......?

It really is time to see some authority be exerted over the rule book and bring the racing back to the non-contact sport that made it so popular with the public, before the BTCC degenerates any further into a lost cause.

**BDunnell** · 18th Apr 12, 00:08

Originally Posted by MattyB

I wholeheartedly agree - Plato is too arrogant for his own good - and too dangerous for his fellow drivers. His style should be more in-tune (no pun intended) with stock-car racing, where men are men and don't hide behind a facade of smugness. It needs a brave driver to stand up to Plato and give him the ear-bending/mouthful he so deserves. He should have a) been disqualified for his 3rd race antics, or b) given a 10 second penalty, as he was shown to have pushed Shedden down the straight well before the corner. It would have been interesting to see his reaction if he had rolled Shedden.........or cause serious injury or worse (God forbid). Maybe he'd like to see a replay of Charlie Cox at Thruxton doing his somersaults.......?

It really is time to see some authority be exerted over the rule book and bring the racing back to the non-contact sport that made it so popular with the public, before the BTCC degenerates any further into a lost cause.

I have absolutely no beef at all with the individuals concerned. It's the general attitude that worries me. Jeff Allam was employed by Alan Gow as a driving standards advisor last year. By the tone of some comments of his quoted in an article, he was serious about the role. Yet what good has it done? Can anyone honestly say that it had an effect? If it did, goodness knows how bad things would have become otherwise.

**HondaRacingFan** · 21st Apr 12, 15:29

Originally Posted by BDunnell

I have absolutely no beef at all with the individuals concerned. It's the general attitude that worries me. Jeff Allam was employed by Alan Gow as a driving standards advisor last year. By the tone of some comments of his quoted in an article, he was serious about the role. Yet what good has it done? Can anyone honestly say that it had an effect? If it did, goodness knows how bad things would have become otherwise.

I don't think it's made any change if anything made things far worse.