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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    No he didn't have to leave space as he was ahead and owned the corner in both incidents, so no, not inconsistent.

    Mercedes have lodged two appeals and I think they have a case especially around the unlapping procedure.
    The other problem of the decision is that they effectively unfairly reordered the positions that those cars that overtook as instructed, at the finish of the race. As they would now end up behind the tail end of the grid when they cross the finish line and losing effectively up to three positions. Which would put the racing director in a situation where he would need to determine the order of the finish not based on how the cars cross the finish line which is the way the regulations say classification for points allocation is determined. But by amending the classification based on his orders.

    So the likes of Norris, Alonso, Leclerc, Ocon and Vettel may lose out because they would cross the finish line behind those cars behind Verstappen who they were ahead of. If the rules were applied correctly.

    Mind you, all drivers behind the lead car are classified in the position that they cross the finish line after the winning car has taken the chequered flag. Which those cars that were instructed to overtake would only do before those cars behind Verstappen [before he overtook Hamilton] would have crossed the finish line. Of course, that would be the case if these cars has not been lapped by these five cars [ Norris, Alonso, Leclerc, Ocon and Vettel ]

    Therefore the actual classification ought to be

    Verstappen
    Hamilton
    Ricciardo
    Stroll
    Schumacher
    then the five cars that were instructed to overtake.

    There is more to come.
    Last edited by Nitrodaze; 12th December 2021 at 15:25.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    No he didn't have to leave space as he was ahead and owned the corner in both incidents, so no, not inconsistent.
    then why do you think verstappen had to leave space here? he was on the inside, ahead and within track limits.

    i would like to have the rule of leaving space applied and enforced, because it would make overtaking a lot easier. but sadly the fia thinks differently, and has done so for a long time.

  3. #123
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    Well , I hated that .
    That wasn't fair .

    There was a moment when I thought they had a reasonable compromise remedy to the situation , which was to leave the back markers where they were , but then they changed their minds .
    Even calling a red flag with 3 laps to go could have worked as putting them together might have had them on equal tires for two laps .

    But , at that point Merc would have been keeping Lewis out simply because under normally followed procedures the race would have finished under the safety car at that point .

    They "went racing" , but they did it in a way that had never been done before .

    They did it a way that made it a no contest race . Lewis had no chance .

  4. #124
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    I feel a bit sorry for Lewis as he did everything right today. His team though didn't.
    Either driver would have been a worthy champion this year.

    The restart would always favour one of the championship contenders no matter how it is decided. Maybe it would have been better to red flag the race, let everyone change their tyres and then have them battle it out over five laps after a standing start.
    Oct. 31, 1999 - one of the blackest days in motorsports.

  5. Likes: WUff1 (12th December 2021)
  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    The other problem of the decision is that they effectively unfairly reordered the positions that those cars that overtook as instructed, at the finish of the race. As they would now end up behind the tail end of the grid when they cross the finish line and losing effectively up to four positions. Which would put the racing director in a situation where he would need to determine the order of the finish not based on how the cars cross the finish line which is the way the regulations say classification for points allocation is determined. But by amending the classification based on his orders.

    So the likes of Norris, Alonso, Leclerc, Ocon and Vettel would lose out because they would cross the finish line behind those cars behind Verstappen who they were ahead of. If the rules were applied correctly.

    There is more to come.
    that is always the case, lapped cars can finish earlier than the ones in front of them. in the standings, nothing has changed, they just are classified as in the same lap, while the ones who didn't get to overtake are classiefied as lapped.

    the only thing this could have changed is if there were direct fights between someone who was allowed to unlap and someone who wasn't. but i don't think that was the case here.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by denkimi View Post
    then why do you think verstappen had to leave space here? he was on the inside, ahead and within track limits.

    i would like to have the rule of leaving space applied and enforced, because it would make overtaking a lot easier. but sadly the fia thinks differently, and has done so for a long time.
    This is going around in circles, if you don't understand I am unsure why you watch the sport. The answer is because you can't plough someone off the track to gain position.

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    I feel a bit sorry for Lewis as he did everything right today. His team though didn't.
    Either driver would have been a worthy champion this year.

    The restart would always favour one of the championship contenders no matter how it is decided. Maybe it would have been better to red flag the race, let everyone change their tyres and then have them battle it out over five laps after a standing start.

    Agreed 100%, that would have been infinitely fairer.

  9. #128
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    Toto Wolff refusing interviews after Max Verstappen's final-lap win over Lewis Hamilton
    Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff declined interviews after witnessing Max Hamilton edge out Lewis Hamilton to win the Formula 1 championship under controversial circumstances

    By Freddie Keighley
    Digital Sports Reporter
    15:42, 12 Dec 2021

    A despairing Toto Wolff was left with his head in his hands after Max Verstappen snatched the Formula 1 championship from Lewis Hamilton 's grasp on the final lap of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

    The Mercedes team principal refused to speak to the press in the immediate aftermath of the race as his team combed over the sport's rules and lodged a formal protest following late controversy at Yas Marina.

    Verstappen, 24, won his maiden title under the most dramatic circumstances, capitalising on a late safety car to pass his rival on the final lap.
    Hamilton, 36, had an 11-second lead and appeared to be cruising to a record-breaking eighth championship prior to Nicholas Latifi's serious crash with five laps remaining.

    Verstappen used the yellow flag to change onto a fresh set of soft tyres and overtook the Brit once the safety car withdrew to send the Red Bull team and principal Christian Horner into frenzy.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formu...ilton-25678466


    Mercedes lodge protest over controversial Verstappen victory
    Ewan Gale
    Sunday 12 December 2021 15:44 - Updated: 15:58

    Mercedes has lodged a protest with the FIA over the race classification and a breach of the sporting regulations after a controversial end to the 2021 F1 world championship.

    Max Verstappen overtook Lewis Hamilton on the final lap of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix after confusion under safety car conditions, triggered by a Nicholas Latifi crash, ahead of the last lap.

    https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/73...appen-victory/


    Mercedes launch two official protests following Max Verstappen title win
    DANIEL BROWN

    One of the protests is against Max Verstappen
    Mercedes have launched two protests after Max Verstappen won the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix and the Drivers' Championship in controversial fashion, as per Sky Sports.

    https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/mercedes...tle-win-305903


    Mercedes protests Abu Dhabi result and Verstappen’s driving
    By Scott Mitchell

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/merce...ppens-driving/


    Mercedes lodge protests against Verstappen and Red Bull
    Mercedes and Red Bull are off to the stewards, after the team lodged two separate protests against Max Verstappen.

    Author Thomas Maher

    https://racingnews365.com/mercedes-l...n-and-red-bull


    IGNORED
    Race director Michael Masi’s blunt response to Toto Wolff’s complaints about dramatic conclusion to Abu Dhabi Grand Prix which saw Max Verstappen overtake Lewis Hamilton to win Formula 1 World Drivers’ Championship

    Michael Benson
    12th December 2021, 3:47 pm
    Updated: 12th December 2021, 3:47 pm

    Masi’s decision set up the dramatic final lap showdown and led to Verstappen’s victory.

    As Red Bull celebrated their man’s victory, Mercedes boss Wolff complained over the radio: “You need to reinstate the lap before, that’s not right.”

    Masi bluntly told him in response: “Toto, it’s called a motor race. We went car racing.”

    https://talksport.com/sport/motorsport/1001166/


    Christian Horner thanks ‘racing gods’ for Max Verstappen’s F1 title win after Abu Dhabi drama
    Max Verstappen won the most dramatic of races after the intervention of the safety car

    Sports Staff

    Red Bull team principal Christian Horner thanked the racing gods after Max Verstappen fought back to win a dramatic Abu Dhabi Grand Prix from Lewis Hamilton on the final lap and clinch his first world championship.

    Nicholas Latifi’s crash with five laps to go brought out the safety car, which meant Verstappen could not only close the 12-second gap to race leader Hamilton but also take the opportunity to change to fresh tyres for the finale.

    Race director Michael Masi then allowed some of the lapped cars that were between Verstappen and Hamilton to overtake the safety car, much to the fury of Mercedes boss Toto Wolff, meaning the Red Bull was right behind the Mercedes when the race restarted with one lap to go.

    From there, Verstappen was able to quickly overtake Hamilton and hold on to win the race, and the title.

    “It was going to need something from the racing gods,” said Horner. “The stewards, we felt hard done by [after first lap incident] but they did a great to get the race going again. Credit to Lewis, he’s been phenomenal and that makes the victory even more more valid.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-b1974562.html


    Max Verstappen 'wants to stay with Red Bull for life' following F1 title win
    DANIEL BROWN

    The Dutchman was understandably ecstatic with his triumph, claiming that he 'loves' his team and that he wants to remain with them for the rest of his career.

    "I'm so happy. Our goal was to win this championship when we came together and we have done that," said Verstappen.

    "My team know I love them. I hope we can do this for 10, 15 years together.

    "I don't want to change ever. I want to stay with them for the rest of my life, if they will have me.

    https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/max-vers...tle-win-305896

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Even calling a red flag with 3 laps to go could have worked as putting them together might have had them on equal tires for two laps .
    this.

    that was the only thing they could have done that would have been reasonably fair. Put the whole grid on softs and let them race for 3 laps.

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm99 View Post
    I feel a bit sorry for Lewis as he did everything right today. His team though didn't.
    Either driver would have been a worthy champion this year.

    The restart would always favour one of the championship contenders no matter how it is decided. Maybe it would have been better to red flag the race, let everyone change their tyres and then have them battle it out over five laps after a standing start.
    Red flag would have been fair or leave the unlapped cars between them. What they did was embarrassing for the sport. As I said, I don't think Masi's position is tenable anymore. This was a colossal fuck up.

  12. Likes: truefan72 (12th December 2021)

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