Page 108 of 336 FirstFirst ... 85898106107108109110118158208 ... LastLast
Results 1,071 to 1,080 of 3353
  1. #1071
    Senior Member AnttiL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    9,625
    Like
    8,775
    Liked 10,522 Times in 4,616 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Power View Post
    There’s even a bigger issue with EVs: they can reduce transportation sector emissions but eventually they won’t help to reduce global emissions, as electricity production will still be mainly based on fossil fuels - despite all the investment in renewable sources. That’s what politics and green lobbyists have been hidden: to put more EVs on the road will mean burning more coal and gas!.
    I don't understand this. Doesn't any bit of using renewables for EV energy reduce burning of coal/gas? Even if it's just 10%, it's still 10% less.

    Also, EV's are more power efficient, so driving 100 km on EV takes less energy than 100 km on a petrol car.

  2. Likes: Mirek (29th November 2017)
  3. #1072
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Prague / Eastern Bohemia
    Posts
    22,491
    Like
    7,821
    Liked 11,137 Times in 4,419 Posts
    In terms of emissions the EV are definitely better than any combustion cars. Creating the pollution only in several easy to control sources (power plant) and some renewable ones is way better than delivering it directly in the city streets by devices (cars) with questionable technical state of their catalysts/particle filters/AD blue injectors which moreover most of the time spend standing in traffic jams or on the traffic lights. Moreover large part of such drives is made with cold engines, i.e. absolutely not in ideal conditions (especially diesel cars in the cities).

    The problem is the feasibility of the electrification. It works best with electric trains, trams or trolleybuses but using trolleys is impossible for common traffic where everyone goes where he wants, when he wants and how he wants.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  4. Likes: AnttiL (29th November 2017)
  5. #1073
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    3,004
    Like
    3,729
    Liked 2,937 Times in 1,338 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnttiL View Post
    I don't understand this. Doesn't any bit of using renewables for EV energy reduce burning of coal/gas? Even if it's just 10%, it's still 10% less.
    We’re supposed to believe in it, but if you check the main energy agencies info you’ll notice that in the last decades only in Europe it was possible to reduce fossil fuels electricity production share. In the US, with the fracking boom, natural gas has risen as main source, alongside coal and China, despite the huge investments on hydro, still mainly depends on coal. In the rest of the world situation is the same: the growing electricity demand has been answered through burning fossil fuels, not by the use of cleaner energies. To get lots of cheap and clean electricity, the only viable alternative would be getting back to nuclear energy (still a low emissions source), but this one has been also condemned by public opinion.

    Take a look: http://stateofinnovation.com/coal-an...f-the-dinosaur



    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    In terms of emissions the EV are definitely better than any combustion cars. Creating the pollution only in several easy to control sources (power plant) and some renewable ones is way better than delivering it directly in the city streets by devices (cars) with questionable technical state of their catalysts/particle filters/AD blue injectors which moreover most of the time spend standing in traffic jams or on the traffic lights. Moreover large part of such drives is made with cold engines, i.e. absolutely not in ideal conditions (especially diesel cars in the cities). The problem is the feasibility of the electrification. It works best with electric trains, trams or trolleybuses but using trolleys is impossible for common traffic where everyone goes where he wants, when he wants and how he wants.
    You're missing the point. For sure EVs will be less polluting, but because electricity production is still, and will be for a long time, based in coal and natural gas (despite the propaganda about renewable sources), Co2 emissions saved by taking ICE veichules from the road wouldn't compensate the global Co2 emissions generated by increasing electricity production. It's not even the grid problems that makes one believe EVs aren’t the wonderful solution sold to everyone; it’s the overall concept of not achieving lower global Co2 emissions, as desired.

    Last edited by Rally Power; 29th November 2017 at 15:05.
    Rally addict since 1982

  6. Likes: sonnybobiche (29th November 2017)
  7. #1074
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Prague / Eastern Bohemia
    Posts
    22,491
    Like
    7,821
    Liked 11,137 Times in 4,419 Posts
    You operate with the premise that burning coal or natural gas produces same emissions as burning diesel or petrol in the vehicle engines. That's not true. Especially natural gas is very good source in terms of CO2 emissions (and near perfect source in terms of other unwanted emissions like NOx, SOx or solid particles which are other very problematic substances produced by vehicles). Even black coal is better in terms of CO2 emissions per energy unit than petrol or diesel.

    In fact CNG in terms of emissions is very clean source of energy. The emissions of CO2 are roughly 50% per same energy, emissions of SOx near non existent, emissions of solid particles non existent at all, emissions of NOx are roughly 20-30%.

    Another good thing about CNG is that it can be used by vehicles directly without any major issues.

    Another point which You fail to see is that especially in the city traffic the combustion engines often produce completely useless energy. They basically only warm up their surroundings while the vehicle stands still. This is totally wasted energy with only negative impacts to the environment.
    Last edited by Mirek; 29th November 2017 at 16:02.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  8. Likes: AnttiL (29th November 2017),cali (29th November 2017)
  9. #1075
    Senior Member Rally Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    3,004
    Like
    3,729
    Liked 2,937 Times in 1,338 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    You operate with the premise that burning coal or natural gas produces same emissions as burning diesel or petrol in the vehicle engines. That's not true.
    Jesus, sometimes you remind me my ex wife: always eager to refute my views…

    Anyway, what I’ve mentioned isn’t a personal view at all: it’s the view of many unhappy (and expert) voices in the industry, trying to fight ‘EVs zero emissions’ lie. https://www.theguardian.com/environm...climate-change

    Honestly, I believe those voices are right and that while we won’t manage to fairly decrease coal and natural gas share in global electricity production, we shouldn’t keep boosting EVs in such a bold way. Probably, the smarter thing would be continuing to encourage ICE efficiency (including the use of alternative fuels) and the development of mild hybrids. But then, you'll know better!
    Rally addict since 1982

  10. Likes: sonnybobiche (29th November 2017)
  11. #1076
    Senior Member Mirek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Prague / Eastern Bohemia
    Posts
    22,491
    Like
    7,821
    Liked 11,137 Times in 4,419 Posts
    Sorry but nobody here claimed that EV cars bring zero emissions.

    Do EV bring less total emissions than petrol and diesel cars? Yes, they do.

    Does CNG produce less emissions than diesel or petrol. Yes, it does.

    Is it an improvement? Yes, it is.

    Is it better to implement improvements right now or to wait for the ultimate solution which may come in decades, in centuries or maybe never?


    The issues with large-scale using of EV is technical, not ecological.
    Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump

  12. Likes: AnttiL (29th November 2017),pantealex (30th November 2017)
  13. #1077
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Lithuania
    Posts
    386
    Like
    803
    Liked 248 Times in 125 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Sir, have You ever watched elecric race live? I am sorry but without sound IT IS boring as hell. Moreover in rallying sound is part of the safety package. It warns spectators that something is coming. No such issue on closed circuits.
    No I haven't. Now going to youtube to listen some Audi 5cyl, Subaru and Lancer Evo A group, or maybe some Porsche engines music.

  14. #1078
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,341
    Like
    5,431
    Liked 833 Times in 405 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirek View Post
    Sir, have You ever watched elecric race live? I am sorry but without sound IT IS boring as hell. Moreover in rallying sound is part of the safety package. It warns spectators that something is coming. No such issue on closed circuits.
    Not at all. I attended all of the Buenos Aires Formula E races and I can say for a fact that the whoosh the electric motors make is quite fascinating. Obviously there's nothing like the meaty roar of a rally car and in the last FE race the sounds were muted by some dumbass DJ idea but electric racing sounds aren't dull at all.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  15. #1079
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    1,858
    Like
    140
    Liked 1,090 Times in 488 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by steve.mandzij View Post
    Not at all. I attended all of the Buenos Aires Formula E races and I can say for a fact that the whoosh the electric motors make is quite fascinating. Obviously there's nothing like the meaty roar of a rally car and in the last FE race the sounds were muted by some dumbass DJ idea but electric racing sounds aren't dull at all.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5844VCjRpv0

    Would you really prefer THAT?
    Never stop dreaming because one day it might happen.

  16. #1080
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,341
    Like
    5,431
    Liked 833 Times in 405 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5844VCjRpv0

    Would you really prefer THAT?
    Well, that was pretty boring, but FE cars sound much better, and I never said I preferred that.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •