Group A cars

[Mirek]

I thought it was mainly Peugeot asking for WRC regulation but also Ford as Jan wrote. The gr.A became too expensive for manufacturers and what is also important very inflexible. You can do quickly some modifications on WRC car but the same process takes many months if not years when You need to go through stock production. My job is stupid interior controls but even with something like airco controls You need around two or three years to get a new product into production. The process is hugely complex and slow and it becomes even more slow and complex when You need to change something what already is in production.

This came only with time and that's why it's an issue which didn't exist in such a scale in the past. The development of production methods towards maximum efficiency escalated hugely in 1990' with the advance in computers and robotics.

I also think that the main problem for new manufacturers was not the scale of required production (although it definitely was a big problem as it was extremely expensive) but the know-how they simply didn't have. For making a WRC they could use specialized companies for development and even low-scale production of parts while for stock production it's something completely different. For example at the start of WRC program Škoda paid Prodrive to give them something to start with as in five years they jumped from super simple F2 Favorit with carburettor engine to full-active WRC.

[janvanvurpa]

I thought it was mainly Peugeot asking for WRC regulation but also Ford as Jan wrote. The gr.A became too expensive for manufacturers and what is also important very inflexible. You can do quickly some modifications on WRC car but the same process takes many months if not years when You need to go through stock production. My job is stupid interior controls but even with something like airco controls You need around two or three years to get a new product into production. The process is hugely complex and slow and it becomes even more slow and complex when You need to change something what already is in production.

This came only with time and that's why it's an issue which didn't exist in such a scale in the past. The development of production methods towards maximum efficiency escalated hugely in 1990' with the advance in computers and robotics.

I also think that the main problem for new manufacturers was not the scale of required production (although it definitely was a big problem as it was extremely expensive) but the know-how they simply didn't have. For making a WRC they could use specialized companies for development and even low-scale production of parts while for stock production it's something completely different. For example at the start of WRC program Škoda paid Prodrive to give them something to start with as in five years they jumped from super simple F2 Favorit with carburettor engine to full-active WRC.

Yeah, good points...For example for was using YBB/YBG Cossie which the block began life as ordinary old T88 2,0 Pinto...Old 2wd car began life with very very short rods--relative to stroke..The rods were 128.52mm center to ceter..That was +2mm from the old Pinto. Piston was down 2mm from Pinto's 41,6mm..OK some improvement...

And POFF! they were locked in from the 3 door until they homologated the "World Rally Car" on 1 Jan 1997. And what do you see on 1 Jan 97? Something I had been doing forever (at least since 1987) on Fords and Opel's old CIH Manta and Ascona motors and now hundreds of sets for Volvos: LONGER RODs..
Ford had I think it was +10mm on rods so the piston was, from center of pin to top barely 30mm---and since I do this alll the time
And if fact just did some 139mm rods for an Escort MkII in Sweden AND! a Saab 99 in the same team (stock was 134mm he got 144mm so same as we talking above)---they save at least 300-330 grams of piston weight...and I am telling you to get rid of reciprocation weight of piston is all round a nice thing....
In addition there is less angle on the rod and that equals more power into the crank, and less side thrust pushing the pisston into the wall of the cylinder..

10 years they were locked in...

I undersatnd the "outsourcing" of the development work, too. Mainline production is mainline..

And yeah opened up development for --at the beginnink--lots of OEMs...

But by NOT limiting how crazy the could go it became these space-ships and unlimited in a way---and that drove OFF nearly everybody but 1-2 manufacturers.

Like everything in life finding the balance between freedom and rules is the hard thing...

I also find the requirement that a brake bell MUST have some MFG PN stamped or etched in or you are thrown out a serious outrage.. I make those, I know what material and machine time costs....make it required that you buy from Malcolm and it costs 3 times as much--and he certainly can make them more rationally than I can in series of 20...Why 3 times more valuta?

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

For example at the start of WRC program Škoda paid Prodrive to give them something to start with as in five years they jumped from super simple F2 Favorit with carburettor engine to full-active WRC.

I never know that..(I'm only know Proton Putra WRC which was Impreza with Mirage Asti face)