Top 10 Driver Rankings of past seasons

[steveaki13]

Sorry Jens.

Didnt mean to upset you. I guess its right that Herbert was lucky with his wins. I think its a British thing. It has been labelled as unlucky and it sticks.

For me though I still think he did a good job in 1995 and I stand by ranking him 3rd.

[rjbetty]

I have a lot to say about 2004/2005 too, maybe a bit for 2006, but then after that not so much as I left F1 for a few years, and am not really into it as crazily as I was before.

Until then, I will respond/add to some thoughts here, as they were very interesting to read. Thanks guys.

2003
I didn't really take notice of Button during 2003, he seemed unnoticably getting 1-2 pts per race here and there. It was only retrospectively and in 2004 when I took a much more serious notice of Button's talent as a front-running GP driver in terms of ability.

I think Button did really well in 2003. I actually thought he'd not do better than Panis in his first season. I now believe that Villeneuve was actually quite poor over 2001-2002 and that is why Panis pretty much matched him, whereas at the time I thought Panis was really that good (equal to Frentzen/Irvine or even better).

Jenson may not have looked that great getting mainly 7ths and 8ths, but I very much remember a few times he started last, through no fault of his own iirc. And he was on much inferior Bridgestone tyres. And by now, reliability was noticeably improved and starting to get to the current levels, so it wasn't like a ton of cars dropped out ahead. I think against the hordes of Michelin cars, and also that he wasn't exactly devoid of problems as Jacques might have you believe, he did a very good job.

I liked da Matta. I remember how wowed I was on his first Friday qualifying lap in Australia. Being the last one out iirc, I remember when his first sector time flashed up, he was 3rd! He finished his lap 11th iirc, but I was happy.

At the time though I didn't really understand how much of a huge difference it made to be the last car out as opposed to thr first car, with the difference being around 0.7sec to even maybe 1.5sec!

In my big rush, how could I forget Verstappen being apparently on target to win the Brazilian GP before sliding off on that river?! We will never know if Fisi would have overtaken him. Maybe it would be Verstappen who would have had his first win messed up. I don't really understand why it had such an effect on me for Fisi's to be ruined, but it did.

The hype about Pizzonia seemed to be from pre-2001. I agree that he was a real disappointment in F3000, finishing only 8th in 2002... Ricardo Sperafico outscored him both years.

I only first knew about Pizzonia early in 2000 when he was in British F3. One of the reasons he was hyped is because at Brands Hatch he won by a relatively ridiculous amount, creaming everyone including Tomas Scheckter, Takuma Sato, Narain Karthikeyan, Nicolas Kiesa, Gianmaria Bruni, Ben Collins (the Stig), Andy Priaulx, Matt Davies (remember him?), Marcos Ambrose and Gary Paffett amongst others!

By the end of 2004 I had lost belief in Antonio and like you Jens was dismayed at the Williams shootout which seemed to go on for months - just choose Heidfeld already! I remember either/both Sam Michael and Frank Williams explaining that their comprehensive appraisal was lasting so long as they believed Antonio really was "that good". (Shake mah head...)

I was pleased with da Matta in 2003, for a first season. I didn't think he was a good as Montoya but could still be a top driver in time. Such a shame he had a poor attitude and motivation after that, apparently because in a chat with M.Schumacher, da Matta explained his entry and exit to corners, and Michael was like "what about mid-corner?" and da Matta didn't quite understand mid-corner (tbh I don't quite, either!) and that messed with his head apparently. Or maybe it was just the uncompetitive 2004 machine that put him off.


As for 1995, yeah the gaps really were bigger than 1994 sadly with the new aerodynamic regulations. Inoue was 2.4sec down on Morbidelli. Bouillon was 1.6sec off Frentzen, Blundell 0.9sec off Hakkinen(!) and Katayama about 0.7ec off Salo, with Herbert 1.3/4sec off Schumacher too... I think Wendlinger was very hard done by indeed tbh, he came out of a coma! It wouldn't have been too dissimilar to what Michael Schumacher is going through right now, though clearly nowhere near as bad for Karl. It wasn't fair to expect miracles from Wendlinger straight-away.

Brundle's 1995 really impressed me when I understood it, especially Magny-Cours and Spa. He could have bagged 2nd in Australia too. I like most others feel it a total injustice he couldn't do the full season.

[journeyman racer]

I remember Brazil 1999 was one of the catalysts for me to start thinking Frentzen and R.Schumacher were lucky that year. Reliability was very important in 1999 and for some reason these guys had it, while several other drivers didn't and lost lots of points in the process.

HHF had 2nd place in the bag very late in Canada, before his brakes failed, causing him to crash. He was in control at the Nurburgring, and would've won, before hydraulics or something like that stopped the car. Had he won, he would've been within a couple of points from the title lead with two races to go. After that, anything could've happened. 1999 Moral champ is HHF.

I find it interesting though that Benetton signed Lehto for 1994, as Benetton must have been a pretty attractive team at the time as they were a firm Top3 team on the grid in 1992-93. Is there any information as to why Benetton signed Lehto and nobody else? And who else did they consider for the seat?

Michele Alboreto.

Other than that Herbert never had any realistic chances to win races and most of his unluck was while fighting at best for a couple of points. So where does this "Herbert - unlucky" mantra come from? Unless they mean the 1988 injury.
.

He was often in points positions at Lotus, before it broke down.

[rjbetty]

Did Benetton consider Michele Alboreto for the ´94 seat? That's a bit of a surprise. I know they considered Luca Badoer, and Paul Tracy tested for them.

I am personally surprised they didn't resign Martin Brundle really, considering he was harshly sacked scoring 38pts in 1992. Sure they'd have had the constructors' in the bag.


Herbert outqualified Hakkinen over 1992 at Lotus(!) iirc, but only finished 4 races, if that...

[jens]

Sorry Jens.

Didnt mean to upset you. I guess its right that Herbert was lucky with his wins. I think its a British thing. It has been labelled as unlucky and it sticks.

For me though I still think he did a good job in 1995 and I stand by ranking him 3rd.

No worries mate.

All I try to highlight is that there are a lot of expressions around (if to call them like that) that once you deepen into it, don't really mean anything significant. Basically many drivers can be called unlucky.

[jens]

Rjbetty, I agree that Button did well in 2003. This is something I learnt retrospectively. Back then when I was following 2003, I didn't get the impression Button was better than Villeneuve. He seemed more fortunate with less reliability issues to me. And like years have shown, uneven reliability can often have a significant influence in the outcome of team-mate battles. One of the better cases in point: Coulthard-Webber 14:10 in 2007. Though Webber was better, obviously.

But the last two races of 2003 did make an impression on me – Button was leading the US GP before engine let go (and he would have finished at least 3rd if not battled for second with Räikkönen) and he finished fourth in Japan. This strong finish prompted new team boss David Richards to claim that BAR was to become a truly strong team in 2004 - a statement which I was unsureof how seriously to take.

Villeneuve seemed fine to me around 2001-2002 even if not great. Fine in terms fo being about on level with Fisichella, Heidfeld, Trulli, etc. I rated all those drivers very high. Panis was okayish, but a smidgen off all of them. When Button matched Villeneuve, he seeme part of that „good“ group too, like he seemed already in 2002. So 2001 against Fisichella seemed a blip, when Button was too inexperienced and arguably didn’t have the right commitment to F1. I never thought Villeneuve was a match to M.Schumacher and an all-time legend. But from 2003 Villeneuve started slipping off this „very good“ label.

I am surprised to learn Benetton considered Alboreto. He must have been well past his prime by then. I was wondering more about, didn’t Benetton consider guys like Barrichello (who left a promising impression already in 1993 with his Donington drive), Christian Fittipaldi, Wendlinger, Herbert himself.

Thinking about it, Lehto was in a good position in the driver market. The old guard was retiring and the new drivers (Barrichello, Frentzen, Panis, Irvine, etc) hadn’t established themselves yet. So in this context Lehto looked like an „okay“ driver choice for Benetton before 1994. But it didn’t work out at all. And the new generation quickly took over before Lehto disappeared from F1 scene.

Benetton sacking Brundle is one of the mysterious things, because subsequently hiring past-his-prime Patrese and the next Benetton drivers didn’t make much sense, since they were way off in performance. And I guess there was a bit of bad blood between Brundle and Briatore, hence Benetton didn’t take him back for 1994.

I agree Brundle did well in his partial Ligier season in 1995. This also put a slight dent on Panis’ reputation as he seemed to have started out really well as a rookie in 1994 against Bernard.

HHF had 2nd place in the bag very late in Canada, before his brakes failed, causing him to crash. He was in control at the Nurburgring, and would've won, before hydraulics or something like that stopped the car. Had he won, he would've been within a couple of points from the title lead with two races to go. After that, anything could've happened. 1999 Moral champ is HHF.

I am aware HHF retired on a few occasions, but compared to drivers, whose car broke down in at least half of the races, it was a much better reliability.

[jens]

Drivers in 2005

So that was it. Michael Schumacher, who dominated in 2004, lost his crown. He was still driving very well, some of his performances were legendary (Imola race, Hungary qualifying), but he also made a fair few mistakes. The strangest one spinning out in China warm-up lap. I thought he doesn't have the reflexes of a young man any more, which is why he made more mistakes. But he was still fast.

But Alonso and Räikkönen took over the crown. It looked like they were worthy successors. Already seemed at least on level with M.Schumacher, even if car differences were big. It was hard to choose, who was better between Alonso and Räikkönen at the time. Both performing very well, but in different cars and circumstances.

2005 was a season, where some of the former driver ratings were shattered. A season, which showed that perhaps some of the drivers, who very highly rated before were not that good.

I expected Montoya to get beaten by Räikkönen. He took a lot of time to get up to speed, but since Canada his speed was very good. But he was still making clumsy mistakes and losing points. Typical JPM. It looked like inconsistency is what prevents from being a top driver.

Fisichella was suffering from lots of unluck. I still believed he had the potential to be very good, but was just shafted by Renault like his predecessor Trulli. Still, the season didn't make Fisi look good and he had a few serious off-weekends.

Trulli had a great 2/3rds of the season and was a firm top5/6 driver on the grid for me. But his end of the season was an uphill battle with being nowhere and R.Schumacher outpointed him with the final race. This hurt me and made me think Trulli really wasn't very good. Sad moment of "realization".

Webber was very highly rated prior joining Williams and was expected to show up Heidfeld, but it didn't happen. At one point he started making mistakes (Nürburgring start incident) and then underperformed. After Heidfeld's injury he got two fourth places, but it didn't convince me any more. I thought Webber hasn't got what it takes. In retrospect it was too harsh - I think he was at least a match to Heidfeld during their time together.

Drivers, whose reputation stayed intact and they still looked very good: Button and Heidfeld.

Button trashed Sato and scored super-consistently. But many people thought it wasn't convincing, since Sato "sucked". 2006 was supposed to tell, how good Button really is. Because proven quality driver Barrichello joined Honda. I still thought Button was very good and thought he'd likely beat Barrichello (very close to being a top6 driver throughout years), which would confirm Button as a top driver.

Heidfeld enhanced his reputation by outscoring Webber. He was signed as the lead driver by the new BMW Sauber. Things were looking up for the German, who just a year before wasn't rated at all and struggled to find a seat in F1.

A redeeming year for Coulthard - he was a bit better than the rubbish form of 2003/2004 showed. Red Bull athmosphere suited him. And the new 1-tyre-rule regulations. He looked like a very solid and competent midfield driver, not a washed-up man.

Massa looked solid as always - narrowly beat Villeneuve, who by all accounts was considered well past his prime now. Many criticized Ferrari for hiring Massa (who?), but I thought he could do a solid job, since I still remembered him being promising speed-wise even if results hadn't come.

[D-Type]

Folks, can we please limit discussion to seasons before any of the current drivers entered Formula 1 - one definition of 'History'. Otherwise it will creep up to the present day.

[steveaki13]

I understand and respect that but I believe if we talk about 2009 for example on F1 thread we get told to come here.

I would have thought anything outside the last couple of years is "history" really.

As long as there is an understanding between Mods on both sides about the fact we can only talk pre2000 say here. And we can talk post 2000 on the F1 thread.

Otherwise we get pointed in either direction by both sides.

[rjbetty]

Folks, can we please limit discussion to seasons before any of the current drivers entered Formula 1 - one definition of 'History'. Otherwise it will creep up to the present day.

Hi D, it´s cool, I respect your view too, but I kinda feel history is what's in the past. I'm only planning to go up to 2007 anyway, especially as I was away from F1 after 2007 till late 2009, and I've already done reviews/rankings for each year from 2010, in my ancient post history.


And now some thoughts on 2004 (I will probably only do some now )



24.Zsolt Baumgartner - Surprise! But did a respectable diligent job, being there to take a precious point at Indy.

23.Gianmaria Bruni - Was very disappointed and expected better from a driver I was a big fan of from British F3. Was only 0.7sec ahead of Baumgartner, showing he badly underperformed. Made Stoddy furious by parking an ok car at Indy - if Baumgartner had broken down, that would be no points.

22.Giorgio Pantano - Surely did better than Bruni, but anonymous and attitude was a bit lame too.

21.Jacques Villeneuve - Only a short gap away from being a few positions higher, but can't put him higher than this really. For a world champion very disappointing. Even taking into account the lay-off, he was the worst Renault driver between Wurz and Piquet Jr imo. I still believed in Jacques as at least a potential top driver and was excited for his Renault debut, believing he could be much better now he'd got out of the poisonous situation at BAR.

20.Marc Gené - Slammed as slow, but he seemed impressively close to Montoya to me.

19.Ricardo Zonta - Shone at Spa after qualifying 20th in an amazing 4th place, cruelly denied by DNF a few laps from home. Close to Panis, but that may be more Olivier being past it tbh.

18.Christian Klien - As good as could be expected for one so young. Pretty close to being the first F1 driver to be younger than me (less than 1 year - that's a good idea for an intriguing topic actually...)

17.Cristiano da Matta - A goodish 6th at Monaco but no more points. Some goodish low-fuel quali performances, but otherwise disappointing, but most of all his attitude and approach. I liked Cristiano and had hoped for more...

16.Olivier Panis - I liked Olivier and hoped for a good 2004 from him, but he was definitely past it now, getting caught up in several rookie collisions and errors. Had a better approach than da Matta and it was very gentlemanly of him to give up his place one race early so Zonta could take part in his home race at Brazil.

15.Timo Glock - What an impressive debut. Canada is a track Timo has always gone well at, but 7th (albeit after 4 disqualifications) in a car equivalent of this years Sauber was very good. Generally faster and more driven than Pantano.


More to follow...