Personal insults

[jens]

Thanks for some thoughts, mates.

A superb post by dj_bytedisaster here. I know you have a tendency to get overemotional about issues and I have at times wondered, how to approach you. I think we can understand each other that we can all get emotional, frustrated, and make posts in the heat of the moment. After all we have heard drivers saying all kinds of things in the heat of the moment over team radio. So we are humans as well and can overreact. But it is certainly possible for a human to train the way of expressing the emotion - and most crucially that it isn't "against" anyone, be it a poster or a driver. That it isn't channelened negatively, which hurts others.

Great thoughts by Bagwan as well all through the thread. I think the good thing is that if we all share our sincere thoughts, we can all learn from each other and in that way get closer.

I have to admit I don't agree with Knock-On's mentality that it is fine to make "flippant remarks" (as he calls it) about trolls. I am surprised you have taken such stance, maybe you can explain it, why do you think it is fine? Because if we take from a pure discussion point of view - logically it doesn't add anything to discussion. It drags is off-topic. And based on individuals those remarks may well seem personal attacks. And this is what we are discussing - threads getting derailed in one way or another. Remarks about posters - even if they are meant as a joke - will do just that whether you like it or not. Especially if you know you don't get away with it and get a reaction from the other guy. Most of all we need to think of the consequences of our posts - including the consequences of humour as well. Not all humour is good-natured, some is harsh as well.

I know Garry Walker is such guy, who thinks that rude language is absolutely fine for him - and he has mentioned it too. He has been brought up in a different way, his personal culture is different. Maybe it works fine for him in everyday life, who am I to know. But in our culture here it doesn't work, because we have very different people and we have to adapt accordingly.

In terms of moderating... well, one thing is that I am not that often getting involved. I feel I need to live a harmonious life as much as I can and if I get too involved here, it would ruin the balance of life somewhat. Another thing is that I have personally been more prone to gentler and softer moderation approach, which some have questioned. Well, one thing comes from the attitude about human nature in general. I like to be very positive and really believe in unlocking the good side of humans. So I don't want to create bad feelings too easily in banning someone, who could just keep re-appearing with frustration all the time. As long as I can, I would like to discuss and discuss. And finally find the common ground between us. This is because in the long-term it would have a better effect. This thread is a good case. We actually discuss, debate, think and finally all become better human things instead of just silently doing our own business. This thread was needed in order to understand each other better. Understanding is the keyword for me - regardless of how much time it takes, it is worth the effort. Of course there are or can be cases, which are absolutely hopeless. But at least the rest of us would be wise enough to see it through by then.

[steveaki13]

Well I personally havent added anyone to my ignore list.

I find a few posters on here views occasionally nasty, but on the whole I have time for all and just let most thinks wash over me.

One thing I do hate though is SPAMMERS.

But hey come on guys lets try and be friends while trying to prove someones opinions completely loopy.

[Bagwan]

Seeing as you are the third member who has brought this up, can I claim to be ganged upon now too? Seriously though I'm not that soft, deeply disappointed and surprised by your comments but I'm not going to claim victim. If this individual is welcome by most of you then fair enough, I've made my choice and am not in the least bit tempted to read their comments. If I have offended some of you by responding to this individual then hey I'm sorry, not much but it's the thing to say in situations like this. I'm starting to think this thread has done more harm than good, we've learnt a little more about each other I think.

Try to take donKey's words constructively .
He was braver than I to tackle this issue directly(thank-you donKey) .

It's the piling on that I mentioned earlier , with some of you cats seemingly getting it into a regular spiral downwards .
I can't dismiss the actions of Vhatever either , as he certainly played his role , but it's sure hard to figure out who's wearing the white hat in the western movie when that posse rounds the bend .

Ignore him if you wish .
I'm sorry if I feel the need to quote him in a reply , as you'll see it unless you ignore me as well .
And I hope you don't .

Suffice it to say that I will be replying to his post if I feel that it deserves it .

I don't want you , vhatever , muskie Jim , or anyone else to leave .
I like you all .

[jens]

Overall as a conclusion from this thread I can see that people would like a more decisive action from mods in the event of personal attacks.

So far this may not have been the case due to following reasons:
- as world is not black-and-whitish, it is not always a clear, who or what is a "troll". One may point to other that he is a troll, while the same person may not be any different without recognizing it.
- before vhatever - who people complain about - came along, I am sure several posters were not free of guilt in making personal attacks either. As a result you take your time to evaluate the situation.
- the way forum has become more passive in recent years. I think this has contributed to the greater amount of "rubbish talk". Because there is not much to talk about and probably several quality posters have disappeared, so... well, there is nothing to talk about and people start talking about each other. Maybe it is a natural effect that cannot be helped in a more passive forum. As said, this is about general athmosphere. If we had an active forum full of intelligent members, trolls would not feel welcome and would not have much to add to discussion. But in a different forum they can have a more serious effect.

You can think about your everyday life. You can be part of different groups of people in different moments. You may talk about some things among one group of people, but another group is a bit different and you don't feel comfortable to mention same things there - you'd need to adapt to the wavelength on which they are.

But in case of changing the strategy and seriously adding infractions for every single personal attack one needs to be very careful, because easily several people can fall victim of this even without instantly recognizing it. It would not be very good to ban half of the people in an already quite a passive forum. :

It reminds me a bit of school situation. Some kids come from strange families or have had some setbacks in their early life development, are hyperactive, can't control themselves or there is some other issue. But when they are at school, they are also part of school society - you can't throw them at the street and tell you can't come to school any more. At least such option hasn't been created in the society yet or at best it takes some time and bureaucracy before you can send someone to some other so-called special school, depending on the seriousness of the problem.

Meantime in the event of trouble other kids can easily start crying "oh he did or said that, so unfair!!" What are you going to do with it? All this while you can't make the 'culprit' disappear from the school society. And you can't help/change some people or at least the process would be very slow. Obviously you can do your best to convince children to concentrate on the good and important things, see the big picture and not take things personally. And learn from this. To deal with the inevitabilities of the society.

Talking from my own experience, have been working at school in the past.

[donKey jote]

Speak for yourself

Please refrain from personal insults. Even if you think the person you are attacking somehow 'deserves' it, if you post a personal attack you are damaging the forum. So stop. Thank you.

[CaptainRaiden]

God, this much melodrama for banging away on the keyboard gossiping about the F1 people, 99% of whom don't even know we exist.

I don't think Lewis or Seb have problems getting to sleep in the night thinking about what vhatever and Garry think about them.

Can't we all just get along?

[TheFamousEccles]

Wow, this thread sure grew some legs...

[Big Ben]

can we all hug and kiss now? are we there yet?

[Mark]

No; we have to do forum hunger games first

[Whyzars]

My wife ignores me.