Josef Stalin

[BDunnell]

But then why mr. Churchill and Mr. Roosevelt didn't take these into account at Yalta conference?

It is an interesting fact — not opinion — that some of the most vehement anti-Communists in the UK after the war were socialists, such as members of Clement Attlee's first post-war Labour administration, something a lot of right-wingers find hard to understand.

[Gregor-y]

The political spectrum is a circle so when you go too far to the perceived left you tend to end up returning via the right.

It works the other way, too.

[Garry Walker]

In what way?

History lesson. Stalin wanted Hitler to go to war with other major european countries, drain the resources, then come in and "free" the whole europe from nazis. That was the whole point of MRP for Stalin. He was a smart man and knew well enough what that pact would result in - whole out war in europe, not just the dividing of the baltic states and Poland. That is exactly what he wanted. In fact, according to MRP, Stalin was supposed to attack Poland on 1st september as well, but he said he wasn't ready, so their attack was delayed until 17th september. It is weird how France and UK didn't declare war on USSR, but did on Germany.
Thankfully Hitler did europe a favour by attacking USSR first and forcing such huge losses on them that come 1945, Soviets couldn't go any further.

Why? I think they are more a danger to their own people and those of former Soviet states than they are the West.

Aren't former Soviet states european countries? Could you not, based on their economic developments, classify them under western countries?

But then why mr. Churchill and Mr. Roosevelt didn't take these into account at Yalta conference?

When the war in europe was less than 2 months from the finish? To be honest, I have zero respect for both of them for siding with USSR in WW2 (nor should they have sided with Germany), but I guess they feared Hitler more than Stalin.

It is an interesting fact — not opinion — that some of the most vehement anti-Communists in the UK after the war were socialists, such as members of Clement Attlee's first post-war Labour administration, something a lot of right-wingers find hard to understand.

Even the rabied communists that are still in existence these days (as sad as that fact might be that some people are so insane) are full of hate towards your average liberal.

[BDunnell]

Aren't former Soviet states european countries? Could you not, based on their economic developments, classify them under western countries?

Er... no, because the terms 'eastern' and 'western' are geographical, not economic. You couldn't call Japan a western country, would you?

[Garry Walker]

Er... no, because the terms 'eastern' and 'western' are geographical, not economic. You couldn't call Japan a western country, would you?

Western world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want geographical terminology, then Germany is not a western country, as it is in the eastern hemisphere.

Anyway, any comments on MRP or who started the world war 2?

[BDunnell]

Anyway, any comments on MRP or who started the world war 2?

No, because not having myself read about what you describe, I have no way of coming to my own view on it.

[gadjo_dilo]

History lesson. Stalin wanted Hitler to go to war with other major european countries, drain the resources, then come in and "free" the whole europe from nazis. That was the whole point of MRP for Stalin. He was a smart man and knew well enough what that pact would result in - whole out war in europe, not just the dividing of the baltic states and Poland. That is exactly what he wanted. In fact, according to MRP, Stalin was supposed to attack Poland on 1st september as well, but he said he wasn't ready, so their attack was delayed until 17th september. It is weird how France and UK didn't declare war on USSR, but did on Germany.
Thankfully Hitler did europe a favour by attacking USSR first and forcing such huge losses on them that come 1945, Soviets couldn't go any further.

Aren't former Soviet states european countries? Could you not, based on their economic developments, classify them under western countries?

When the war in europe was less than 2 months from the finish? To be honest, I have zero respect for both of them for siding with USSR in WW2 (nor should they have sided with Germany), but I guess they feared Hitler more than Stalin.

The way I perceive the facts is a bit different. By Ribbentrop-Molotov pact in 1939 Hitler and Stalin divided their sphere of their influence in Eastern Europe.

Then, in 1945, at Yalta, Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill played again with the destiny of millions of people in the east.

For me all these guys are guilty. I know things are more complicated in politics and national interest is always what it counts ( they say that even Lenin was brought to Russia by german secret services), but still...

I don't care if today my country is classified as western ( now don't make me laugh.....) or eastern. Economic development is relative but the psychic trauma we have suffered for about 50 years will follow us for a very long period of time.

[EuroTroll]

Can I just say that I am wiruwiru and I approve Garry Walker's messages on this thread.

Ben, where would you draw the line between East and West? Still along the Iron Curtain? I don't think the distinction is so much geographical as it is cultural. As Samuel Huntington would probably say, it's a matter of civilizations. Here is his map of civilizations from 1996.

[BDunnell]

Can I just say that I am wiruwiru and I approve Garry Walker's messages on this thread.

Ben, where would you draw the line between East and West? Still along the Iron Curtain? I don't think the distinction is so much geographical as it is cultural. As Samuel Huntington would probably say, it's a matter of civilizations. Here is his map of civilizations from 1996.

I take it purely as a geographical term. This doesn't disguise the fact that it is now outdated.

[gadjo_dilo]

Interesting that japanese are on their own like some sort of ET-s.