Villeneuve: Raikkonen title not deserved

[The Black Knight]

I'm pretty sure I remember from what I read of the onlookers' account, Michael first of course asked DC if he was trying to kill him, and then wanted to punch him screaming "I'm gonna f*ing kill you." There is reference made to the threatening part here on 1998 Belgian Grand Prix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Schumacher may benefit from ban on refuelling, says Coulthard - Motor Racing, Sport - The Independent

Ok fair enough. I had either forgotten about that part of the incident or never read it before. Bad form from MS for sure and a stupid move from Coulthard.

I'm sorry but that's purely speculative. IFs, buts, coulda-shouldas don't decide championships. IF the Mclaren was a more reliable car in 2000, and Ferrari wasn't the best car towards the end of the season, Hakkinen would have won his third.

Yes, it’s pure speculation but had he won that race Schuey would have only had to finish the Japanese GP in 5th position to retain the title, a task that would have been more than possible had he not pushed so hard that the good year tyres blew out. But, as you say, it's speculation and probably not worth discussing further

Look, there are tons of excuses for every famous driver's every questionable move, and we can spend another decade debating that. IMO all those three things were intentional. But that's not what I have my beef with.
What I have a problem with is MS fans bashing Lewis for being an aggressive driver and speaking his mind, which is really hugely contradictory, because MS himself has been fiercely competitive and aggressive throughout his career. So, I can't really understand what they have as an ideal. Lewis hasn't tried to take out his championship rival deliberately ever, yet for these people, MS with his Jerez incident and other questionable antics, is a hero, and they have been laying it into Lewis ever since Monaco, and if given the opportunity, will bash the crap out of Lewis for the next decade.
Why the double standards? What is this hatred based on?

Yeah, I'm completely onboard with you on this. It is a double standard. Personally, I have no issue with the way Hamilton or Schumacher go or went about their business. We're all human and make mistakes. When I raced I was unyielding and this is the way you had to do it to succeed. It's grand sitting back on the armchair saying this and that standard should have been adhered to but a driver doesn't have the benefit of hindsight. It's a split second decision that may or may not end up in disaster. You see a gap and you go for it. You leave a gap open, realise it and you decide to shut it or not. Sometimes your judgement from the cockpit isn't ideal and that is why we are human not Gods. Apart from Senna in Japan 90, I never rememebr seeing an incident where a driver intentionally put another drivers life at risk. It is still the most appalling act I've ever seen on an F1 circuit.

[CaptainRaiden]

Ok fair enough. I had either forgotten about that part of the incident or never read it before. Bad form from MS for sure and a stupid move from Coulthard.

Yes, it’s pure speculation but had he won that race Schuey would have only had to finish the Japanese GP in 5th position to retain the title, a task that would have been more than possible had he not pushed so hard that the good year tyres blew out. But, as you say, it's speculation and probably not worth discussing further

If we would debate about ifs and buts, I would arrive on the conclusion that MS would have 5 championships instead of 7, while you would have a completely opposite view.

Yeah, I'm completely onboard with you on this. It is a double standard. Personally, I have no issue with the way Hamilton or Schumacher go or went about their business. We're all human and make mistakes. When I raced I was unyielding and this is the way you had to do it to succeed. It's grand sitting back on the armchair saying this and that standard should have been adhered to but a driver doesn't have the benefit of hindsight. It's a split second decision that may or may not end up in disaster. You see a gap and you go for it. You leave a gap open, realise it and you decide to shut it or not. Sometimes your judgement from the cockpit isn't ideal and that is why we are human not Gods. Apart from Senna in Japan 90, I never rememebr seeing an incident where a driver intentionally put another drivers life at risk. It is still the most appalling act I've ever seen on an F1 circuit.

I agree about the unyielding part. That's the way I raced too. If half the people here had raced in a professional karting race, they won't be screaming bloody mary for every little bump and scrape that happens during racing.

You could argue that Senna's move on Prost was a retaliation for what Prost pulled a year before, but that's a whole another debate. I'm a Senna fan, and have absolutely no problems with Lewis' driving or how he handles himself. I don't agree with certain traits in MS' personality, or the way he handled things, or else I would have been his fan as well. And that's only a personal opinion. Lewis' Monaco interview was ballsy and straight up I-don't-give-a-f*ck material, a fresh breath of air from the regular drab PR talk we hear from other drivers usually.

Sadly so many toys were thrown out of the pram by little rainbow-lovin princesses everywhere, that we'll never hear entertaining post-race comments like those ever again.

[The Black Knight]

I agree about the unyielding part. That's the way I raced too. If half the people here had raced in a professional karting race, they won't be screaming bloody mary for every little bump and scrape that happens during racing.

You could argue that Senna's move on Prost was a retaliation for what Prost pulled a year before, but that's a whole another debate. I'm a Senna fan, and have absolutely no problems with Lewis' driving or how he handles himself. I don't agree with certain traits in MS' personality, or the way he handled things, or else I would have been his fan as well. And that's only a personal opinion. Lewis' Monaco interview was ballsy and straight up I-don't-give-a-f*ck material, a fresh breath of air from the regular drab PR talk we hear from other drivers usually.

Sadly so many toys were thrown out of the pram by little rainbow-lovin princesses everywhere, that we'll never hear entertaining post-race comments like those ever again.

Well, retaliation or not, it was still intentional. It was still wrong and completely uncalled for. I love Senna but it puts a pit in my stomach when I think about that incident. I would have never put another competitors life intentionally at risk no matter how much I hated him.

Agreed on the rest of your post. There is a class of folk here and in general that watch F1 that expect every little move to be scrutinised. To be honest, I feel the stewards this year are making a complete balls of everything. It's reverted back to 2008 and 2009 levels where every little incursion was penalised. It's bad for the sport. These guys are racers and there will always be mistakes and collisions and unless it's blatantly obvious a driver intentionally took out another I really feel that most incidents should remain unpunished. It's racing and we want these guys to race. We want them to speak their minds.

Imagine Nelson Piquet Snr in todays modern day F1? Look at some of the comments that he made during his career. It was appalling, entertaining and he was a completely original character. Personally, I liked him.

[F1boat]

I agree Michael Schumacher has got alot more instances to his credit rather than negative. Its just a shame you can't apply that logic to Lewis when its obvious he's also done great things

That is quite simply a lie. I was one of the first to congratulate Lewis after his brilliant victory in Nurburgring and after his championship title in 2008, even if I don't like him. I also admired the way he tried to fight with the superior RBR team last year.
I just happen not like his style which I think is consistently dangerous to the rest of the drivers and I don't admire at all his attitude in front of the camera. If you like it, fair play to you. But I have the right to prefer the attitude of a highly professional driver like Michael Schumacher, despite the THREE big accidents in his career (1994, 1997 and 2006).
About Raiden, the way he misquoted the accident in Suzuka shows that he is a blind hater of MS, nothing more. Also, I can't remember gesture like Michael did to Giancarlo in 1997. I have never seen something like that. I'd be happy if before commenting, people google the case and do not simply "hate, hate, hate".
But you know, the thread was of JV and the way he speaks rubbish. Well, not only speaks, BTW. Google youtube to see what he did to Ambrose in NASCAR. And this driver dared to talk about dirty driving... ridiculous.

[CaptainRaiden]

Also, I can't remember gesture like Michael did to Giancarlo in 1997. I have never seen something like that. I'd be happy if before commenting, people google the case and do not simply "hate, hate, hate".

[youtube]djxUK9QDLw4[/youtube]

[youtube]0Cykz8Pg0Ds[/youtube]

[youtube]xYwptTETj9Q[/youtube]

[youtube]v1VTyAIMEao[/youtube]

This is just too easy...

[The Black Knight]

That is quite simply a lie. I was one of the first to congratulate Lewis after his brilliant victory in Nurburgring and after his championship title in 2008, even if I don't like him. I also admired the way he tried to fight with the superior RBR team last year.
I just happen not like his style which I think is consistently dangerous to the rest of the drivers and I don't admire at all his attitude in front of the camera. If you like it, fair play to you. But I have the right to prefer the attitude of a highly professional driver like Michael Schumacher, despite the THREE big accidents in his career (1994, 1997 and 2006).
About Raiden, the way he misquoted the accident in Suzuka shows that he is a blind hater of MS, nothing more. Also, I can't remember gesture like Michael did to Giancarlo in 1997. I have never seen something like that. I'd be happy if before commenting, people google the case and do not simply "hate, hate, hate".
But you know, the thread was of JV and the way he speaks rubbish. Well, not only speaks, BTW. Google youtube to see what he did to Ambrose in NASCAR. And this driver dared to talk about dirty driving... ridiculous.

Oh come on, do you now remember Hungaroring last year? I can't think of a situation where Lewis did anything as potentially dangerous as MS did to Barrichello then. I'm a Schuey fan like, but a bit of perspective about the man, please.

[CaptainRaiden]

I just happen not like his style which I think is consistently dangerous to the rest of the drivers

Says the MS fan. The double standards displayed by some MS fans is just hilarious. Also, you might wanna check the "kindness" displayed in those four videos I posted above, which somehow you missed while skipping through rainbows with hippie music in the background in your Schumacher loving world. Newsflash, there is this thing called Formula 1, which is independent of and doesn't revolve around Michael Schumacher.

Also a good advice is to check your own eyesight before branding other people blind haters. Your blind hatred for Lewis is SO obvious, it's getting to the point of being ridiculous. Stop denying and try to find out why you "really" hate him.

[Bagwan]

Let's try to remember , kids , that this is about how JV caused an outrage by saying that Felipe , perhaps , deserved a title more than Kimi , when he was recently down racing in Brazil .

As his opinion about it is debatable , how's about we think about debating the point , rather than throwing rocks ?
It's getting a touch tiresome hearing how blind everyone seems to be .

[F1boat]

Oh come on, do you now remember Hungaroring last year?

In my opinion it was an ugly move, but in the end there was not hit - only a menace. Michael in my opinion tried to intimidate Rubihno, but not actually hit him. Very distasteful, but not as bad as turning your car in front of the other machines, like Lewis did in GP2 (I think in Istanbul, it kinda like his move in Hungary against di Resta, but only much worse).
In the end I think that all great drivers are kinda ruthless, some more than the others. IMO Michael plays dirty sometimes, but Lewis is very instinctive and therefore more dangerous - again IMO. But my point was that I liked the media attitude of Michael better than the one of Lewis - this was dragged into a childish argument who of the two drivers is more evil, kinda like "Vader vs Maul" thread in a Star Wars forum.
Lord Raiden, thank you for the links. I am glad to see that Michael is in such dignified company of great drivers. I also admit that I did not watch F1 regularly prior to 1996, because I was a little child back then and preferred the "Ninja Turtles" cartoon. Because I am tired of pointless arguing, I will not answer your banter about MS fans. I will just say that many fans defend their favorite drivers, no matter how awful they are sometimes. About the fact that I hate Lewis, you are again wrong. He is simply annoying. I do think that hatred is bad for health and I don't really hate anyone. I strongly recommend you to stop hating MS as well.
Bagwan, well, it was a stupid thing for JV to say and sometimes I find him too very annoying, I think that right now Ambrose agrees with me. But I liked him, when he was a young driver and I was a teenager and I still think that in his good years he was a very good driver

[Bagwan]

In my opinion it was an ugly move, but in the end there was not hit - only a menace. Michael in my opinion tried to intimidate Rubihno, but not actually hit him. Very distasteful, but not as bad as turning your car in front of the other machines, like Lewis did in GP2 (I think in Istanbul, it kinda like his move in Hungary against di Resta, but only much worse).
In the end I think that all great drivers are kinda ruthless, some more than the others. IMO Michael plays dirty sometimes, but Lewis is very instinctive and therefore more dangerous - again IMO. But my point was that I liked the media attitude of Michael better than the one of Lewis - this was dragged into a childish argument who of the two drivers is more evil, kinda like "Vader vs Maul" thread in a Star Wars forum.
Lord Raiden, thank you for the links. I am glad to see that Michael is in such dignified company of great drivers. I also admit that I did not watch F1 regularly prior to 1996, because I was a little child back then and preferred the "Ninja Turtles" cartoon. Because I am tired of pointless arguing, I will not answer your banter about MS fans. I will just say that many fans defend their favorite drivers, no matter how awful they are sometimes. About the fact that I hate Lewis, you are again wrong. He is simply annoying. I do think that hatred is bad for health and I don't really hate anyone. I strongly recommend you to stop hating MS as well.
Bagwan, well, it was a stupid thing for JV to say and sometimes I find him too very annoying, I think that right now Ambrose agrees with me. But I liked him, when he was a young driver and I was a teenager and I still think that in his good years he was a very good driver

Nicely tempered post F1boat .

I agree with it all , but for the part about Jacques being annoying .
And , Ambrose is a dick .

His comment about Kimi perhaps was a touch too pandering to a pro-Massa crowd , but that's about the worst I can see about it .
It's his opinion , and it's debatable , so what's wrong with it ?