The Ferrari thread !

[SGWilko]

If you fired an employee for failing to execute a direction that would be in violation of food handling regulations, do you think that would somehow exempt you for being fined for the violation taking place?

Or, in Baggy's case, the employee left because she didn't fit, because she did not feel cleaning toilets as a trained food handler was appropriate, then a clear case for constructive dismissal is very likely to result in a win for said ex employee.

[Rodster]

So Ferrari now wants Massa to help Fred win the WDC. If I were Massa i'd say no problem mate i've got your back.

[ioan]

As for your restaurant, fully accepting that your job decription does cover all normal activities such as cleaning, you still aren't making the proper comparison. If you fired an employee for failing to execute a direction that would be in violation of food handling regulations, do you think that would somehow exempt you for being fined for the violation taking place?

Not only that, he would be also fined for trying to force an employee to perform unlawful activities and for firing the employee because he/she refused to perform an unlawful activity. That would be 3 times braking the rules in one move, at least in Europe, maybe in Canada they don't care if a food handler has to clean up the kitchen and toilets too, however I doubt it.

Ferrari can not fire Massa if he refuses to obey illegal team orders.

Not to mention that Massa's manager is Todt's son, which further complicates the situation.

[Bagwan]

Ferrari cost themselves a fine, due to the fact that they manipulated the drivers changing position. After creating a handicap for Massa, they declared Alonso quicker and made it clear that Massa was to yeild the position.

As for your restaurant, fully accepting that your job decription does cover all normal activities such as cleaning, you still aren't making the proper comparison. If you fired an employee for failing to execute a direction that would be in violation of food handling regulations, do you think that would somehow exempt you for being fined for the violation taking place?

Firstly , shifter , had Smedley and Massa done as directed , nobody would have known specifically that it had been done .
The engine performance level changes came after two reminders that Alonso was faster .

As to my restaurant employee , there was no violation of food handling regs .
They simply didn't want to do the job I asked of them .
It's not difficult to understand that I didn't want to pay someone to not do the job , when others are happy to take thier turn , is it ?

Lots of others would drive that car , if he decides he doesn't want to drive for the team .

[Bagwan]

Or, in Baggy's case, the employee left because she didn't fit, because she did not feel cleaning toilets as a trained food handler was appropriate, then a clear case for constructive dismissal is very likely to result in a win for said ex employee.

That might be the case if she hadn't known it was part of the job .

[Bagwan]

Not only that, he would be also fined for trying to force an employee to perform unlawful activities and for firing the employee because he/she refused to perform an unlawful activity. That would be 3 times braking the rules in one move, at least in Europe, maybe in Canada they don't care if a food handler has to clean up the kitchen and toilets too, however I doubt it.

Ferrari can not fire Massa if he refuses to obey illegal team orders.

Not to mention that Massa's manager is Todt's son, which further complicates the situation.

Part of the 3 day course people take to be qualified as a food handler deals with how to wash one's hands .
Every food handler must be very diligent to prevent contamination .

I asked nothing illegal of my employee .

Similarly , Massa was told he was slower , which is a directive to work for the team .
He made to choice to act for the team , and despite having done it in the most obvious way possible , did it so as not to be fired , for refusing to do as asked .

And , had he done it the "legal" way(ie - not so obviously) , they would not have been fined .

[markabilly]

So Ferrari now wants Massa to help Fred win the WDC. If I were Massa i'd say no problem mate i've got your back.

I find that public statement very strange.....if you want your driver to perform and how, you tell him in private. The verbiage was very much like some sort of PR campaign to permit ferrari to replace him without fan backlash...see we told him and he did not. So now may the kube will do it.... It also smacks of a very public broadcast of see here, we are issuing team orders, and DOING IT IN PUBLIC AND IN YOUR FACE

[Rodster]

I find that public statement very strange.....if you want your driver to perform and how, you tell him in private. The verbiage was very much like some sort of PR campaign to permit ferrari to replace him without fan backlash...see we told him and he did not. So now may the kube will do it.... It also smacks of a very public broadcast of see here, we are issuing team orders, and DOING IT IN PUBLIC AND IN YOUR FACE

That's why it would have been in Massa's best interest to give the middle finger to Ferrari and MAKE Fred pass him. If he was questioned as to why he held up Fred I would say they wanted me to let him through. Then an investigation would have ensued which would have shown Ferrari had asked Felipe to slow down his car while letting Fred come back up to full power.

Felipe is the only reason I still follow Ferrari, once he's gone it's anybody but them. mokin:

[SGWilko]

The engine performance level changes came after two reminders that Alonso was faster .

Did they though? How long had Massa been on a 'lower' setting that Alonso. And why did Alonso need a boost if he is the faster driver?

[Rodster]

IMO Ferrari has taken on the personality of their Star driver Alonso, i.e. say anything do anything as long as we win.