Japanese Grand Prix 2009

[Robinho]

interesting race, bit of a result for Brawn in the end, Jenson was much faster than Rubens when clear, and did well to only lose a point, it seems that Rubens struggled to get the right set up - that can't be right can it?!

i struggle to see how the decided to come up with those grid positions - i know they said they applied penalities in the order the offences were comitted, but how did Sutil go from 4th to 8th and end up behind Rubens who effectively only lost one place? IMO they should have applied all the yellow flag pens at the same time, docking 5 places from each, rather than one at a time, taking places and then bumping peole back up the grid as you knock others down.

[truefan72]

I remember a few years ago in Brazil when, near the end of the race, Webber put his Jag into the wall. There were bits of car all over the track and a tyre sitting right there in the middle. Alonso didn't back off enough, came screaming around the corner straight into the tyre, then smashed head-on into a tyre wall and was in considerable pain when he was stretchered off.

The whole point of yellow flags is to warn drivers that there is changed conditions ahead and to back off. The drivers don't know what those conditions are, so are in no way able to make any judgment decision themselves. If they choose to ignore it and find a car sitting across the middle of the track, they're likely to kill someone.

The problem I had with the Brawns is that the lap under yellows that was deemed illegal and resulted in a penalty was still allowed to stand. If the Brawn drivers did the right thing, they would have started P14 and P15. They broke the rules and were, as a result, reward by gaining positions in Q3. The result was that they started P6 and P10. They gained up to 8 places by ignoring a yellow flag and potentially putting themselves or others in danger. This should not be the way it works. You can't have drivers rewarded for ignoring yellows.

It was suggested on another site that, in qualifying, if a car passes through yellows, the lap should not count (so drivers aren't tempted to compromise safety). The more I think about this, the better it sounds.

Excellent points

especially the nixing of the lap time under the yellow flag

[F1boat]

Horrible race, I am only happy because Jenson held Kubica. Apart from this, that was a weekend in which STR ruined Brawn GP. So this was probably the least enjoyable race for me.

[truefan72]

interesting race, bit of a result for Brawn in the end, Jenson was much faster than Rubens when clear, and did well to only lose a point, it seems that Rubens struggled to get the right set up - that can't be right can it?!

i struggle to see how the decided to come up with those grid positions - i know they said they applied penalities in the order the offences were comitted, but how did Sutil go from 4th to 8th and end up behind Rubens who effectively only lost one place? IMO they should have applied all the yellow flag pens at the same time, docking 5 places from each, rather than one at a time, taking places and then bumping peole back up the grid as you knock others down.

surely it had to be a mistake somehow
because sutil was 4th and rubens 5th
so when sutil dropped rubens would have been 9th and still behind sutil, in fact, both sutil and rubens where assessed the same penalty on the same lap for the same infraction, so they should have dropped together.
so the first revised grid that the FIA put out was this one

1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 658.5kg
2. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 655.5
3. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 656
4. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 660
5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 661
6. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 675
7. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 684.5
8. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 686
9. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 650
10. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 660.5
11. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 682.5
12. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 658.5
13. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari, 661.5
14. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 665.4
15. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 695.7
16. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 691.8
17. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 689.5
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 682.5
19. Timo Glock, Toyota, n/a
20. Mark Webber, Red Bull, n/a


now with kovy's grid place penalty for the gear box change it should have been like this

1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 658.5kg
2. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 655.5
3. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 656
4. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 660
5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 661
6. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 684.5
7. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 686
8. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 650
9. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 660.5
10. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 682.
11. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 675
12. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 658.5
13. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari, 661.5
14. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 665.4
15. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 695.7
16. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 691.8
17. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 689.5
18. Mark Webber, Red Bull, n/a
19. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 682.5
20. Timo Glock, Toyota, n/a


but the final grid looked like this
1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 658.5kg
2. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 655.5
3. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 656
4. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 660
5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 661
6. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP, 660.5
7. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 684.5
8. Adrian Sutil, Force India, 650
9. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 686
10. Jenson Button, Brawn GP, 658.5
11. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 675
12. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, 682.5
13. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, 665.4
14. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari, 661.5
15. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 695.7
16. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 689.5
17. Romain Grosjean, Renault, 691.8
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 682.5
19. Mark Webber, Red Bull, n/a

how did rubens jump nico and kubica?
how did Jenson jump Kovy and Alguersuari ?
still don't understand the FIA thinking

[Dave B]

Horrible race, I am only happy because Jenson held Kubica. Apart from this, that was a weekend in which STR ruined Brawn GP. So this was probably the least enjoyable race for me.

You said after qualifying that you felt Buemi's crash was "suspicious". Do you still believe that?

[HenryM]

I was expecting more for this race, but it was quite boring...
not so different from the tilke tracks.

[jens]

Firstly, how come Rubens started from P6, hence lost only 1 position on the grid due to penalty? The way FIA allocates penalties is just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense at all. Before that yellow flag RB - for instance - was clearly out of Q3, so he gained a lot without lifting. At least now it's clear that in the future no-one will lift in yellow flag zones in qualis, because there is much more to gain even with penalties.

Kovalainen is reaching new lows. When in the past he was at least around P6-P7, when Lewis was driving firmly in podium position, now he was already clearly out of the points. Oh, and shame about Sutil. He had to try an overtake and I think the collision was more Heikki's fault there this time.

[ShiftingGears]

I was expecting more for this race, but it was quite boring...
not so different from the tilke tracks.

Besides the fact that it is challenging, undulating, flowing and punishes the drivers for making mistakes.


So really, it is completely and utterly unlike Tilke tracks. Do you think you will get exciting races at every circuit?

[truefan72]

Kovalainen is reaching new lows. When in the past he was at least around P6-P7, when Lewis was driving firmly in podium position, now he was already clearly out of the points. Oh, and shame about Sutil. He had to try an overtake and I think the collision was more Heikki's fault there this time.

95/5 Kovy/Sutil

Kovy knew he was toast and tried to force the issue being behind and spun Sutil. Sutil didn't give him much room, but expected Kovy to back off instead of ramming him. I was surprised the incident was not investigated and Kovy being brought in for gaining an unfair advantage by driving off the track and then hitting a car coming on. He was pretty much on the grass at Casio and behind sutil. i remember massa getting a penalty for doing that on Hamilton in Japan last year.

[HenryM]

I'm saying that the race wasn't that different (not so exciting as I was expecting, obviously the track is a lot better and more challenging than tilke tracks)...