Loeb is the greatest ever WRC driver - Marcus Gronholm

[AndyRAC]

Not at all. If you do not agree with polls such as this then the only logical vote is a NO vote.

Unquestionably Loeb is the best of the current crop. And his achievements, statistically, are unequalled. He is therefore the most successful driver of all time.

But the "greatest"? That's another story altogether.

I'd agree with this. I'm a big Loeb fan, and he has the most Titles, wins, all the records, etc
But the Greatest, mmm? Not sure about that - the sport is completely different nowadays - and not for the better. However, the small amount of articles in the media I have seen, imply that his achievements are 'tainted' by the lack of competition and the sorry state of the WRC. That's not his fault.

[BDunnell]

The key question is whether he would have been such a force in days gone by. I think all the evidence suggests that he would. Can anyone imagine someone of Loeb's style and ability not having been able to win a five-day RAC or the Safari in the Group B era? I can't. The recent lack of opposition he's faced doesn't detract from his basic ability, as much as it might cast doubts over his achievements.

I certainly can't think of a better all-round competitor than Loeb. Sainz probably comes closest in terms of having been quick and consistent on all surfaces and in all conditions. Kankkunen was rubbish on tarmac. Rohrl rarely competed on events he didn't like in the most successful part of his career, so it's hard to measure his absolute ability as an all-rounder. The likes of Alen, Blomqvist, Salonen and Mikkola were, it's often forgotten, fast on tarmac as well as gravel. Toivonen was surely on the cusp of absolute greatness when he was killed. And Colin McRae shouldn't be forgotten, for he showed his pace in all conditions.

Comparisons are very difficult because of the changing nature of world rallying and the requirements of drivers in different eras, but I don't think that classing Loeb as the best of all time requires too great a leap of imagination. I would just like to see him being challenged more, by the events and other drivers.

[AndyRAC]

The key question is whether he would have been such a force in days gone by. I think all the evidence suggests that he would. Can anyone imagine someone of Loeb's style and ability not having been able to win a five-day RAC or the Safari in the Group B era? I can't. The recent lack of opposition he's faced doesn't detract from his basic ability, as much as it might cast doubts over his achievements.

I certainly can't think of a better all-round competitor than Loeb. Sainz probably comes closest in terms of having been quick and consistent on all surfaces and in all conditions. Kankkunen was rubbish on tarmac. Rohrl rarely competed on events he didn't like in the most successful part of his career, so it's hard to measure his absolute ability as an all-rounder. The likes of Alen, Blomqvist, Salonen and Mikkola were, it's often forgotten, fast on tarmac as well as gravel. Toivonen was surely on the cusp of absolute greatness when he was killed. And Colin McRae shouldn't be forgotten, for he showed his pace in all conditions.

Comparisons are very difficult because of the changing nature of world rallying and the requirements of drivers in different eras, but I don't think that classing Loeb as the best of all time requires too great a leap of imagination. I would just like to see him being challenged more, by the events and other drivers.

I quite agree, that's a good assessment.
Also add in his Le Mans performances, his F1 Test last year - and this proves he's quick and adaptable to different circumstances - so there is every chance he'd have been a success.
It would be nice for him to do a Rossi/Schumacher - go to another team and turn them into winners. Come Subaru/Suzuki - make him an offer he can't refuse..

[sal]

A certain Mr Rohrl proved himself no mean slouch behind the wheel of a saloon and sportscar so the precident has been set and he proved he could win rallys in rwd,4wd, supercharged, turbo charged and normally aspirated cars.

I think the one thing Loeb will never be able to prove (and it's the changed format of the World Championship and not his fault,) is that he would have been able to have achieved such dominance of the sport when it's very nature dictated a balance between outright speed and the need to nurse a car with limited or road side servicing over 5 days. Also some of the events not having notes and changing their routes year on year (not the same "tracks" every time) would have challenged him more.

I maintain if you are going on stats then he is the best and the man can drive which I'm sure he will prove in other formulas should the desire still exist but the greatest ever...?

[cut the b.s.]

Not at all. If you do not agree with polls such as this then the only logical vote is a NO vote.

Unquestionably Loeb is the best of the current crop. And his achievements, statistically, are unequalled. He is therefore the most successful driver of all time.

But the "greatest"? That's another story altogether.

Check the meaning of 'logical', to answer a different question to the one being asked is definitely not logical.
I'd be interested to see this poll with the 3rd option I mentioned earlier.

[Torsen]

all of yall that say he's not need to put down the bottle or the blunt :-P

[sollitt]

Check the meaning of 'logical', to answer a different question to the one being asked is definitely not logical.

Nonsense.

The question is "do you think Loeb is the greatest driver of all time?"

If one believes that this cannot be defined, because of the number of factors already raised here, then the answer to the question is 'no'.
It's not a "different question" at all. It's a sound answer to the question that was asked.

What you're suggesting is that we ask "if you are of the belief that we can compare WRC drivers of different era, do you think Loeb is the greatest driver of all time?"

That's ... a different question.

[J4MIE]

If this.....if that...... doesn't matter really. I'm 100% sure he could have won in 1976, 1986, 1996 as well as 2006.

[MrJan]

Is he alone in being the greatest? I'm not so sure. Is he at the same level as any other driver you would consider? No doubt.

This is a bloke who tanked McRae and Sainz in their twilight years and has consistently been better than his closest rivals. I mean I seriously rate Marcus but reckon that even if him and Loeb were in equal cars then Seb would win more than he lost.

As has been said it's always difficult to compare eras, especially when the current crop of drivers isn't exactly a hot bed of legends (compared to the mid '90s when we saw Didier, Carlos, Colin, RB, Tommi, KKK, etc. etc. Also the sport is different now, back in the days of Clark and Timo events were much tougher and longer so the talent was in getting the car to the end as much as it was being quickest.

Ultimately my vote is yes, purely because I just couldn't bring myself to vote no. Seb is obviously an amazing talent (surely no one can dispute that) has been wiping the floor with his oppo. Could he do it against Vatenen or Timo? I don't know, but I reckon it'd be f***ing good fun to watch it

[BDunnell]

A certain Mr Rohrl proved himself no mean slouch behind the wheel of a saloon and sportscar so the precident has been set and he proved he could win rallys in rwd,4wd, supercharged, turbo charged and normally aspirated cars.

He did, but would he ever have come to grips with those events he didn't like had he been obliged to compete in them all? This is as much of a 'what if?' as anything to do with Loeb and his record.

And, as I hinted earlier, it wasn't as if Röhrl was unique in his achievements. I think Stig Blomqvist is overlooked in this context. He won rallies in cars of numerous different configurations (and let's not forget how incredible he was in the F2 Skoda Felicia, just over a decade ago!), and on all surfaces. His performances in the Quattro on the Circuit of Ireland and Ulster rallies in the 1983 British championship were outstanding, albeit hampered by a temperamental car. Didn't stop him beating Bertie Fisher's Manta after a great battle in Ulster, though, and thereby taking the Quattro's first international tarmac rally win. I say this for no other reasons than interest, and to prove that Röhrl wasn't the only great all-rounder of his era, let alone others.

I think the one thing Loeb will never be able to prove (and it's the changed format of the World Championship and not his fault,) is that he would have been able to have achieved such dominance of the sport when it's very nature dictated a balance between outright speed and the need to nurse a car with limited or road side servicing over 5 days. Also some of the events not having notes and changing their routes year on year (not the same "tracks" every time) would have challenged him more.

All very true, and while I have spoken up for Loeb here, we do know that the drivers of past eras also got a fair amount of experience of short 'sprint' events, often through competing in various national championships. But while I doubt the ability of some drivers of recent years to have been able to dictate the balances you rightly mention, somehow I don't think this of Loeb.