What Happens Next?

[garyshell]

In the years before Jovy's accident, On Track ran a couple articles a year on race track safety, in which Indy was always prominently featured and they described what is now known as the Safer Barrier, because John Fitch had already worked it out.

My memory is a bit fuzzy here, but at that particular time wasn't there still an issue with the one Fitch had, where the car's wheel could become instantly lodged in the barrier, whipping the car around with rather violent consequences? I know early versions had this, I am just not sure if this was during the time period in question or not.

If somebody gets rubbed-out from time to time, it makes it more of a spectacle.

More of a spectacle to whom? Who are you trying to smear with this comment? Regardless of who it is, it's unacceptable. No one, I repeat, NO ONE in the sport is ever willing to accept someone's death in such a shallow and callous fashion as you are attempting to portray.

I reached my fill. I recognize many haven't. Yet. It took me two years to get my stomach for it back after '73.

Isn't that logic just a bit flawed? In the first three sentences, you take to task folks who, in your eyes, didn't "reach their fill" and then in the last sentence say it only took you two years to get over it. So how, 35 years later (yep, look at the calendar), can you possibly tell the difference in those who NEVER reached their fill, as you claim, from those who got over it in rather short order, like you did??

Gary

[Miatanut]

My memory is a bit fuzzy here, but at that particular time wasn't there still an issue with the one Fitch had, where the car's wheel could become instantly lodged in the barrier, whipping the car around with rather violent consequences? I know early versions had this, I am just not sure if this was during the time period in question or not.



More of a spectacle to whom? Who are you trying to smear with this comment? Regardless of who it is, it's unacceptable. No one, I repeat, NO ONE in the sport is ever willing to accept someone's death in such a shallow and callous fashion as you are attempting to portray.



Isn't that logic just a bit flawed? In the first three sentences, you take to task folks who, in your eyes, didn't "reach their fill" and then in the last sentence say it only took you two years to get over it. So how, 35 years later (yep, look at the calendar), can you possibly tell the difference in those who NEVER reached their fill, as you claim, from those who got over it in rather short order, like you did??

Gary

My timeline:
1970: First Indy I saw.
1973: The disaster known as Indy 1973.
1974: 'Thanks, but no thanks'
1975: 'Thanks, but no thanks'
1976: 'Guess I'll give it another try'
Late 1980's, early 1990's: Auto racing safety articles, including engineering calculations, make regular appearances in On Track and Autoweek, both of which I subscribed to. The obvious problems of the concrete outer walls on the square oval known as IMS are a frequent topic of discussion, and largely similar solutions are proposed.
1992: Former Atlantic RotY and Atlantic Champ Jovy Marcelo killed following a hard impact with the wall at Indy. I'm appalled by Tony's quotes in print and decide I'm done with Indy forever.
Present: Haven't seen any event at Indy since 1991, and I don't care to.

Fitch criticized the initial Safer installation at IMS as one which could hook a car. I'm not convinced. Although I think he has been a great automotive safety engineer, I think this was really more about professional jealousy because they didn't use his proposal years earlier, than a real defect in the design.

In my opinion, the IMS management's practice of being behind the curve on safety, which I first noticed in the early 1970's continues to be expressed in designs like the hard gearbox end, which they then put a carbon fiber pimple on to try to provide some impact absorbtion, the cars which fly too easily, and drivers who should not be out there driving in the field. Another example is if you have some old CCWS race ads and IRL race ads. You will see the CCWS ads talk about the battle of man and machine, the gutsy drivers, etc., and many have no crash images or footage in them, and the others have very little. Then watch IRL ads from the same period, where crashes feature quite prominently in the ad. In 40 years, they haven't changed. This kind of stuff is exactly why I, and many others, have been so passionate in our opposition to IMS management's attempt to, and subsequent success at gaining control of the sport.

They are the wrong people for the job.

[indycool]

Just what did Tony say in print that ticks you off so much? I can't recall him saying anything inflammatory in any way from that accident.

As for your assertions about safety, and everything that IMS and the IRL have done in that regard and the ONGOING efforts, they're still baloney as I said before. I don't know why Fitch's design wasn't used but I DO know that no one would turn it down because they wanted more crashes and injuries.

[Miatanut]

Just what did Tony say in print that ticks you off so much? I can't recall him saying anything inflammatory in any way from that accident.

As for your assertions about safety, and everything that IMS and the IRL have done in that regard and the ONGOING efforts, they're still baloney as I said before. I don't know why Fitch's design wasn't used but I DO know that no one would turn it down because they wanted more crashes and injuries.

It was 16 years ago. I don't remember it precisely. In general, it was that the former Atlantic RotY and Atlantic champ didn't know what he was doing. That was followed up by some comment to the effect that Indy had killed much greater drivers. Obviously he couldn't admit they should have implemented the proposals by Fitch and others, because that would have blown the door wide open for a lawsuit from Jovy's family, but he could have been a bit less obnoxious. That combined with the fact he hadn't implemented any sort of energy absorbtion system ticked me off.

[indycool]

Well, PRECISELY is what my question demands when you make such accusations and I almost certainly would remember if he said anything like you picture. Everyone would.

And PRECISELY what was Fitch's plan? For example, you said the excuse was that it would decrease the width of the track. Do you think that taking room to drive away would be safer? What amount of deceleration would take place with Fitch's plan? The current SAFER barriers were studied by safety experts and physicists and crash tests were done at the University of Nebraska for a couple years before the first generation was installed and the current version supposedly takes away about 30-35 percent of the energy. Prior to the SAFER barrier, IMS tried a "styrofoam" type substance that Luyendyk scattered all over the race track with an IROC car.

The HANS device was developed by experts from the University of Michigan and Jim Downing. It was tested and checked and is now mandatory by some sanctioning bodies.

You have made serious accusations but provided absolutely no details. The effect is an inappropriate smear campaign. Take it to CW.

[Miatanut]

Sorry, you're going to have to do better than that to get me to spend hours looking for details which you can then blow-off. I don't have the passion for American open wheel any more. Tony killed it for me.

[indycool]

Big allegations. Great copout. I find your comments exceedingly questionable because nobody else here seems to remember them, and they're so egregious that I feel certain if the comments were made, they'd be remembered.

[Rex Monaco]

The HANS device...was tested and checked and is now mandatory by some sanctioning bodies.

I'm almost certain that CART mandated the Han's device (and wheel tethers) before the IRL did.

[indycool]

Half right, I believe, Rex. IRL mandated the wheel tethers first, CART did the HANS first. I could be wrong.

[garyshell]

I'm almost certain that CART mandated the Han's device (and wheel tethers) before the IRL did.

I believe that is correct, but didn't the IRL use the other device (the name escapes me) at that time and then latter drop it for the HANS? Or am I mixing that up with another series??? I know there were two "competing" devices at the time. I just don't remember which series was on what horse.

Gary