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5th January 2008, 23:56 #121
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Thanks for that impressive insight into the technicalities of the engine world !
If your memory serves you right the curve and drivability of a S2000R car is not that bad, with 2500-3000 rpm of ok HP and Torque.
Of course this will improve with 500 ccm more, but then we are talking a different ballgame. Not being able to crossuse btw WTCC type cars and rally cars. We are for the S2500 over to a V6 engine most likely, that few manufacturers have in stock.
I think the best way ahead is to go ahead and say that S2000 is the basis for the new WRC car, and if we need it to have a turbo, then let that car decide drivetrain ++ so it is dimensioned to take the power.
But I could also live with that S2000 NA will be top of the pops in the future.
Engineers are a strange breed, they can move limits - also for a 2 ltr NA engine !
In some years new ways of pushing our cars will be here anyway, be it Hydrogen cell, E-85 or something else !!
PS.
Would love to see a special class for McRae R4 type of spaceframe cars, also in Int rally, the sound must be beautiful !!
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6th January 2008, 00:33 #122
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Sulland: There is no big problem to make 320+ Hp from just 2 litre n/a engine but the car would cost like WRC and we would move nowhere...
Stupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump
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6th January 2008, 13:19 #123
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Originally Posted by OldF
Thats why i said minimum 168.000.it is twice as expensive as a evo or impreza and it is not that faster.but i think that the s2000 cars have potential
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6th January 2008, 17:44 #124
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who builds peugoet 207 s2000's, and what is the price to buy?
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6th January 2008, 19:59 #125
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Peugeot Sport Price info here : http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...&postcount=503
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7th January 2008, 13:11 #126
It crossed my mind that there is also a mechanical supercharger (Roots compressor) that could be used instead of a turbo. The Lancia 037 (http://www.lanciarally037.com/e-homepage.htm) used one and the EVO II engine produced 310-325 hp at 8000 rpm and about 340 Nm at 5000 rpm. In the “technical analysis” they said that last evolution of the 037 produced 350 hp. Nowadays I think the same engine would give more power. With a supercharger you can get more power and torque without loosing the nice sound and high revs of an NA engine.
Originally Posted by 'Mirek Fric [Cze“Don’t eat the yellow snow” Frank Zappa
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7th January 2008, 16:03 #127
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OldF: I ment it quite a different way... You know, S2000 cars are much limited in the rulles in engine upgrades from pruction. They could have more both power and torque (not so much) but for much higher cost.
About compressor, I think that small turbo is better since the best mechanical compressor effectiveness is usualy in lower rpm. Turbo effectiveness depends (besides other) on it's dimensions. Also turbo is simpler. And group B cars are not the way to go, I thinkStupid is as stupid does. Forrest Gump
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7th January 2008, 18:16 #128
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Trouble with turbo in grp n ,they are cheap and produce enough torque overcome the exesive weight that has been imposed with the current crash protection however the stronger transmission componants to take the high levels of torgue has only compounded this, the result is an overweight almost silent car that is so boring to watch .
the fact that an evo 9 weighs more than the old galant at the end of the 80,s means the Grp N cars have got so overweight ( to the tune of 150kg)
That is not exactly progress
In W.R.C i have heard figures of 2.5 bar boost with a compression ratio of over 12 to1, the cost of the Turbo alone is over twice the cost of a 2.5 Millington engine never mind the Engine and F1 tech ECU to keep it together
I cannot see how a Super 2000 type car with sensible restrictions from the start could even come close to the cost of a world carwho dares wins or rolls it
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7th January 2008, 18:25 #129
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Originally Posted by flat out fredRule 1 of the forum, always accuse anyone who disagrees with you of bias.I would say that though.
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1st February 2008, 14:02 #130
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Then it is confirmed by FIA that the future of the WRC car will be based on either S2000 or Gr N from 2009. Read that in Autosport last week.
The only one of the WRC teams that does not have a base car from 09 onwards is Ford - So what route will they choose - Gr N or S2000 ?
Rumours also has it that Proton is using the British team MEM to build a S2000 rally car for them, not saying if there is a plan to do WRC as well. But good news anyway !
Almost all Finn's since Paavo Nurmi who are fast in their sport have been called "Flying", particularly the 1960's rally drivers, but I was actually thinking of "Flying Finnish" - the timing line at...
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