Spy Case Thread *merged*

[wmcot]

McLaren got the famous Ferrari papers on March-April, when the 2007 car was finished, so I think they can't developed a new car when the season was started.

No, but there would probably be quite enough data to help them setup their chassis to get the optimum from the Bridgestones. They don't have to design their whole car to benefit, just use a little bit of the info here and there.

[Valve Bounce]

It's incredible how the rumours and counter rumours, executions, guilty finds, punishments, exclusions and bans are flying around like bats in the night - all blind.
The hearing is tomorrow, so guys, better make hay while the moon shines. After that, the hearing will come out with evidence and all the theories will be obsolete.

Go Elvis!!!

[Blackburn Buccaneer]

this spygate stuff really really stinks. this stuff is starting to resemble the tribal warfare going on in iraq and elsewhere. imagine, finally i have some time to devote to this sport, then blam. last year i was too involved with the hospital. this year was the first time in decades that i've had the time for f1 and, it seems that all change has been for the worst. f1 needs to bring in new management: starting at the top! hell, i didn't even know jack about hamilton, until the first race. then i became excited because i felt, here was a chance to see something at the beginning. if this event dosen't shake out right, publicly presented, clear evidence of either guilty->PUNISHMENT,

[Blackburn Buccaneer]

this spygate stuff really really stinks. this stuff is starting to resemble the blood-letting going on in iraq and elsewhere. imagine, finally i have some time to devote to this sport, then blam. last year i was too involved with the hospital. this year was the first time in decades that i've had the time for f1 and, it seems that all change has been for the worst. f1 needs to bring in new management: starting at the top! hell, i didn't even know jack about hamilton, until the first race. then i became excited because i felt, here was a chance to see something at the beginning. if this event dosen't shake out right, publicly presented, clear evidence of either guilty->punishment, not guilty->exonoration, publicly, then adios f1, i won't be missing you.

[leopard]

This maybe also an evidence that I see no significant difference

[leopard]

No, but there would probably be quite enough data to help them setup their chassis to get the optimum from the Bridgestones. They don't have to design their whole car to benefit, just use a little bit of the info here and there.

All thing were already right optimum during pre season tests and beginning races of this season. They may use it a little bit there at the Ferrari but not here at McLaren

[wmcot]

It's incredible how the rumours and counter rumours, executions, guilty finds, punishments, exclusions and bans are flying around like bats in the night - all blind.

I quite like your bat analogy, but probably not in the way you meant it. Bats don't need their eyes to see their prey at night. They can sense it far more accurately than vision will allow. In a similar sense, I think that most of us know that things go on beneath the surface in F1 at all times without actually seeing them. This case is just too big to keep under cover by the F1 establishment. It allows us to get a glimpse of what goes on outside of racing and it captures our interest.

I don't know what will happen after the FIA council, but I hope it is fair, just, swift, and final - like a bat after a moth. Then we can all go back to racing - hopefully in a sport that will be a little more honest and open.

[markabilly]

Is it really honest racing or is it all about sponsors, money and entertainment.

nothing in most forms of entertainment is real or true....although I know some children who would disagree on Harry Potter....stuff about sponsors is really funny because sponsors love publicity but they do not care to have their name on a car that is perceived as a "cheater"...but as in American football has been discovered that as long as you win, the sponsors still come--cheating or not, dog fighting or not, steroids or not, and so it will be with F1, regardless of how many "pure fans" feel about it

Funny is how supporters of the brit to be WDC and his team are so willing to claim witch hunt and jump to the defense of stealing with immunity...aand it proves the above points (as long as your champion wins...so what...it is just a witch hunt...)

Seems the kool aid effect can be healthy to aid in selective forgetting and forgiving.....

[ArrowsFA1]

My assumptions are based on the fact that I am not naive (as it appears you must be to be a McLaren fan.)

And as a fan of F1 my assumptions are based on the lack of evidence to back up many of the accusations being made in this case.

Some point to McLaren's improved performance this season compared to last and strongly suggest that this is down to the 780-page document. How about looking at the changes within Ferrari to explain why they have slipped behind? They haven't won a championship for two, almost three, years after a period of dominance. That happens in F1.

They have also lost key people who contributed to their success, and as a result their team structure has changed. Inevitably this has had an impact on performance and reliability.

As George Harrison once sang:

It's easier to criticize somebody else
Than to see yourself.

If Coughlan had that much integrity, he would have immediately turned the documents over to the proper authorities or, at least, destroyed them to protect his friend, NS.

Why? If he was planning to move to another team (Honda) with Stepney, using details of Ferrari's structure and procedures to suggest ways Honda could improve with their combined help, knowledge and experience having been at winning teams? Why hand the information over, or destroy it in those circumstances?

[Hondo]

Quite frankly, the constant whining of Ferrari and Todt has become tiresome. It would seem that their interpretation of all this "evidence" has produced something of a tunnel vision induced truth and any verdict that differs from their idea of the truth is wrong or the result of favoritism. In reality it seems that the evidence they are offering isn't strong enough for anyone else to arrive at Ferrari's truth as the only reasonable explaination. It also appears that none of the evidence given to the courts or police has been strong enough to issue immediate arrest warrants.

It's time for Ferrari to put on their big boy knickers and either absolutely prove their case beyond all reasonable doubt or shut up and figure out how to make their cars faster.