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Thread: Should Vettel be banned?
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4th July 2017, 22:55 #111
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I am surprised you are still litigating the facts of the incident. All in a futile effort to deflect any kind of culpability to Vettel's action.
Why are you trying so hard to convince yourself hamilton did something wrong.
Can it not be for this one time, be accepted and understood that he did nothing wrong and vettel simply made a mistake and then matters even worse?
I'm really trying hard to understand what you have to gain by finding some way, any kind of way, to apportion blame to Hamilton.
...Big Ben said it best, as i'm a bit tired of having to explain the incident over again.
there, that simpleyou can't argue with results.
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5th July 2017, 00:47 #112
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Originally Posted by Baggy
As the leading car he dictates the pace. So yes his roll was pretty clear, Vettel is at a decided disadvantage for not being in the lead. The Boss did not brake check him. Vettel should not assume what speed the leader is going to maintain right before the start. He hit Hamilton because he was too close to him. A minor infraction worth a drive through penalty. They ensuing road rage deserved a black flag!May the forza be with you
- Likes: mr_swiss (5th July 2017),truefan72 (5th July 2017)
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5th July 2017, 08:22 #113
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Not every situation always has two people to blame, Bagwan. This is clear cut and dry as scenarios come. There was zero fault on behalf of Hamilton. Your post is bordering on being ridiculous and desperate.
There is firstly no evidence to suggest Hamilton knew Vettel was closer. And even if he did, there is still no reason as to why he should have approached that safety car restart any different than the previous. You can't let another driver dictate your actions and preparation for a restart just because they are closer than the previous time, especially when you have the right of way to begin with. It is and always has been, in that situation, the responsibility of the following driver to look after themselves, not the car in front. To lay any blame on Hamilton for this is not alone ridiculously stupid but very much delusional.
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5th July 2017, 08:44 #114
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My honest impression about this whole debate now:
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5th July 2017, 10:25 #115
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That's highly debateable too. The BBC's Rob Hayles saw no malicious intent on the part of Sagan and reckons the commissaires over-reacted. In the head-on slo-mo it does look like Cavendish has hit the hip or thigh of Sagan and is already on the way to the scene of the accident before the elbow comes out. It was Sagan's move that caused it but he was trying to find room for himself, not to take Cavendish out. The guy in front of Sagan switches from right to left so Sagan switches from left to right, squeezing Cavendish who's already coming up on Sagan's right into the barrier.
It's more like the Kimi/Bottas collision or various other racing collisions we've seen, than it is like Vettel's shenanigans under safety car conditions. For both Vettel and Sagan I think the officials have issued unjust penalties: one too lenient, one too harsh. In both cases they're vilified for it. Who'd want that job?
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5th July 2017, 11:01 #116
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5th July 2017, 11:37 #117
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I've told you cats that I think Seb should have been black flagged .
I've told you that Lewis was not obligated to do it any differently .
But , he did drop that speed at the exit of that corner , catching out his opponent badly , so all and sundry should not be saying he wasn't involved at all .
I'd like to point out that this line of conversation began with my response to Mia , who insinuated Lewis was partly responsible .
I'd also point out that I didn't use the words "delusional , ridiculous , desperate , or stupid" in my response .
I did concede , though , that Lewis slowing significantly started the sequence .
- Likes: Mia 01 (6th July 2017)
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5th July 2017, 15:09 #118
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Mia tends to come in a drop a bombshell very now and then just for the fun of it. Just because she did doesn't mean you have to agree with her.
First you said "It's just not the normal place to be slowing down on a track " and actually it is before the restart of a safety car.
Second you said "But , his role was pretty clear ." This tends to lead one to the conclusion that you actually lay some blame upon Hamilton, even after he has been absorbed of all blame and was as blameless as anyone possibly can be in any incident.
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5th July 2017, 19:45 #119
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First , I'm sure you meant "absolved" , rather than "absorbed" .
Now , dropping 30kph in short order when exiting the corner prompted Vettel into thinking it was a brake check , so , though the brakes weren't touched , and the traces said he acted the same way he had the first time , that , in itself is significant .
Now , as you mentioned , have no way of telling whether Hamilton knew if he was as close as he was .
But , here's where Lewis had the choice of whether to slow right there or not .
It was clearly a good tactic to time his arrival at the safety car line as the car went off track , so no complaint there .
And , it's a good tactic , slowing down the pack behind , so that you may dictate when you go , so , no complaint there either .
But , if he was aware the Sebastian was there , he ought to see dropping 30 kph was putting his own ride in danger .
And that's the only blame I think you can attach to Hamilton here .
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6th July 2017, 09:34 #120
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I admit Seb was in the wrong steering in to Lewis, the red mist was blinding him. But it was Lewis who started the incident. Just because you canīt throw the rulebook on him dosenīt mean he was not in the wrong. Lewis did this one wery nice.
- Likes: Bagwan (6th July 2017),BleAivano (7th July 2017)
A nice analysis from the rally: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-learned-from-rally-italy-sardinia-2024/
[WRC] Rally Italia Sardegna 2024