Hybrid World Rally Cars

[itix]

Didn't the Netherlands just started using new coal plants to make electricity? I lately read some article that claimed electric cars to be at least as polluting as a petrol car (for example they compared a Tesla with Volvo V60). And that's just the driving part. Apparently the production of a electric car pollutes around twice as much as the production of an average petrol car. If you know that the production of an average new car pollutes as much as 14 tonne CO2 (more for the bigger cars), and let's say average emission for a new petrol car is 125g/km. Then theoretically you drive 112 000km before you polluted as much by driving as by the manufacturing of the car. I know many people buy a new car earlier than they reach that amount of kms, and many governments are supporting it by their tax rules. So actually the governments are only supporting the economy, wile making the environmentalists believe it's a good thing they do... IF governments want to do something for the environment, they would tackle the industry (not just car industry, all industry), but that would only work in a good way if the same rules are being applied all over the world at the same time, and it's not going to happen.

You are not wrong... Power needs to come from other sources than coal before it has any environmental impact.

All those muppets who write zero emissions on their cars are of course right for their specific little cluster but the emissions still happen somewhere... Just not where they are.

Nuclear would be the obvious solution if people stopped being so stupid and scared of it and we were allowed to do some serious R&D on reactors and fuel management...

[itix]

...but we are yet again going off topic... And I'm partly responsible.

Shame on me. Back to the main subject again, hybrid rally cars.

[Franky]

...but we are yet again going off topic... And I'm partly responsible.

Shame on me. Back to the main subject again, hybrid rally cars.

No need to apologize. It is interesting to follow the discussion.

[AL14]

I really didn't get this paragraph...about the rest, it's sounds totally demagogic to bring the killing of innocent people into this discussion. Are we also going to blame Colombo and start missing the way of life of our prehistorical ancestries?

For sure the emissions problem should be solved in less hypocritical ways, but the real issue is finding that those ways aren't suitable to our way of life.

Restricting traffic, limiting flying, expanding products life cycles, etc, it all seems reasonable on paper, but then we would have less revenues to lots of business (the big corps but also the small and medium companies), more unemployment, more social unrest, etc.

Finding a way to keep the global balance, using the tech at our disposal, it's logic, not hypocrisy.

Yes sorry. That paragraph about overshooting day is about developed countries reaching overshooting day at the beginning of the year.
The overshooting day is the day when the humans use the resources that the earth is capable to reproduce in one year. So if you reach it before the 31th of december there's something wrong with you.
And all those countries you mentioned, that are making so much efforts towards sustainable growth reach it at the beginning of the year.

You think I'm demagogic...It's ok, it's your opinion. But you said that "Restricting traffic, limiting flying, expanding products life cycles, etc, it all seems reasonable on paper, but then we would have less revenues to lots of business (the big corps but also the small and medium companies), more unemployment, more social unrest, etc."

Let alone the fact that producing more does not mean more employment most of the time (see automatic producing), but I just answer you with this:
demagogic or not, one thing is certain: The nature does not care a damn about our businesses.

[AL14]

...but we are yet again going off topic... And I'm partly responsible.

Shame on me. Back to the main subject again, hybrid rally cars.

I was feeling guilty too but it's a nice discussion.

[stefanvv]

Seriously, people don't understand electricity. Nothing personal at all... I don't expect you to but this isn't worse than a regular 12v battery transformed to thousands of volts at the ignition coil.

I don't take it, I just write what have taught me at school. If I was experienced it myself, probably I wouldn't be able to write with the keyboard right now. You are right about the path current goes, this with least resistance, our contradiction seems to be in which has more.

[Jack4688`]

And if we'd leave aside safety and the very valid points abut ecology you've brought up in the discussion, then the technology is still far too expensive. Do we really need even more expensive car?

...and I don't believe WRC is the sport to drive down the cost and make the technology more readily available and more efficient at its purpose through competition by the manufacturers. I think WEC is doing it right by allowing different concepts. Maybe the hybridisation of rally cars will have to wait quite a few more years

[itix]

I don't take it, I just write what have taught me at school. If I was experienced it myself, probably I wouldn't be able to write with the keyboard right now. You are right about the path current goes, this with least resistance, our contradiction seems to be in which has more.

If the car was powered off the grid and electricity had to return through earth, I would agree with you.

It doesn't however. It needs to go between one pole to the other.

The path of less resistance is through the water should there be a path between them somewhere, that I can assure you... I can guarantee that it won't go battery pole (or anywhere connecting to the battery pole like cables, terminals, junctions, control unit, MGU) to water, to body shell, to helping hand one, through heart, to helping hand two, back to the body shell, to water to the other pole. I am sure you realise this yourself.

If the current can go from positive to negative, it will go pole, to water, to pole. Maybe also pole to water to body shell to pole of it has to go far. The body shell and the water are so wide conductors that the potential between any given point on or in them is maximum a couple of micro volt.

You can touch both sides of a 24v battery without a problem, so I am sure you'll be fine with a couple of micro volt too (if there even will be any potential at all).

You'd literally have to hold both sides of the battery pack to get any current running through you and for that you'd have to get inside the car, probably undo a lot of protective equipment, take one pole in one hand and one in the other... First then you'll die...

If for some reason the rally car would crash in a Manor that the battery pack gets dislodged from the car, half of it gets buried and the protective cover is destroyed and you try to lift it in the other terminal, THEN you'd be fried... But that's about it. I seriously can't think of any realistic situation where the current would pass you, helpful rally enthusiast, trying to get the rally car back on the road.

[Rally Power]

You think I'm demagogic...It's ok, it's your opinion.(...)
demagogic or not, one thing is certain: The nature does not care a damn about our businesses.

You're wrong mate. I don't think you're demagogic. I see you defending your views in a fair way, with the exception of that particular "innocent killings" argument, that was demagogic because unappropriated for the debate.

Somehow this discussion has became a sort of "wishful thinking" vs "reality check" on environmental politics. I share all your concerns about the future of the planet but I've lived long enough to know that changes in human societies usually don't came in a fast way. They're made of small but significant steps, like those that we're taken in Paris, even if they don't ever seem enough.

PS: Thanks for the overshooting day explanation!

[AL14]

I've lived long enough to know that changes in human societies usually don't came in a fast way.

I'm 30 but they are enough to agree with you on this. Unfortunately. In fact I'm pretty convinced we will be forced to change fast and it will not be funny.
Just let's hope rally sport will survive it.