Should the WRC take things back to basics?

[Sulland]

On the tech side i agree with the ones saying that it can not be much more simple than the current formula is.
Next level down is to make R5 the next WRCar, and the new R4 class as the layer 2 car.

So lets think outside the box to improve the current show:

The average joe always look for possibilities for surprise winners, that is never happening anymore. The difference btw a privat WRCar and a Works WRCar is too big.

Maybe they need to go for a system where manufacturers can go the VW way.
Team A: 2 X works cars
Team B: 2 X works cars (own championship?) Could be last years models, or a Jr driver.

All other will have to drive a WRC2 if they are to drive 4WD, but only R5s no RRC.
Aim is to get large WRC2 fields, and more status and competition here.
Can also be the way in for new manufacturers in WRC.

[tommeke_B]

So if I understand it right, Sulland, no privateers with WRC cars anymore? Any other ideas to keep the crowds away? Being a rally enthousiast I'm sure you've been in Sweden. Would you have preferred to see Kubica, Protasov, Prokop in an R5 then? A WRC car is simply more impressive, especially for the "average" WRC spectators. The WRC promotor should do more for privateers in my opinion, they do make a difference.

[OldF]

Rallying used to be about driver skill controlling the machine, but now with fancy computers in the cars, it is more like the car is controlling the driver

2006: Active front and rear differentials and water injection banned.
2008: Mousse tyres banned.
2011: No central differential.

What I would like to see about the cars is to have the weight distribution in more the way that they have use more the Scandinavian / Nordic flick.

Back in the 80s the only way you could watch WRC was up close, maybe some tv shows every now and then and then from VHS and books... and that was also the reason why you considered the drivers and carsof that era that good... the limited amount of information lead you to glorify them.

I partly agree with this. In the past it was not obvious to have a daily highlight if even a summary of a rally, you watched everything that was showed on TV and you were happy with that. This doesn’t mean that I’m happy with highlights I’ve seen recently. When my rally interest part I (part II started about 1984-1985) started in 1965 it was mostly pictures in magazines and know and then in newspapers. The sport journalists didn’t even recognized rallying (or any motorsports) as a sport and I think that’s still going on for some of them.

A surprise for me was that this year rally Sweden had every day about one page in the sport news in the Finnish biggest newspaper (Helsingin Sanomat). Let’s hope that will continue but I doubt that.

When you watch the old ISC highlights from the early 2000s now they seem to have a much better flow to them, a better way of telling the story of the rally. Red Bull's highlights are a mixture of repeating what we've already seen, a few shots from the stages, a crash, plenty of Super Slow-Mo's, a bit of dubstep, a teaser for a crash that's coming up after a break, then after the break all that repeated again. There's too much fluff and too much stop/start, interrupting the 'story' of the event

I didn’t subscribe for WRC last year because the broadcaster changed and it was not possible to subscribe for just WRC. But what I’ve seen nowadays the highlights are very “nervous”. Few seconds of onboard, the drivers face, road side camera, interview etc. It’s a mess. All this could be included in the highlights but not in 30 minutes.

One thing I’m missing from onboards on gravel is the sound of gravel rattling under the car.

Stig Blomqvist - 1000 Lakes Rally 1988 - SS 1 Laajavuori – INCAR (gravel sound)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYMZOu0AQA

The next one is especially for Jan van Vurppa.

Saab 96 V4 Rally - Ex Works Leo Kinnunen (incar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yAwcLamQQc

And about the characters.

WRC Rally Finland '99 Juha Kankkunen Subaru Impreza (Onboard cam)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKRQBwWdDYk

Marcus Gronholm's Funniest Moments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_0PoLbZro

Petter Solberg's Funniest Moments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScfyvIUj6GU

Next one is not WRC but IMO funny.

The Secret of Flying Finns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62AbA1h6PY4

Engine - ECU needs software. Yes, it's been like that with every combustion engine for decades now. Possibly the only special thing about WRC ECU is anti-lag. In the past the 2.0 cars had fancy things like water injection or intercooler water spray but that's all gone for simplification.

- from cost point of view it doesn't matter how much You simplify the cars (for manufacturers at least)

Isn’t launch control still in use?

[EightGear]

What sport are they active in?

Le Mans/WEC.

[tommeke_B]

Le Mans/WEC.

Aha, yeah, great, never heard of it... Endurance racing is probably the most unpopular form of autosport in Belgian media (and any circuit racing in general, apart from F1). Le Mans may have one article after the event (only LE Mans, not the other events) while WRC has some article every day of the event here last couple of years. What makes it to the newspapers is very different from country to country I think, it's not right to say WRC doesn't get any media attention.

[AndyRAC]

What sport are they active in?

Sportscars; GT3; won the recent Bathurst 12 hours, and with formers 'gamers' as their drivers. LMP1 with a mainly FWD car. They ran a 60 sec advert during the SuperBowl, which featured their GT-R LMP1 car.

[Sulland]

So if I understand it right, Sulland, no privateers with WRC cars anymore? Any other ideas to keep the crowds away? Being a rally enthousiast I'm sure you've been in Sweden. Would you have preferred to see Kubica, Protasov, Prokop in an R5 then? A WRC car is simply more impressive, especially for the "average" WRC spectators. The WRC promotor should do more for privateers in my opinion, they do make a difference.

I fully agree, and that has been tried the last years, but with little success.
But very few can get a budget to run a car for a full season, or have a car purely for WRC, and have another one for the national championship. And running your local rally, is for most drivers also getting to expensive. Its all about the money these days!

Maybe if FIA can get a sponsor to offer good pricemoney to private drivers, the number will rise!

[Munkvy]

One thing occurred to me, what about a privateer championship? Not many of them around that do the whole series, but quite a few that do several rounds? And it would add another element of competition, which is arguably fairer on them? Might even entice some who do WRC2/3/Production cup to step up another level, to a series that has fairer competition?

What if there was say a 6 round series for privateers, specific rounds and a little bit of media, ie top 3 actually get mentioned in the highlights package? Easier to sell to privateers and might encourage a little bit more participation? Wouldn't really cost the promoters anything? Would help possibly with increasing numbers and give them an outlet for driving at their level of ability etc. As NOT would say, a ladyboy cup especially for them. As you aren't going to get more cars out in the WRC field from manufacturers.

[tbtstt]

Some great points raised in the thread!

I can't think of anything worse than having cars that are basic? What would be the point of that? In terms of technology, they're pretty basic as it is; especially compared to a LMP1 car, or F1. 1.6T 4WD is hardly cutting edge, is it?

Outwardly no, but considering that the little (restricted) 1.6T cars can beat the times of the unrestricted power houses of the 80's there has obviously been some development there. Of course in the eyes of the layman it's not a massive evolution, especially as some of the current cars look pretty tame.

Is it enough to keep the current fans happy? Or should they try harder to gain more fans?

Both; though the latter should not come at the expense of the former. Stupid gimmicks and rules are not the way to bring younger fans in, properly conveying the sport we have is.

Both WRC events this year have been very good; fantastic in the case of Sweden. Yet, away from this forum, there wasn't huge interest. I went on quite a few Motorsport forums/ sites, and you were lucky to get 2 pages of comments. Yet, McLaren unveiled their new F1 car and hundreds of comments......

Fully agreed. Formula 1 has (and, once again, I'm not trying to offend anyone!) always been the preferred motorsport of the casual motorsport fan. It has always been the "jewel in the crown" for the FiA and it is the motorsport they both fund and promote most heavily, even when they have far better motorsports under their wing.

I have a few friends who are F1 fans and some of them have never even watched another type of motorsport. They believe F1 is the only motorsport worth following as "it's the best" (such is the power of advertising I guess). I find it immensely frustrating as modern F1 is dreadfully dull and, in my opinion, I can't think of many disciplines that are a poorer representation of what motorsport should be (I digress though!).

The Promoters, and everybody, especially the teams need to do more to get the message out there. If you want an example; look at Nissan. That's how to promote your Motorsport programme!!

Others have touched on it in this thread - and forgive me for drifting off topic slightly - but the WEC is (in my opinion) the best thing the FiA have done the last couple of years. Maximum kudos to whoever penned the regulations, as they now have four teams in the premier class with four completely different approaches to the same rule book. It remains to be seen if the fourth approach (Nissan) is as competitive, but I doubt they'd have taken the project this far if it wasn't quick.

Maybe events need looking at; they're all far too similar.

I agree, but the current events we have are sadly a by-product of the age we live in: Health & Safety and costs are both such major factors, that I think the choice of suitable locations has been drastically reduced.

I miss the Safari rally, but its no secret that rally was stupidly expensive to compete in.

2006: Active front and rear differentials and water injection banned.
2008: Mousse tyres banned.
2011: No central differential.

What I would like to see about the cars is to have the weight distribution in more the way that they have use more the Scandinavian / Nordic flick.

Perhaps locked rear diffs (McRae style) could be the way forward? As you say though, a lot of the technology has been removed over the last few years. Compare an onboard from a late 2.0L WRCar with that from a current 1.6L car and you can see the driver is working harder. The cars look far less planted from the outside as well.

It's possibly a coincidence, but removing the timing information from the cars this year seems to have been a good move. Two rallies now where, as others have already said, the result has been decided in the final stage and lead drivers have been split by seconds, not minutes.

I don't even see that much wrong in the WRC concept as it is. Sure, there are some stupid rules and shit...but in general things are good - we have 4 (well actually 3 but anyways...) factory teams, soon to be joined by Toyota. The competition is good (the last rally had 3 drivers gunning for the win on the last stage!), sure the best team/driver combination is usually winning but hasn't this always been the case?

Fully agreed. The basic concept is fine and the last thing it needs is more stupid rules or gimmicks to make it more palatable for the casual audience.

In the much heralded Group B times we usually had what, 10 or even less top class entries per rally, the differences where almost always minutes not seconds (sometimes even hours in Safari Rally), cars broke down all the time meaning often the winner was not fastest or best driver but a one reasonably fast who's car didn't break down. And guess what? Most of the times the best team/driver still won the majority of events. Audi won pretty much every time (especially on gravel) in the late Group 4 /early Group B times if it didn't break down. Peugeot and Lancia pretty much took rest of the wins (sans the African events) till the end of Group B.

Hear hear. There is no question that Group B was an incredible period of technical innovation, and the cars were truly monsters, but (referring back to my original post in the thread) it was not the greatest overall era of the sport in my opinion.

[stefanvv]

Locked rear diffs? This would be quite funny, spectacle nonetheless.