S2000 & Group N, The future of rallying?

[Viktory]

I really hop the new cars will be completely different from what S2000 are....because they´re quite boring to watch, when compared to WRC cars!

I was of the same opinion at first, but after spectating in Sweden, and seeing Patrik Sandell in the Peugeot S2000 I've changed my mind. Sandell was the driver I was most looking forward to seeing of the whole field. The sound and attack of his driving was amazing to see. I agree though that as the S2000 regulations are now, we will pretty much get a field of very similar cars which is not very fun.

[urabus-denoS2000]

This sounds interesting.

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/...shi/index.html

It says something about Mitsubishi coimg back to the WRC,although my german is not very good.
So now comes the usual question:
Can someone translate?

[BDunnell]

I would like to see a variety of different configurations- it can get boring listening to the same 'strangled fart' sound. At Epynt yesterday there were all kinds of engines and sounds. It would be nice if the WRC was ike this.
I'd like to go further though and see a variety of transmission configurations, i;e 4WD, FWD, RWD. So a 4WD car would have les power than FWD/RWD, but obviously superior traction. Whereas a FWD/RWD would have a lot more power but less traction. But I know this won't happen- it was remembering Ragnotti against the Lancia Deltas in Portugal in 1987 got me thinking.

That's always at the forefront of my mind too (as I keep going on about, endlessly). Remember the 1987 Manx International? If not, try and find a video of it. It's another classic example of the same thing.

[BDunnell]

In my mind that was one of the stengths of the WRC - all the different variables - cars and tyres for gravel, some for tarmac, same with drivers; on Tar specialists would come into the team, on snow Eriksson, Jonsson, Radstrom, etc. I seem to remember somebody high up saying the teams having specialists wasn't good because you wouldn't get that in F1- i;e bringing in a driver for a certain circuit. So what WRC is not F1, thank goodness, that's half the problem now- changes made to make it F1 like.

Yes, around 1995-97 it was great. Of course, it used to be even more varied. Look at the fastest times Roger Clark set on the 1981 RAC. He was well past his prime by then, but they all occurred in his favourite Welsh forests; a whole string of fastest times, against Mikkola, Vatanen, Airikkala, etc. Nowadays, how many different drivers set fastest times in a single WRC event? Hardly any.

The tremendous battles in the old British Open Championship also provide good examples. Manta 400s used to be able to keep up with, and beat, Quattros. Why? Because the Opel Dealer Teams prepared them brilliantly, the drivers were excellent, and an element of local knowledge came into it. Bertie Fisher's scrap against Stig Blomqvist on the Ulster International in 1983 sums this up.

It's really the lack of variety in the plans for the WRC that concern me. Yes, it will be possible (hopefully) for more drivers and manufacturers to win, but their cars will all have to be the same. The problem, of course, is that the rules under which rallying was at its best in my opinion were not sufficiently 'tight' to be able to restrict further development, which led first to the Group B monsters of 1985-6 that were unsustainable, and then the WRCs of today. What's the way to stop this happening again with the next set of rules?

[OldF]

This sounds interesting.

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/...shi/index.html

It says something about Mitsubishi coimg back to the WRC,although my german is not very good.
So now comes the usual question:
Can someone translate?

Translated with: http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/tr


Door opener for Mitsubishi? The new technical rules of the Rallye world championship could up-push also for Mitsubishi the doors for a return to the Topliga. RETURN POSSIBLE: Mitsubishi could start in the future with a N+ in the WRC It prevails to departure tendency. At the end of March wants the FIA over important changes of rule in the Rallye WM to advise and could the way for new manufacturers to open. 2009 is already in-braked World Rally Cars and Super-2000-Autos with a turbo-kit certified. Starting from 2011 only the rigged S2000-Fahrzeuge becomes certified, however under the well-known names "WRC". For the armament of the Super2000 only about 30 per cent of additional parts should be necessary, the change takes maximally 48 hours. If a current Super2000 in full equipment costs about 250,000 euro, the new World Rally Cars is not to become more expensive than 300,000 euro, whereby the turbo-kit with approximately 50,000 euro is to show in the books and a drive with approximately 30,000 euro, strengthened by the increased torque, will have to be had. By these changes of rule also Mitsubishi could become again a WM candidate beside Fiats. According to Fiat haven boss Claudio Berro plans the FIA likewise to permit group cars like the new Lancer Evo X with an armament kit (likewise about 30 per cent of new parts) for the future WRC class. Mitsubishi Sportchef Isao Torii signaled already on the IAA in past September that its enterprise under these circumstances had large interest in a return to the WM.

[grugsticles]

Translated with: http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/tr


Door opener for Mitsubishi? The new technical rules of the Rallye world championship could up-push also for Mitsubishi the doors for a return to the Topliga. RETURN POSSIBLE: Mitsubishi could start in the future with a N+ in the WRC It prevails to departure tendency. At the end of March wants the FIA over important changes of rule in the Rallye WM to advise and could the way for new manufacturers to open. 2009 is already in-braked World Rally Cars and Super-2000-Autos with a turbo-kit certified. Starting from 2011 only the rigged S2000-Fahrzeuge becomes certified, however under the well-known names "WRC". For the armament of the Super2000 only about 30 per cent of additional parts should be necessary, the change takes maximally 48 hours. If a current Super2000 in full equipment costs about 250,000 euro, the new World Rally Cars is not to become more expensive than 300,000 euro, whereby the turbo-kit with approximately 50,000 euro is to show in the books and a drive with approximately 30,000 euro, strengthened by the increased torque, will have to be had. By these changes of rule also Mitsubishi could become again a WM candidate beside Fiats. According to Fiat haven boss Claudio Berro plans the FIA likewise to permit group cars like the new Lancer Evo X with an armament kit (likewise about 30 per cent of new parts) for the future WRC class. Mitsubishi Sportchef Isao Torii signaled already on the IAA in past September that its enterprise under these circumstances had large interest in a return to the WM.

Translation - my arse!
LOL, i still have trouble understanding it:P

[OldF]

Translation - my arse!
LOL, i still have trouble understanding it:P

What’s the problem, most of the words are in English. I didn’t claim that it was a translation,
it was translated with http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/

[grugsticles]

Yeah, I know. Just joking.

[bstrat]

Punto S2000 rules (I love that sound too !)
Also the Pug S2000 is a great car, funny to watch already now. Think about next years... when the speed bar will be raised.

It would be bad if Ford Citroen Subaru Suzuki won't develop a S2000 and quit. Then the change is not good. But all of these 4 plus the new manus, more cars, better
Gr. N sucks I must agree.

Well I hope this all works out. I am not sure if anybody has answerd this but I only disscoverd it today. Hopefully they can work out a way of using S2000 cars. I think that they should make different rules so they don't all sound or drive the same etheir, what just about everyone on this forum is saying. I know that over in Australia Ford made a Feista S2000. Best sounding rally car in Australia I reckon. It also did sound different to the Toyota Corolla S2000. I guess Citroen could make a C4 S2000. Suzuki could make an S2000 version of their SX4. Subaru could make oine around their new Impreza too. I think it would be good to get turbos in, get different things happening so they don't get boring.

Thats just my two cents.

[OldF]

Well, we know now that the future WRC cars will be based on S2000 and N group cars. My concern is when the power will be restricted to 270 – 280 hp, will the S2000+turbo cars also sound like the N-grp cars nowadays, i.e. boring. The turbo allowed to the S2000 should be the same type they used in the beginning of the 90’s when the cars where spectacular to watch and the revs where higher, although they had a turbo. It would also be nice with an option for a 2,5-3,0 litre NA engine for the manufacturers that prefer a NA prior to a turbo.

What about the N-grp based WRC cars then? I would assume they would have at least more freedom regarding the suspension.