Michael Schumacher and his chokes.

[BDunnell]

But statistics do not explain the relative lack of success for the likes of Moss, Villeneuve(G) and Peterson who all won races but no titles. They also do not explain how someone as talented as Chris Amon never won a GP.

Equally Senna & Prost have 7 WDC's and 92 GP wins between them, which is almost exactly the totals MS has achieved alone. Jim Clark has a "paltry" 2 WDC's and 25 wins. All of those drivers are recognised greats, and yet if you just look at the statistics there are huge differences between their numbers.

If anyone seeks to disagree with that, I don't think their views stand up to much scrutiny or consideration.

Is Damon Hill, a one-time world champion, a better driver than Stirling Moss, a no-time World Champion? On balance, I wouldn't say so, yet I don't feel it's possible to compare them because they competed in such different eras, just as the inevitable Fangio/Schumacher comparisons are invariably simplistic and pointless.

[passmeatissue]

And none of those drivers mentioned ever choked anywhere close to how LH choked while being on the cusp of a wdc--

Michael, Adelaide 1994. Into the wall all on his own while leading. Choker!

[ArrowsFA1]

JV was not much worse than him.

Yeah, IIRC he won 4 GP's in his rookie year too.

[SGWilko]

Michael, Adelaide 1994. Into the wall all on his own while leading. Choker!

All these chokers, why aren't tunes a major sponsor in F1?

After all, Tunes help you breathe more easily............. groan!

I also seem to remember Schumi put the Ferrari in the armco at Monaco one year at the start of a race while leading in the damp...........

So, everyone makes mistakes, not just the rookies.

[ioan]

Michael, Adelaide 1994. Into the wall all on his own while leading. Choker!

I doubt he was leading the championship by 17 or even 7 points at that moment, and that explains why he was pushing hard as he had to win the race to get the title.

Pushing hard because you have to win and clipping the wall in the process =/= running of track at the pit entry or pushing the wrong button while having a massive lead in the championship standings. :

But don't let facts get in the way of your bias.

[passmeatissue]

I'm sure you meant Shanghai, not Fuji.
But as I said before don't let the facts get in the way of the bias, better yet don't even care if your facts are right or not, you would risk becoming another serious forumer.

Shanghai, yes, OK. My mistake.

MS didn't "clip the wall" in Adelaide he slid off the outside of the corner into it. Your mistake.

And so?

[janneppi]

Here's the just place for your stupid little jabs about former drivers.

[BDunnell]

janneppi, can I say that I object to it looking like my post started this thread in some way? I have no desire to be the beginning of a thread bashing former drivers pointlessly.

In addition, the History and Nostalgia forum is refreshingly free from stuff like this, and I feel it should stay that way. It's generally a bastion of enjoyable discussion, free of the usual partisan rubbish.

[passmeatissue]

janneppi, can I say that I object to it looking like my post started this thread in some way? I have no desire to be the beginning of a thread bashing former drivers pointlessly.

In addition, the History and Nostalgia forum is refreshingly free from stuff like this, and I feel it should stay that way. It's generally a bastion of enjoyable discussion, free of the usual partisan rubbish.

Use one of mine if you like, it looks like my contradiction of markabilly's "choker" thing about LH came across as slagging off MS, which I didn't mean. I meant, MS is obviously not a choker, rather the most winning driver ever, but even he did have a nervy choke moment, so just meaning "shut up about LH being a choker, markabilly". Didn't make myself clear.

Or delete all the posts, might be better.

[janneppi]

janneppi, can I say that I object to it looking like my post started this thread in some way? I have no desire to be the beginning of a thread bashing former drivers pointlessly.

In addition, the History and Nostalgia forum is refreshingly free from stuff like this, and I feel it should stay that way. It's generally a bastion of enjoyable discussion, free of the usual partisan rubbish.

Yeah, sorry about that, your post got in by accident.
I was rather fed up with the way the thread went and just selected few post from the last page, I kinda hoped you didn't notice me screwing up with your post. .

In addition I always thought history side was more dead than bastion of enjoyable discussion because it has very few posts, probably because it's not that interesting to most. Plus discussion about MS's racing history, controversial as it might be, belongs here.